Milling Lumber--Green or Dry?

They might not still be green, but logs are often kept wet, in millponds or by sprinkler systems.

You haven't told us when the logs were cut. (Felled, if you are a stickler) That matters.

Mill them. Period. Waiting won't buy you much. And it'll take forever to dry.

Saw it.

Stack it off the ground, with plenty of support and room for ventilation. I'd say an inch space from all surfaces is minimum.

Dry till the moisture content is below about 15% if used outside, about 10% if used indoors.

It WILL warp. That's why you leave it oversize and plane it.

Good Luck!

Hard woods should be kept wet, yards in mills usually have sprinkler systems in their lots. In soft woods green pine, the biggest thing you have is the pitch. The hard woods, such as Ash, if you let them dry out. There is a lot of internal stress, with the end of the logs being dried out, that will pinch the blade (even with a splitter) when you saw them

Or it will pinch the splitter tight where you have to saw off part of the board........ A lot of waste.

And if it's one of those one man band saw mills... It will be a struggle.

Thanks for the recommendations and questions. The trees were felled about 5 weeks ago. I also have another 5 southern pines (loblolly and short leaf), about 80 ft tall and 12" to 20" diameter at the butt, that I will be felling and taking to the miller soon. The local miller said he will split the sawn lumber with me, with a little chipped in for blades. I think that is a reasonable deal. The hard part is getting the logs on the trailer!

I have been delaying cutting the trees until the winter to let the sap fall. I have read that doing so slightly decreases the weight of the logs and, more importantly, decreases the bluing (from mildew) that occurs in the pine. It is also a lot easier for me to work outside in the winter in south Louisiana than the summer!

Thanks,

Don

Yellow or Jack pine has stress in them, white pine are easier to cut. (These are usually what the CCC planted in the 30's.

Normally, as least we do, we'll log in the winter and cut them in the spring. But then again, we're in the northern states.

The split is not that bad a deal, but with 12" at the trunk........ that's not very big., but you'll still get material.

Also as long as you didn't get the trees in your back yard or a fence line........ where there'll be nails or wire in them

It is easier on your tools to process wood when cut green, BUT problem is dimensions WILL change while drying, i.e. will shrink. Even worse, they will NOT shrink symmetrically on all axes, it depends on grain orientation and distance from center of the log core, and of course not all tree types are the same. So your choice is about how demanding is your application on final dimension accuracy. S.M.

You should be asking your sawyer this question, being its his equipment and he has the experience with his equipment. Green is easier on the equipment and the logs have less tendency to split due to drying out. I preferred my band saw over a circular blade, less waste, saw dust and noise

Actually, I did ask the sawyer about any difference in cutting green or seasoned logs and he said it did not matter. But, he seems to be in the minority with that opinion. Almost everyone else tells me that milling green logs is easier cutting and less wear on the blades and machinery. It doesn't matter a lot to me except I will be sharing in the costs of blades, upon his request. Maybe that is why he made the request......because he goes through more blades due to cutting drier logs??? With me supplying the logs and he doing the milling, we agreed to divide the lumber 50/50.

We will be using the 2 X 6X 12ft lumber to frame my son's 34' X 40' pole barn garage/workshop. He wants to use the 2 X's for studs between the poles. I think it will be fine to stack and stick the pine lumber for a couple of dry winter months prior to framing.

Thanks,

Don

Jon, you brought up my next question for the OP, "Doesn't your guy have a band blade sharpener?" And if he does, does he know how to properly use it? Dull blades will cause a lot of hearts-aches for both operator and equipment.

I, too, have been in the business for more than 30 years as an engineer in the sawmill game.

However, I think we may have been in vastly different sawmill environments. It sounds like you are from the hardwood side of milling, where I have spent my time in the softwoods of BC, Canada. Where we convert a 20" log to a river of 2" lumber in about 2 seconds per 16' average log. 12,000 logs per shift.

I don't think hardwood mills have the same high volume focus.

The epidemic of bug kill here caused mills to have to operate on dead standing trees so old the bark was falling off. Lumber recovery fell way off with the dry split logs.

I guess in LA the stain issue can be a problem. Even if the lumber is stickered or dry piled the weather probably won't allow it to dry fast enough to prevent stain? A heated dry kiln is probably out of the question for the small amount of lumber in discussion.

The OP deserves to know about the possibilities of how his deal can be skewed if he does not know some of the details to watch out for. Not negative, just stating some facts.

I hope he ends up with a good, fair deal and does make a friend.

Jon.

It's interesting to know, what type of mill this is, I can only speculate with the low number of logs, that this bandsaw mill is a smaller mill, and possible one of the one man mills. Where it is more labor intensive.

