Cutting Tree Trunk

Depends on what kind of tree it is, where and how deep the cut will be, and the environment that the tree is in as well as what wound care will be administered, the health of the tree and age....

Just wear headphones, so you don't hear the screams.

When we said that the house should be build on live trees we did not mean to cut into the trunk! There is a lot of other fasteners where you do not need to make a cut!

But then there is the Tree Elves . . .!

I'd ask a professional tree lobber!

Nice, I learned another alternate meaning for 'pith'.

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Just as a note, the cambium is a very thin layer (couple cells thick) that is where growth occurs, forming either xylem (sapwood), phloem, or more cambium. It isn't directly responsible for significant nutrient or water transfer.

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The functional layer that serves to transport food from the leaves is called phloem. It is located exterior to the cambium.

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Water and minerals are for the most part transported up the tree in the xylem (sapwood), which is located just inside the thin cambium layer.

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We have always referred to what you call 'ringing' as 'girdling' a tree. Many people don't realize that girdling a tree kills it by killing everything below the ring first.

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There are some 'trees' that are immune to girdling. Palm trees are a good example.

Yes, thanks for the clarification.

I have found this before reading truths comment.

but to follow up with Lyn's most excellent post and tisnac , Girdling is how to kill a tree.

My dad lectured me about not 'girdling trees' in our front yard when I was about 5 years old......

We used to girdle our apple and peach trees all the time. Best fruit ever.

Yes, on our apple orchard that's what you do, but not on the Maple tree in the front yard.

Red maples are like weeds. We used to cut them down and within a month or two we had clumps coming back up. So we ended up using herbicides to finish them off.

silver poplar worse, their leader roots are spread all over, and new shoots come up all the time.

We girdled our maple tree in our front yard about r years ago. so we could plant an apple tree, (Cortland). with about 8 trees in our backyard of different varieties

We one of our neighbors who Sheila does not get along with reported us, had the village send us a nasty letter, stated their going to fined us because those trees are supposed to protect the road way./??????/

When they stopped over and saw that an Apple tree was in its place, they just apologized for disturbing us....... (not the first time we were reported from this neighbor).

We did leave a small stump after the tree died and cut the tree down the following year, and every year since the stump gets real bushy from the new shoots, this year I may put herbicide on it.

Anyways, from the apple trees we planted, last year on the we had blossoms, and frankly, I can't wait.

I can't tell how many red maples I cut down for roads for mines sites I've worked and every year we would have to go through and cut them down again. Major pain. We did something similar in my front yard back in PA with a crabapple tree. 75 mph wind storm came through and knocked it down so I cut it at the base and left the trunk about 2 ft of the ground not thinking to total kill it I left it my wife wanted to decorate and landscape around it with flowers and other things. Next spring next thing we know we have 5 ft tall saplings growing out of it. So I ended up overruling the boss and dug it out.

That is really interesting. Before this discussion, I didn't know about maples, plums and peaches having resistance to girdling. I knew palms were, but that is obviously because the structure is different.

Maples?

Yeah. When I read comment #10 I thought it was clearly wrong, since the structure would suggest otherwise. I did a little research and reports affirming the assertion that red maples can be very resistant to girdling.

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"...Red maple is generally very resistant to herbicides (28). Also, diffuse porous species such as red maple are difficult to kill by girdling. For example, 3 years after treatment, 70 percent of the girdled trees had live crowns....:

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It obviously isn't completely immune to all girdling efforts.... of course, whether preceded or not by girdling, digging it out of the ground and replacing it with an apple tree is enough to put an end to most any trees life....at least at that particular location.

When I did it to the hard maple in our yard as a kid, my dad was very clear as to what the results would be if I did it again.

Results as in to what would happen to the tree, and what would happen to me.

I'm assuming that the 'girdle a fruit tree to improve the fruit' method is based on a theory that by denying the leaves access to the roots, all the sugar they produce by photosynthesis gets stored in the fruit.

However this does beg the question; is that the 'final harvest' from the girdled tree? I know trees take a few years to grow to 'fruit bearing age,' and I don't see the purpose in killing a tree to get it's 'swan song' crop, after all the time and effort put into growing the tree, and the time and effort to remove the remains and prepare the spot for another tree.

I could see this done to 'rogue trees' who grew in the wrong spot for the orchard (perhaps a 'wild birth' from a fallen apple, or naturally spread by a nighttime visit from one of the woodland critters visiting the orchard for dinner), or if an orchard needs to be 'cleared out' to make way for a different crop or other farm expansion/rearrangement. As a general practice, however, it just seems like a waste of the tree's future productive years to make 'one great crop.'

