Previous in Forum: Deformation After Machining Cast Stainless Steel   Next in Forum: Pitting on the Hardest Surfaces
Close
Close
Close
9 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 1° North Singapore
Posts: 568
Good Answers: 17

Toyota PSD System

12/25/2013 7:27 PM

Merry Christmas to all !!

Toyota Prius Power Split Device (PSD) is a super clever transmission system , combining ICE/motor drive, CVT transmission, power generation, engine starting into one neat package.

In the PSD system, http://www.eahart.com/prius/psd/, MG1 varies speed to achieve CVT. Does anyone know how much power is input to vary the output speed/power? My guess is the MG1 power input will vary with the power output, anyone know the mathematical relation ? Thanks in advance.

__________________
Sharing knowledge is one thing that defies basic arithmetic logic --- the more you share, the more you get!
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#1

Re: Toyota PSD System

12/26/2013 9:55 PM

Without knowing what the program does, I think the only thing we can say is

POUT = PMG1 + PMG2 + PICE.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 1° North Singapore
Posts: 568
Good Answers: 17
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Toyota PSD System

12/27/2013 10:14 AM

I think my more pertinent question is, what is the speed/torque relation between the ICE input the control input at MG1 to achieve variable transmission ratio.

Usual text book analysis of planetary gear is based on locking one of the gear, either sun gear, Ring gear or the carrier.

I was thinking, if the torque required at the sun gear is not high, you can have a very high torque, low friction CVT, with ICE running at diffrent power level but at the most efficient RPM range. The car will speed up and down by driving the sun gear using a small electric motor with different rpm. We will have 20 km/ liter car!

That's why my question above.

I am hoping someone has some in depth knowledge here.

__________________
Sharing knowledge is one thing that defies basic arithmetic logic --- the more you share, the more you get!
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: OHIO, tri-State design and installation, and travel nationally and consults also are international
Posts: 274
#2

Re: Toyota PSD System

12/27/2013 8:42 AM

Very Merry Christmas hope you had and a Happiest New Year !

found a few other explanations searching

http://www.info.com/search?qkw=MG1+power+input+will+vary+with+the+power+output&qcat=web

__________________
Simply choose your utility supplier contracting WITHOUT BROKERS and opt-out of community aggregations for free choices.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 6215
Good Answers: 248
#4

Re: Toyota PSD System

12/27/2013 12:57 PM

I have no answer to your question, but want to thank you for posting the question and the link. ... and thanks to others for posting additional links.

I'm seriously considering getting a Prius, or possibly another hybrid, and want to learn as much as possible before making a final decision.

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Toyota PSD System

12/28/2013 11:38 AM

I drove a friends Insight for awhile. Using a very light foot and all the usual conservation measures yielded about 43-45 mpg below 65 mph on a level road, could still get 30-35 in the city. Friend got 25% less because of heavy foot, as the EPA sticker says "...your mileage will vary..."

My son has a Chevy Volt, I thought he was foolish for not getting a hybrid. Turns out his driving habits work out perfectly for 99% battery power, <30 miles to work where he recharges, most trips are short so the battery does all the work. Last check he had gone nearly 1,800 miles on less than 3 gallons of gas, the mpg is impressive.

His electric bill did go up about 80 kWh/mo since he got it, roughly 4-5 miles/kWh, but part of the kWh (which the onboard computer tracks) is the "free" charging offered by many businesses in his area in MA. And yes, he stopped "plugging in" to random outlets once that guy got arrested for "stealing" a nickel's worth of electricity!

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 6215
Good Answers: 248
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Toyota PSD System

12/28/2013 12:22 PM

Thanks!

I commonly work at home, but when I do drive, it's rarely less than 50 mi. each way. It's a 2000 ft. climb on the way home. Few pure electrics can handle that!

I have a nephew who has had a Tesla (which could handle the trip easily) for about 8 months and loves it. I rode in it and was duly impressed, but it's not quite within my budget just yet...

80 KWh is around $10, which cost is roughly equivalent to another 3 gallons of gas. 1,800 mi on 6 gallons of gas is 300 mpg. Not bad!

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Toyota PSD System

12/28/2013 2:09 PM

The Volt is pretty peppy and the electronics do a pretty good job of balancing the battery output against the mechanical load. Your hill climb is one of the few events when the gas motor would direct its power directly to the wheels, but only after the computer figured out that the combined battery and generator output wasn't enough to maintain the speed uphill, best part is you reclaim most of that energy on the way back down.

Also, you need to burn gas anyway, the computer keeps track of the age of the fuel in the tank and will force the engine to run to burn it off to keep its average age under 3-6 months.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Placerville, CA (38° 45N, 120° 47'W)
Posts: 6215
Good Answers: 248
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Toyota PSD System

12/28/2013 4:13 PM

Thanks! You made me investigate the Volt further. It's awfully similar to the Prius power train. I suspect that the motor does not directly power the wheels to avoid patent problems with Prius.

I'd love to be able to buy a car made in USA!

That little detail of aging fuel had not occurred to me, but of course my driving distances would pretty much take care of that...

__________________
Teaching is a great experience, but there is no better teacher than experience.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Toyota PSD System

12/30/2013 10:20 AM

It does directly power the wheels through a gearing and clutch arrangement. There's a whole bunch of sometimes conflicting articles on the web, but from personal experience it's totally transparent to the user except for the sound of the engine. Of course the mpg drops to about 45mpg for long hauls.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 9 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

bravo88 (1); dkwarner (3); JP76 (1); RAMConsult (3); Tornado (1)

Previous in Forum: Deformation After Machining Cast Stainless Steel   Next in Forum: Pitting on the Hardest Surfaces

Advertisement