I run a full automatic circle mill in New England mainly sawing white pine and red oak

the variables are the same ,if a big mill was so gracious to handle a couple of logs from a neighbor good for them ,most likely it's a manually operated band mill that a guy does in his spare time.Either way the conversation had gone from being informative to accusatory ( I was not singling anyone out )as it generally does on this forum .I rarely participate as I get tired of a bunch of washed out propeller heads probing for an opportunity to attack someone for a spelling error or god forbid a new idea .

I remember when I proposed the transfer of electricity without wires I got a taste of what Tesla must have experienced .Then shortly after MIT revealed significant break through's in exactly what I proposed .

I try to take a positive view of all ideas ,our country would be in the stone age if nay sayers had the loudest voice .

Good idea about winching the logs up and pulling under the log. My son came up with the same idea but we didn't have a convenient tree to use. We used our towable backhoe to lift the logs on the back of the trailer and then we used a 4 wheeler winch to pull the logs the rest of the way. It worked pretty good. I have several other big pines that I will cut soon. I am considering installing a hinged frame (inverted U-shape) midship on the trailer that I can attach a cable to. The cable would run to a winch at the front and to the log in the rear. As the cable is pulled, the frame rises, provides lift and pulls the log up and onto the trailer. I think it'll work OK and it is something I can do by myself.

Thanks,

Don

Get your band saws to be stellitte tipped,then your problems are solved,cutting wet or dry.

I only saw smallish stuff so I have limited knowledge... but IMO.
It's swings and roundabouts. A few months isn't going to make much difference to a log!
It's more important with some woods like Oak which is a joy to work green but hard as nails once fully seasoned... but like I said your logs won't be seasoned in 2 months!
There is no way you can second guess how the wood will move twist, shrink or split. Just rough it out well oversize. Season it for a year or so then get it cut to finished size.
That depends on the final use... if it's just fence posts then go for it, 'cos no one cares about the finish or exact dimension (well except for some daft city slicker garden design consultant with more money than sense, in which case you tell him they are authentic "rustic" and quadruple the price)

Del

I do think the 50/50 sharing of lumber is a good deal. And, I am looking forward to meeting the sawyer; I spoke with him on the phone and he sounds like a nice, honest guy.

I told my son I thought that after the lumber dries for about 2 months (he won't be ready to install them until then) we can probably put in the studs with some blocking and, even though the wood 2" X 6" X 12' studs will still be on the green side, they should be OK. Of course, we will stack them with stickers and provide ventilation.

We are also sending the sawyer a couple of 8" sycamore logs. I am anxious to see the grain and how it dries; I hope to be able to make some furniture and picture frames with it. Unlike the pine, I will probably have to air dry the sycamore about a year/inch thickness. There is a lot of moisture in it!

There are a lot of different types of trees within the two basic characteristic categories, hardwood and softwood, and softwoods are not neccessarily soft, nor hardwoods, hard. Balsa is a hardwood.

Each of these types of wood will have a different milling characteristic and affect the blades accordingly. Some will be tough on the blades and require special blade tips, others will cut like butter. Some timbers when cut when dry, will require a lubricant at the blade/timber interface. Sometimes diesel is used. Whichever the type, or state of the timber, the cutting should not be a problem. Incidentally, timbers with a high silicon content will cause blade problems, whether green or dry.

Should you cut green or dry?

To leave the log until it is dry, can result in sap-stain in some species (and possible rot pockets). Years ago, after a large storm, windblow pinus radiata timber was left for months before extraction from the forest, After exporting it to Japan, the logs were nick-named blue-pine because of the sap-stain colour. It will also take a long time for the log to dry out.

Milling soon after logging, gives two benefits, one being that you can control the drying, and the other is that you can control the distortion that can occur as the timber dries.

All timbers will have some stress built up in the growing tree and when milled, these stresses will result in warping and bending. Suitable stacking (and sometimes weights on the tops of the stacks) will control this.

The method of stacking, will also control the rate of drying. Some timbers require a slow drying rate so that the internal stresses (sometimes referred to as "honey-combing") are kept to a minimum during the process. Others can be allowed to dry as fast as possible. Stacked, milled timber will dry a LOT faster than in log form.

These comments relate to both air drying and to kiln drying.

v

Sawing the logs while green is the best while keeping them clean from dirt sand and stones will also help on the sawing. One thing I have yet to see on this thread is once they are stickered and set to dry take and make sure they don't get direct sunlight this will increase the chance of warping and also coat the ends of each plank and up the sides about 2 inches this keeps the ends from cracking and checking. After growing up in a sawmill family I have seen first hand what happens when you don't coat the ends you sometimes lose a lot of lumber this way. coating the ends allows the wood to through the sides and not check and crack through the ends. we used to use a 50/50 mix of beeswax and linseed oil which worked pretty well, there are also products out on the market like (ANCHOR SEAL)