It doesn't kill the tree. When done properly the tree heals itself of the process. Making it ready for the next season. The process is done with a special type of knife and the girdling is do a certain way also. Its almost an art form. Its been a while since we had our orchard but most trees were 8-12 years old.

A little off the subject,

Cherry trees when harvested with mechanical shaker, the shaker basically grabs the tree by the trunk, they do have to be careful and not over do it so that the machine does not tear the bark off.

My Grandfather use to make vertical slits low on the stalks of his rose bushes to increase the size and improve the roses.

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His logic for why it produced the desired results makes sense to me: In situations where the continued life of the plant is threatened, from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes sense to throw all resources at reproduction, hence bigger, more colorful, more fragrant roses.

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Perhaps the effect is similar with fruit trees.

I heard but can't verify so maybe someone with knowledge about this will put in their 2 cents.

Old oak tree that are dying off will seed quite heavily? don't know if that true.

I think it would be hard to tell. Oaks exhibit 'masting' to increase the odds of offspring surviving, meaning they produce such a massive amount of acorns at one time that populations that can be sustained the remained of the year without the acorns are not large enough to eat all the acorns when the do all. The amount of acorns that fall is obscene.

Actually the pollen would probably more appropriately be called obscene since it is closer to what could be considered tree-porn....and there is no shortage of that stuff either.

Some trees can survive this. Red maples are one certain species of apples and plums. That's why herbicides are used to kill the roots. Girthing is a coming practice for old growth forest mainly with pines.

Try this site, it has some good information.

If you trying to keeo the tree alive it will die. If you are trying to kill it, it will live foe years.. ..just a general rule od thumb..

yes, if you give it mouth to mouth and maintain a 15-2 ratio of hammer blows to breaths.

Seriously; it depends on the type of tree and how much material you remove.

If this is a mature tree that you really want to keep, I suggest you contact a competent tree specialist for advice.

If one is not available locally there are several available via the internet but you must know exactly what type of tree you have.

Good luck

Girthing was also the way pioneers cleared timber. They usually did this in the winter as well as processing the wood. The next winter they would fell the trees and either make lumbar or fire wood. They had little to do in the winter and this kept the workers quite warm.

If you plan to do something risky postpone to next year if you can. Heavily feed the tree this year with tree spikes. A well-nourished tree will survive better.

To answer you question. Yes. Removing limbs or pruning is an important part of tree and shrub maintenance. There are paints available to cover the wound to prevent pests and infections from setting in. Depending on species will determine the best time of the year to do your maintenance. If you are unsure of yourself best bet is to contact a tree surgeon for help.

Hack out what you need to but paint the exposed inner wood with something to block the bacteria/mold/fungus/bugs/viruses from getting to it.

Just inside the bark is the 'wet' layer containing amygdalin that is anti-bacterial and if breached leaves an open door to rot, etc.

I use a spray can of Cold Zinc Galvanizing Compound to seal off any damage to bark or the raw stub ends of big branches that have to go.

The zinc kills anything bad that tries to get throught.

'Amygdalin'? Truly? I was only aware of a few types of trees that produced amygdalin, and I was under the impression it was typically close to the seed. The bitter cherry, the skin of the bitter almond, and the surrounding seed (inside the pit) of apricots (probably peaches, nectarines, pluots, etc).

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Do I have this mixed up?

Yes and No, it is found in the cambium also on certain kinds of trees like Wild Black Cherry. That is why horses who are sick will chew the bark of of them.

It is also found in the hulls of black walnuts.

Actually, if you look at a list of what deer eat, nearly 80% of the list contains amygdalin.

That's why they can carry hundreds of tick carrying Lyme Disease without getting the symptoms.

Hydrogen cyanide prevent symptoms of Lyme disease?

I guess that shouldn't be too surprising, I'm sure in high enough concentration it prevents further symptoms from all diseases.

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So I'm guessing deer metabolize amygdalin in a different way than humans?

Actually, no. Every cell in our body (and all mammals) can produce an enzyme called sulfotransferase (rhodanase) and turns it into Thiocyanate pf which excess is flushed out of the body.

Bacteria don't have this capability. The sudden rise in cancer, bacterial infections and systemic disruption by pathogens in the last 100 years is due to our NOT getting enough Amygdalin in our foods because we no longer slow cook them below 200F and are eating too much processed food with none of it in them.

