Previous in Forum: Producing Ethanol From Carbon Monoxide....Done   Next in Forum: Power Pot?
Close
Close
Close
25 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: kibbutz nir-david, a beautiful rural village in Israel
Posts: 307

Did I Discover America?

04/11/2014 12:01 AM

More about the "silly question" that I asked few weeks ago: I wanted to study by myself if suction alone could produce lift.

I have in my bathroom a fan [venta] mounted on the small ventilation window, that has vertical hinges.

When the fan is rotating, and the window isn't locked, the fan pulls open the window.

I took a piece of cardboard, and attached it 2 c.m behind the fan's outlet, so the air flows out but it had to change its flow direction for 90 degrees to radial directions around.

And really- the window didn't move! My first reaction was- Okay- here we see Newton's third law- because the air couldn't flow , there was no reaction!

But then rose in me the idea that the force applied by the airflow against the attached cardboard is playing here an important role.

I looked for a way to solve this question, and here it is:

To prove my idea I tried to use a kitchen scale, I had to hold it horizontally behind the fan. The airflow's force was about 80 grams.

After I took the scale, and pushed the window with the scale to open it.[ the fan wasn't rotating this time] Now showed the scale 40 grams .Of course, this measure isn't precise, but... Here I had a good evidence that the airflow's impact on the attached cardboard is big enough to stop the window's motion. And now I held the scale touching the window's frame- Close to the air's inlet. As I operated the fan, the window opened and pushed the scale with a force of 40 grams!

I measured the time for the fan to open the window- free suction and outlet. It took about 3.5 seconds.

Than I attached the cardboard in front of the fan, so the air entered from the perimeter, and now the third Newton's law had a nice show. The window opened only through reaction, without any suction. This time it took about 5 seconds. It seems that suction alone can play an important role!

But I wanted to be sure that the attached cardboard didn't block the air entrance to the fan, and it proved to be far enough to allow full air f low.

I have to emphasize that I can't guaranty for the validity of the data that I presented here- all what I have done was with cardboard, adhesive tape, and a kitchen scale hold by hand.

Maybe that at higher airflow speed, the ratio suction/thrust will be different, but since I do not have any variable speed fan, I can't do more.

Now the big question:Did I did discover America?

I googled in order to find some data relating to my findings- but nothing!

I would like your comments.

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: aerodynamic Forces
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#1

Re: did I discover America?

04/11/2014 12:36 AM

Can you draw a sketch of the thing?

"the fan pulls open the window"?

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: kibbutz nir-david, a beautiful rural village in Israel
Posts: 307
#3
In reply to #1

Re: did I discover America?

04/11/2014 2:36 AM

Dear Lyn

I don't succseed to copy or attach my drawing to this mail.

In past, I succseeded, but something is wrong now.

Any tip?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#2

Re: did I discover America?

04/11/2014 12:39 AM

What you need is a hovercraft to cruise around on....

http://www.hoverhawk.com/

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#5
In reply to #2

Re: did I discover America?

04/11/2014 9:24 AM

I had seen those you can down load place on the internet.

I was making one with my nephew........ But, I was looking for a throttle control just like that.

Thanks.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 336
Good Answers: 18
#6
In reply to #2

Re: did I discover America?

04/12/2014 12:44 AM

I love the 'cup holder'! It wouldn't be American without a 'cup holder'!

__________________
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Out of your mind! Not in sight!
Posts: 4424
Good Answers: 108
#4

Re: did I discover America?

04/11/2014 3:40 AM

No! And you also did not invent the wheel.

The driving force is pressure, air pressure to be exact!

So you just discovered for yourself how things move when a pressure differential is applied!

Have fun with your testing!

Ne bother with them drawing your discription was plain enough!

__________________
Common Sense Dictates
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 1975
Good Answers: 117
#7

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/12/2014 6:55 AM

Now take a spool of thread...the old fashioned kind about an inch in diameter. Cut a piece of cardboard a little bigger than the end of the spool. Push a pin into it,and drop the pin into the spool. Then try to blow the cardboard off the end.

Report back on this experiment. Explain.

__________________
If it was easy anybody could do it.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#8

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/12/2014 8:54 AM

Did I did discover America? No, in fact it was always there, the Indians lived there. They knew where it was all along and kept it secret as they were happy. Then some foreign sailor noticed the land mass as he was drifting by, in a gentle breeze, fishing and wondering what to do as he was bored silly. I also think, from history, it was Magellan who bumped into the land mass, way before Christopher Columbus.

But there was nothing to discover, it was there, people lived there and they knew exactly where America was. It was more a realisation for others that it was there, just where it had been left previously.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: kibbutz nir-david, a beautiful rural village in Israel
Posts: 307
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/12/2014 9:49 AM

man- you must be very, very bored!

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/12/2014 10:40 AM

I am. It is beyond belief that I am entertaining myself and other here. I shall happily swap you this place for your location. Sweden is the PITS of life at night and weekends. Believe me! If I don't laugh soon I may be in tears for weeks to come.

"It is life Jim, but not as you know it or want!"

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where the sun sets on OZ
Posts: 1381
Good Answers: 28
#15
In reply to #11

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/13/2014 8:36 AM

Did I hear someone call my name? Sitting in my jocks sweat falling from my brow and you say things are crook where you are. Still, mustn't complain, could be in Crimea.

