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Manganese Brazing

02/17/2014 12:29 PM

Is it possible to braze manganese Tip to MS Hammer.

We want to use this Hammer in hammer mill to grind Manganese lumps

Present Hammers are getting worn out within a day

Regards

Sandeep

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#1

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/17/2014 1:17 PM

You don't mean manganese, alone, do you?

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#2

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/17/2014 1:31 PM

There are much easier ways to introduce silver/copper (or other metals in brazing alloys) into your crushed manganese powder product.

.

Trying to use as your grinding surface, the very material you are attempting to grind does not seem like a logical early choice.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/17/2014 1:48 PM

I'm thinking he means manganese steel or Mangalloy.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/17/2014 2:30 PM

I guess that makes sense, though it could be clearer.

.

Manganese steel can be brazed to mild steel. There are sometimes difficulties related to manganese steels becoming brittle with slow cooling, which, oddly enough, sometimes calls for quenching the workpiece in water frequently.

.

The process and choice of filler material and atmosphere all have can have a big impact on final integrity.... I wonder if the OP is thinking about doing this with oxy-acetylene, tig-bronzing, or vacuum brazing...or?

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/17/2014 9:34 PM

Thank You Sir,

We are trying carbide also

but I think it will not worn out

But it will crack earlier

So that I want to try Manganese brazing on Mild Steel.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 3:29 AM

There are a variety of durable hardfacing options that can be applied in a number of ways.

There are some very tough, durable hardfacing alloys that contain carbide particles, that are available in several different forms, depending on what is available to you: filler rods for TIG or Oxy acetylene, electrodes for stick, wire for MIG, and powders for various powder/flame/plasma applications.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 9:45 AM

I was thinking of hardface as well.

Why not case-harden the hammers?

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#14
In reply to #10

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 3:03 PM

I was going to suggest that, and intended to link to the explanation I provided in the post about American tools, but somehow it slipped. Might just have been laziness on my part.

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#5

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/17/2014 2:56 PM

How about carbide tips brazed to the hammer bodies? (That's just a guess; I don't know what's best for chopping manganese.)

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#7

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 1:10 AM
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#8

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 1:21 AM

Stellite proprietary Cobalt-based alloys may be suitable to you need.

There are numbers of Cobalt based Alloys in this family having outstanding resistance to most types of wear and is extremely resistant to seizing or galling. High temperatures have little effect on the toughness and dimensional stability of this alloy which rapidly work hardens under impact resulting in longer life of the tool.

For further information regarding brazing etc. to MS it is best to seek the advice of material supplier who should have extensive materials know-how, along with comprehensive knowledge of a wide range of applications.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 12:21 PM

Which Cobalt Based Alloy?

and Why?

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#12
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Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 1:00 PM

Stellite is a proprietary Cobalt-based alloy.

Suggest Google search "Stellite" to get comprehensive details.

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#13

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 2:24 PM

Stellite is commonly used as a wear resistant insert for automotive valve seats. It is commonly shrink fitted into the cylinder heads. If you have a problem with brazing, you might try a shrink fit to your mild steel

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#15

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 4:10 PM

Stellite describes a number of different proprietary cobalt alloys. Stellite of all types tends to command a high price, which is understandable because it is a great wear-resistant surface. It is also difficult to machine. Stellite is typically used in places like wear pads, valve seats, bearing races and other smooth interfaces. In my experience, stellite is not often used for crushing, though perhaps I just am unaware of those applications.

Stellite doesn't seem that well suited to an operation like crushing manganese lumps due to its low (comparatively) transverse rupture strength and low elongation (most are about 1%) which typically equates with not being particularly robust when it comes to impact...

.

If you do choose one of the stellite alloys, make sure to choose one with low carbon. The hardfacing would probably need to be kept relatively thin, which might mean frequent need to reface.

.

I'd be interested to hear from people who don't see it the way I do.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 4:30 PM

Very gracefully said, especially about "I'd be interested to hear from people who don't see it the way I do"

I have heard about the Stellite used in colloid mill to increase the stability of suspensions and emulsions of milk.

Probably the surface wear could be increased by coating Titanium nitride (TiN) an extremely hard ceramic material, often used as a coating on titanium alloys, steel, carbide, and aluminium components to improve the substrate's surface properties.

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#17

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 7:06 PM

I'm stepping forward as sort of an ombudsman for our OP sandeep.

He runs a spice packaging facility in India. While he isn't a simple man, he seems to need simple solutions due to the limited resources that are available to him.

Sandeep Lockhand my friend, if I have misstated this, it is not because I believe you aren't capable, but it sounds like (from previous discussions) your resources are, for one reason or another, limited. These restricted available resources include machine shops (vendors) with experienced men or machinery appropriate for you needs, limited production equipment availability (to purchase, or spare parts)... in general, you just don't have a lot of arrows in your quiver when it comes to keeping the place running.

If my understanding of sandeep's circumstance is even somewhat accurate, exotic solutions or materials are never going to be included in any company plans.

He has told us in the past that he has limited access to the internet. If he only comes back here every two or three days to respond, it isn't because he is ignoring our suggestions, it is because the 'net is yet another of his resources that are limited.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/18/2014 9:56 PM

What you have stated is indeed true till recent past, but not any longer so.

I have spent my entire life of seven decades in India and exposed to sophisticated state of the art manufacturing before retiring.

In the course of my present consulting profession, several times I could find solution for intractable technical problems found locally with surprising ease and regularity. Of course it very much depends on across board general technical knowledge and the ability to relate problems with solutions readily available and of course prepared to pay for it. For instance regarding Stellite there will no difficulty at all getting the material and the technical advice.

I do not find Internet connectivity an issue at all and it is true throughout the country.

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#19

Re: Manganese Brazing

02/20/2014 7:08 PM

Try using http://www.columbiasteel.com/xtralloy.manganese.crusher.parts.html

You may be able to braze it to MS. If not, you can shrink fit it.

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#20

Re: Manganese Brazing

03/02/2014 11:49 AM

For poUnding the lime stone in cement industries, pure manganese casting hammers are used. But MS hammers with manganese built (a maximum build of 3 layers) are used as it offsets cost factors of pure manganese hammers.

The material used is 14% Mn, with (4%) or without addition of chromium and welded by a coated electrode or with a filler wire using fcaw process. The manganese being work hardening type delivers around 200 BHN initially and gets work hardened, during pounding to nearly 500 BHN and has longer life span compared to ms head. If required a single layer of chromium overly could be given in diamond pattern to avoid initial wear of Mn overlay.

Overlay done with brazing process using manganese on MS cannot withstand the impact. It is done better by SMAW (or) FCAW processes and will sustain a longer life comparatively.

Sridhar.

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