This from the Wiki on thiocyanate:

Biological chemistry of thiocyanate in medicine

Thiocyanate^[3] is known to be an important part in the biosynthesis of hypothiocyanite by a lactoperoxidase.^[4][5][6] Thus the complete absence of thiocyanate^[7] or reduced thiocyanate^[8] in the human body, (e.g., cystic fibrosis) is damaging to the human host defense system.^[9][10] Thiocyanate is a potent competitive inhibitor of the thyroid sodium-iodide symporter.^[11]

In the early 20th century, thiocyanate was used in the treatment of hypertension, but it is no longer used because of associated toxicity.^[12]

Thiocyanate is a metabolite of sodium nitroprusside, after rhodanese catalyses its reaction with thiosulfate.

References

1. Greenwood, Norman N.; Earnshaw, Alan (1997). Chemistry of the Elements (2nd ed.). Butterworth-Heinemann. p. 326. ISBN 0080379419.
2. Guy, R. G. (1977). "Syntheses and Preparative Applications of Thiocyanates". In Patai, S. Chemistry of Cyanates and Their Derivatives 2. New York: John Wiley.
3. Pedemonte, N.; Caci, E.; Sondo, E.; Caputo, A.; Rhoden, K.; Pfeffer, U.; di Candia, M.; Bandettini, R.; Ravazzolo, R.; Zegarra-Moran, O.; Galietta, L. J. (2007). "Thiocyanate Transport in Resting and IL-4-Stimulated Human Bronchial Epithelial Cells: Role of Pendrin and Anion Channels" (pdf). Journal of Immunology 178 (8): 5144-5153. PMID 17404297.
4. Conner, G. E.; Wijkstrom-Frei, C.; Randell, S. H.; Fernandez, V. E.; Salathe, M. (2007). "The Lactoperoxidase System Links Anion Transport to Host Defense in Cystic Fibrosis" (pdf). FEBS Letters 581 (2): 271-278. doi:10.1016/j.febslet.2006.12.025. PMC 1851694. PMID 17204267.
5. White, W. E.; Pruitt, K. M.; Mansson-Rahemtulla, B. (1983). "Peroxidase-Thiocyanate-Peroxide Antibacterial System Does not Damage DNA" (pdf). Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy 23 (2): 267-272. PMC 186035. PMID 6340603.
6. Thomas, E. L.; Aune, T. M. (1978). "Lactoperoxidase, Peroxide, Thiocyanate Antimicrobial System: Correlation of Sulfhydryl Oxidation with Antimicrobial Action" (pdf). Infection and Immunity 20 (2): 456-463. PMC 421877. PMID 352945.
7. Childers, M.; Eckel, G.; Himmel, A.; Caldwell, J. (2007). "A new Model of Cystic Fibrosis Pathology: Lack of Transport of Glutathione and its Thiocyanate Conjugates". Medical Hypotheses 68 (1): 101-112. doi:10.1016/j.mehy.2006.06.020. PMID 16934416.
8. Minarowski, Ł.; Sands, D.; Minarowska, A.; Karwowska, A.; Sulewska, A.; Gacko, M.; Chyczewska, E. (2008). "Thiocyanate concentration in saliva of cystic fibrosis patients" (pdf). Folia Histochemica et Cytobiologica 46 (2): 245-246. doi:10.2478/v10042-008-0037-0. PMID 18519245.
9. Moskwa, P.; Lorentzen, D.; Excoffon, K. J.; Zabner, J.; McCray, P. B. Jr.; Nauseef, W. M.; Dupuy, C.; Bánfi, B. (2007). "A Novel Host Defense System of Airways is Defective in Cystic Fibrosis" (pdf). American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine 175 (2): 174-183. doi:10.1164/rccm.200607-1029OC. PMC 2720149. PMID 17082494.
10. Xu, Y.; Szép, S.; Lu, Z.; Szep; Lu (2009). "The antioxidant role of thiocyanate in the pathogenesis of cystic fibrosis and other inflammation-related diseases" (pdf). Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 106 (48): 20515-20519. Bibcode:2009PNAS..10620515X. doi:10.1073/pnas.0911412106. PMC 2777967. PMID 19918082.
11. Braverman LE; He X; Pino S; et. al (2005). "The effect of perchlorate, thiocyanate, and nitrate on thyroid function in workers exposed to perchlorate long-term". J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 90 (2): 700-706. doi:10.1210/jc.2004-1821. PMID 15572417.
12. Warren F. Gorman; Emanuel Messinger; And Morris Herman (1949). "Toxicity of Thiocyanates Used in Treatment of Hypertension". Ann Intern Med. 30 (5): 1054-1059. doi:10.7326/0003-4819-30-5-1054.

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(Part of my successful Lyme cure being adopted world wide this year requires that a minimum amount of amygdalin be put back into the diet on a daily basis, approximately 25 micrograms or the equivalent of eating the 5 seeds in one apple a day.)