Jim

__________________
Where's the KaBoom? There should be a KaBoom!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/13/2014 9:49 AM

You just had to wind me up. Didn't you! I shall assume you are sitting there with a smile as wide as the Sydney Harbour bridge is long, and thinking of me in this freezing cold, miserable, unfriendly place. The sun is shinning and the temp is about 2C. God only knows why I left Au to arrive here. I was blind and now I see and I should have stayed blind. Boy I miss Au and the warm and the sun and the nice people. Save Me Please!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is so boring and dull I was looking for a nice 32ft Caribbean Riviera motor yacht and guess where the nice ones are......Perth. I shall buy one and sail back to Albany and fish and be happily warm. Not much fishing in the Parra River. Oh I dream, just shoot me please. Enjoy reveling in the warmth, sweating, while I wrap up a bit more. Boy I envy you. A great deal too. Enjoy and thanks for the jibe, I needed it.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#17
In reply to #15

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/13/2014 10:17 AM

Jim, I had to reply and be envious and now look what happened, it is sleeting. Bring on global warming for Sweden, please! I am house trained, clean, and useful, I am free to any good home in Au. What a bargain! If you have a village seeking an idiot, let me know, I shall fill the position.........

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where the sun sets on OZ
Posts: 1381
Good Answers: 28
#20
In reply to #17

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/14/2014 6:13 AM

Sleet? heard of it, dunno what it is. Could you please send a bucket load over so I can see what it is that makes you like it so much that you left here to go and get some. Yes we do have a vacancy for a village idiot. There is a cosy place on the verandah for you to doss if you've a mind to. The Kooka's will wake you early so you can soak up the morning sun before starting your idiocy. Our village is small so the rounds should be over before beer o'clock and then you can regale us with tales of the north.

Cheers.

Let me know when you have landed and I will pick you up from the airport.

Jim

__________________
Where's the KaBoom? There should be a KaBoom!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#23
In reply to #20

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/14/2014 7:39 AM

Mix of rain and snow. Looks like falling slushies but with no flavour. I Think it is safer to leave my mind behind as it could be construed as a dangerous weapon of mass destruction and as it is mind over matter, my mind does not matter.

Veranda, now that is total luxury, I should be honoured. Does the koala do room service as well? Enjoy the day and the sun, I saw some today, it looked nice, but now we have more precipitation. And they harp on about global warming. I guess Sweden is not on the same globe.

Best to you and thanks again for the banter. I sorely miss it

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where the sun sets on OZ
Posts: 1381
Good Answers: 28
#24
In reply to #23

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/14/2014 7:49 AM

Best to you and thanks again for the banter. I sorely miss it

Yeah, me too. It's good to be able to type in the vernacular and be understood, as well.

Bewdy bottler

Jim

__________________
Where's the KaBoom? There should be a KaBoom!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#25
In reply to #24

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/14/2014 8:04 AM

I dont have a vernacular, just an office. Boy you are so lucky. It would be nice to get back to you and natter, one foreigner to another. Oh, the sheer joy. Be still my giddy heart!

Enjoy the close of the day. enjoy a beer for me to please.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 336
Good Answers: 18
#10
In reply to #8

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/12/2014 10:33 AM

Christopher Columbus 'The true story'.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Flip+Wilson+%22Christopher+Columbus

__________________
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#12
In reply to #10

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/12/2014 10:48 AM

Thanks for that link. Really good.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 1975
Good Answers: 117
#13
In reply to #8

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/12/2014 4:23 PM

No, I do believe it was Cabot who discovered mainland America about 4 hundred years after Leif Ericson found it. Unkown Portuguese sailors where whaling there about 50 years before even Cabot showed up! They were not supposed to talk about it, but you know how good the wine is in Portugal, and in vino veritas!

__________________
If it was easy anybody could do it.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/13/2014 7:46 AM

Crowmannion. Did he have a hand it walking there long before Lief Ericsson. Well someone stumbles across the land mass and I am sure some folks are happy that someone did stumble there. I cannot tell a lie, it was not me.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 1975
Good Answers: 117
#18
In reply to #14

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/14/2014 4:30 AM

Oh right....neolithic men and women. There was an interesting article a few years ago about the "ATLANTIC ICE BRIDGE" which could have enabled mammoth hunters in Europe a way to get to the new world across the remnants of the glaciers. Unproven, but plausible. But there IS evidence.

Much later, we have evidence of a trading camp in Baffin Island, scales and other artifacts suggest that it was an unknown Viking trader. Or more than one, apparently it went on for near a half century. Lots of things to trade in those days...Walrus and Narwhale ivory, seal furs, polar bear hides, pickled (salted) cormorant eggs and muskox wool. Iceland was a source for eider down. Pity those sustainable industries have gone by the board. Probably too much work.

__________________
If it was easy anybody could do it.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: kibbutz nir-david, a beautiful rural village in Israel
Posts: 307
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/14/2014 5:29 AM

B.t.w- how did it happen that an Arabic name- Yusef, transfered the atlantic in order to be adopted by you?

As I watched your face in the picture- it is more a viking's face and not of a middle east native.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 1975
Good Answers: 117
#21
In reply to #19

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/14/2014 6:28 AM

That's kinda personal....

__________________
If it was easy anybody could do it.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#22
In reply to #18

Re: Did I Discover America?

04/14/2014 7:29 AM

Well in all reality I think it is called 'Progress'. What was not stated about progress is that it kills small industries and economics for most and shifts the balance of income to other countries.

Once, all the land was joined together so people could walk about freely, so my guess is that America was 'discovered' (found, inhabited, located), long, long ago, just no one put a name to, it so in all fairness, maybe they should be asking who gave America its name, rather than who 'discovered' it. And what was it called before it was called America?

You can only discover something if it is lost or suddenly exists. If it was there all along, it could not be discovered, as it existed and was not lost in the first place.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 25 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

az native (3); IdeaSmith (1); IQ (9); JIMRAT (3); lyn (1); phoenix911 (1); SolarEagle (1); SWB123 (2); Yusef1 (4)

Previous in Forum: Producing Ethanol From Carbon Monoxide....Done   Next in Forum: Power Pot?

Advertisement