Hot Water Heating Efficiency Heat Recovery Cooling

It must be me, I can never translate your posts into any continuum of thought.

Your always pushing heat pumps, and related technologies, that in northern climes are expensive to implement, as they require multiple heat exchangers to go from earth coupled liquid exchanger to refrigerant to air or domestic water. They are a nice idea, but have initial installation expense, and long term maintenance expenses.

Hence they never pay for the added complexity with energy savings at current energy costs.

"as they require multiple heat exchangers to go from earth coupled liquid exchanger to refrigerant to air or domestic water. They are a nice idea"

my idea of some 'nice idea' would be something practical and usable...

Thank you for the opinion.

in zones 5 and 6's of the northern states: of 6600-7200 degree days over the DepNatResources tempered lines of 50f-55f, we have found something very usable-

1) long lasting low maintenance 20-year old heat pumps of both air source, and over 35 years running: water source GTHP's without compressors nor even well pumps - having to be yet changed out.

yes many gas furnaces still needing board and pressure switch and flame and heat limit switches replacements, and igniters and thermocouples and spark modules have been for a lot of bread and butter income for many many years now-

About Air and Water-source Heat Pumps that I experience:

Plumbers among the 70+ dealers and known only about 8 successful engineers familiar with low temperature differential (2 to 5 deg-f) heat exchanges have been the best designers of such systems, I have found since 1980.

Like the double exchanges of all chillers to towers and ambient conditions, yes the ground has its own similarity to that - and as hud has declared GTHP "least 7 yr investment over any other HVAC". (ARKANSAS simple - contractor's magz, 2004 Aug publication #18)

AIRSOURCE-HP? We shut them down at ~ 15 to 22f depending on the manufacturer who uses over-sized "evaporators"- outdoor coils more appropriate for ambient conditions, in for the heating mode of operation.

Maintenance director over the 1993 4-ton offices GTHP install using 'waste'-85f water for both Cooling mode and Heating mode source of heat exchange stated in 2008 "The ONLY system in three buildings not requiring more than air filters among all the RTU's inclusive. Even the bronze grundfos 1/6 hp whipping through the heat exchanger all the while is still in operation with that complete same compressor, system: one new blower motor and a compressor relay-contactor, and thermostat... to date.

That circulator speeds water across the then 'condenser' in air-cooling modes to lower the condenser-head pressures in cooling as only 2.1/2 GPM of the 'waste'85f water is available from a fiberglass tank cycle testing hydraulic system that is cooled by the water then sent to the GTHP. The water out of the GTHP goes to the STEAMING-constant-evaporating-water vat process that is used in speeding the epoxy cures.

ROI: They claimed under a 2 year ROI on the then $12,000+ investment, performance guaranteed.

Why don't you just reference the website?

Chartered Institution of Building Services Engineers
Your incoherent ramblings do nothing except to make a complete joke out of the website and the professionals who may actually be members.
Or, at the very least move this gibberish to the Commercial Section.

Please explain your questions and points of misunderstanding, just like any professional does.

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Lyn it seems you find websites, as in another reply , that shows you do not read them either...

2) ONLY looking for the experienced designer and/or some installer commentary without any discussion about near grade ground-loop geothermal:

2b) Just use of any that are designed for 100% on demand (and INSTANT HW) HW that are in use already as heat recovery HW heaters adn do dehumidification and cooling of the air as vertical and horizontal and console air handlers ? - and possibly on or about systems of the referenced site above?.

It is OK L:

I did find others who professionally are using the "off-the-shelf" geothermal water-source heat-pumps WITHOUT ground loops nor wells, for exactly what I asked about

(OP) those doing hybrid Hot Water heating WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY cooling , say a restaurant or facility dehumidification within a central core of larger buildings,

and beyond belief!

But thanks anyways for an effort in a respnse...

(! - for a moment, reading you,...as I first was led on the 'solid responses' to seemingly then -not-be-understood, --as I see a few fearfully support such of your slambatious commentary (oh well), instead of objectively questioning the OP, with some similtude of reasoning, at least expected-- (please) )

those doing hybrid Hot Water heating WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY cooling , say a restaurant or facility core of larger buildings, are also doing more so like that and are , because, in the 2: for one work off a single compressor (cold:hot, using both side at once) - the savings in Hot Water heating and Cooling result in COP's of high 6's : or SEER's beyond the 50's, EER's in the 50's, technically -

Greeting: Happy Days, wished to all !

Noted: I was reading at a website-

http://www.cibse.org/content/Events/Chris/SoPHE%20NW%20HW%20Sizing%20Presentation.pdf

that site was about Hot Water Heating Efficiencies and methods - and a little solar, too- with "sustainable energy inputs" resulting in

better efficiencies , etc.

then a question:

Are there any existing examples of a design that a respondee HAS DONE, as in designing or installation and tracking results that could give readers some reasonable understanding about the "efficiencies" of solar pre-heated or heated hot water - from say ROI to maintenance and replacement parts costs about SOLAR?

or

the same ABOUT USING the disabsorption of recovered heat of rejection from also, say, a chiller or air-conditioner or heat-pump condenser which may be used as for

instant temperature controlled Hot Water heating in a reclaim-mode of operation?

(not just common stand-up HW heaters as heat pump water heaters, but in reclaimed/recovered heating for Hot Water heating as a priority; and perhaps having a cooling or dehumidifying result as not the priority, but just as the by product, then...?)

Requested as being for ON TOPIC:

"that you have done, have designed and implemented" ?

Has anyone else, other than the 70+ DEALERS regarding equipment that does this off the shelf, and 5 distributors ,too, and about a dozen OEM's, also, - who have, ever- then , has anyone else tracked their designs of Priority HW heat-recovered in practice? Searching CR4 in heat pump HW is a distant read of what direct SOLAR or larger systemic chiller-heat-recovery, HW Priority that I am interested in seeing more use of/about/ ...

Has anyone used off the shelf GTHP for demand HW? Any use of like systems of GTHP-HW-Priority from the geothermal manufacturers who successfully produce forced air console, or vertical, or horizontal units with on-demand hot water heat recovery priority systems (not just deSuperheaters, nor just water to water GTHP units)?

looking for the "have designed and implemented" or useful questions...

expecting entertaining unrelated-to=inexperienced commentary... also

Thank you for all the fun!