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Associate

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 49

Permanent Star and Energy Savings

01/29/2014 3:47 AM

Dear all,

i recently read that if motor runs at a contant load of 40% and below, its terminals can be connected in permanent star and so it will give savings. Also other benefits like like improvement in the load factor etc.

My question is " on what basis is the limit 40% loading decided" ???? any technical reason , calculation???

why motors running above 40% load cannot be run in permanent star mode (terminals connected in permanent star) and if so what bad effects will it cause.

Your suggestions will be highly appreciated.

Regards,

Rooney

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Guru
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#1

Re: Permanent Star and Energy Savings

01/29/2014 3:54 AM

Why can't you fit the correct sized motor? You will make savings then.

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Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

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#2

Re: Permanent Star and Energy Savings

01/29/2014 4:09 AM

Savings: how about carrying out an energy consumption audit at the facility instead of worrying solely about one wrongly-sized motor?

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Associate

Join Date: May 2007
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#3

Re: Permanent Star and Energy Savings

01/29/2014 8:22 AM

Rooney ,

we know that the torque in a fixed frequency follows the square of the voltage, so at the effective 57.7% voltage in star connection the torque will be 0.5772, or 33.33 %.

If you running above this limit motor will probably be overloaded .

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Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Permanent Star and Energy Savings

01/29/2014 10:24 PM

It is PEAK torque that varies by the square of the voltage reduction, running torque is more or less linear with a slight drop in torque as the voltage is reduced. But you really cannot factor that in anyway unless by some miracle, your load never needs to accelerate. Think of motor torque as having two components; steady state torque and accelerating torque. You ALWAYS need steady state torque, but you only need accelerating torque when you first start the load, and if you have to RE-accelerate the load. Accelerating torque then is ADDITIONAL torque needed above and beyond the steady state torque, and that is the PEAK torque that we are talking about, the torque that gets drastically reduced when voltage is reduced.

When you have a PERFECTLY steady load, all you need is steady state torque. But if there is EVER a step CHANGE increase in the load, you need MORE torque, that PEAK torque. It works kind of like this: Load is increased, the motor slows down, fewer lines of magnetic force are cut in the rotor and stator relationship, mutual induction decreases, impedance decreases so current increases, higher current then creates stronger magnetic fields and more torque, the ACCELERATING torque mentioned earlier. The motor then re-accelerates the load back to the steady state, but draws more current as long as the load remains. If, in that process, you lose 67% of the available peak torque, it is going to be the ACCELERATING torque that was needed to react properly to that step change in loading.

So real world...

If you know EVERYTHING that could possibly EVER happen with regard to that motor and the load it is driving and predict EXACTLY the amount of torque that you need, the scheme of changing to Star can possibly offer a very SLIGHT reduction in the magnetic LOSSES that take place in a motor that make it a motor. But follow me closely here, its easy to lose this conceptual train and people jump off this cliff too easily because of it.

So those magnetic losses comprised 25% of the total losses, and if you reduced that loss by 10% by reducing the voltage by connecting in Star, then your losses are only 22.5% and you have reduced the losses BY 2.5%. But that is a percentage of LOSSES, not a percentage of POWER and that's where the mistake often happens. If a motor nameplate says it is 90% efficient, that means 10% of the power is losses. Of that 10% of POWER that is comprised of losses, only 25% is from MAGNETIC losses. So if you have saved 10% of your MAGNETIC losses, you have really only saved 2.5% of the 10% of total power. So that is only .0025, or .25% (1/4 of 1%) of the total power the motor is consuming.

But it is something and something is better than nothing, right? Well, maybe not. Because if there is any increase in load at all, those savings go right out the window if your motor stalls or overloads.

So where can this miraculous stead state highly predictable reduced load happen? In a very SELECT set of circumstances. A pump system that for some reason is now severely over sized compared to the capacity it needs to deliver can be put into Star as opposed to buying a new pump. For some reason, several states in India seem to think that a lot of motors used there on agricultural pumps are grossly over sized, I heard it's because the farmers are poor and the pumps were obtained as surplus from other applications. But because they are poor, they are unable to afford new pumps so they must continue to use them in a highly inefficient manner. So I have seen, from things that friends over there have sent, actual government pamphlets promoting this concept of connecting these motors permanently in Star as a way to reduce some of this gross inefficiency.

Unfortunately, what is being promoted as a specific response to a specific situation, get misinterpreted by other people who are totally unfamiliar with the original issue and over-generalize the information to think, and unfortunately promote, the idea that this will ALWAYS save energy. It does not, and in fact has lead to many many motor failures as a result.

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Power-User

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Permanent Star and Energy Savings

01/29/2014 11:13 PM

You are 100% correct. Motors are designed to run at rated voltage and peak efficiency at or near full load. Therefore, the efficiency of motors running at less than full load will peak at less than rated voltage.

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Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2014
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#6

Re: Permanent Star and Energy Savings

01/30/2014 2:41 AM

Dear Mr. Rooney,

Yes I agree with the statement that low load motors can be operated on STAR - permanently for better efficiency and power savings as well.

Large motors are connected in Star during the starting to reduce inrush current. If the load on the motor is close to 40 % (exact point of optimum load needs to be checked) - it can continue to operate on star without changing to delta.

The motor can continue to operate in start instead on changing it to Delta as load is low. If you go by electrical engineering principles motors normally operate at optimum efficiency if operated near 70% load. Now that the load is only 40% the efficiency of the motor will take a shot. Therefore in start the loading on coils change and motor performs with a better efficiency. How much better is a matter of calculations.

By changing this 40 % load motor on Delta , we shall be developing un neccessary torque which is avoidable.

M.R.Iyengar.

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Power-User

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#7

Re: Permanent Star and Energy Savings

01/30/2014 2:49 AM

When you connect a motor designed for Delta connection in Start - Voltage across each phase group of stator coils is Vph- Vph/√3 (57.7%)

Hence volt per turn of stator winding is 57.7%.

That means flux in the core is 57.7% of designed flux had you been running motor in delta connection.

That means reduction in No Load Losses of motor.

To find out the saving - go to factory test report of motor provided by manufacturer. - note down value of No Load Losses and kW rating of cooling fan. Difference of this is Core losses with Delta Connection.

Eddy current losses are square of flux.

Hysteresis losses are raise to 1.7 power of flux.

Conservative saving in power consumption on star run motor shall be 1- .577^1.7 ≈ 61.54% of core losses.

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Power-User

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Permanent Star and Energy Savings

03/10/2014 5:13 AM

So it will be 1.55% total power reduction if magnetic loss is 25% of total loss & total loss is 10% of total power .More economical than as mentiioned by Jreaf.Am I wrong?

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