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Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 2:05 PM

can you suggest me how to understand electrical control wiring of a machine in actual.

As understanding by looking at the drawing is easy but it is too difficult to understand the logic when encounter in actual in front of the machine panel.

to understand the logic of instruments connected let it be sensors,temp controllers or proximity switches,

can you help me understand the instruments, their working and controlling part.?

thanx

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#1

Re: how to understand electrical control wiring of machine in actual

04/19/2014 2:16 PM

I can't understand your question so I'm afraid I can't help you understand an unspecified machine, actual or otherwise.

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#2

Re: how to understand electrical control wiring of machine in actual

04/19/2014 2:45 PM

This is a bona fide problem. Too many schematics are not accompanied with well written descriptions.

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#3

Re: how to understand electrical control wiring of machine in actual

04/19/2014 3:06 PM

Schematics are not for the untrained observer.

It is also NOT something a person can teach you on a forum such as this.

There is no instant knowledge infusion for untrained electricians.

Tutorial - How to Read a Schematic
SCHEMATIC READING
Tutorial - How to Read a Schematic
Symbols Used in Electronics Projects Schematics - For Dummies

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#4

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 5:50 PM

Much as we'd like to help you on your quest, CR4 does not offer degree programs in this area.

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#5

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 7:29 PM

I'd practice on old Trane air conditioners with ALL BLACK wire....after that the rest are a snap

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 7:36 PM

Unless wired by a color-blind electrician, in which case matters can be worse.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 7:51 PM

Over 60 miles of wire snaked through the Cray-1 supercomputer, with no segment longer than three feet to minimize signal delays.

All the wires were blue & white twisted pair.

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#8
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Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 8:03 PM

Does that explain global warming models?

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#9

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 8:13 PM

Many people have learned in the following manner:

Find a very intelligent person with knowledge on the subject, very knowledgeable in teaching techniques and most of all very patient.

Take a white board (chalk board) to the site of the control and go through it until you have a pretty good idea of the operation and wiring. Don't annoy the teacher and do everything that is required of you. If you have a question, ask it! Listen to the answer carefully.

If the teacher drinks coffee (tea on the other side of the pond) bring him a large cup of Latte or his favorite flavor each morning. Also don't use any cheap after-shave (or perfume for the ladies). If you have been working hard on a hot day it is better to smell like fresh sweat than some cheap, odoriferous and annoying trash.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#10

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 9:07 PM

No one here can tell you why you do not understand the documentation we cannot see. I appreciate that you do grasp that there is more knowledge needed than the documents themselves provide to understand why and how a machine works. Some of the knowledge you seek can be quickly obtained by formal schooling. Some knowledge can only be found in the school of Hard Knocks. The curriculum of the school of Hard Knocks changes from individual to individual. Nobody graduates from the school of Hard Knocks alive.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 9:09 PM

Excellent reply.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 10:08 PM

Thank you. Oh, and glad to see you back, again.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/19/2014 9:52 PM

There ya go...: The tuition in the School of Hard Knocks = the Wages of Sin = Death.

[see also Dudley Moore in Bedazzled]

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/20/2014 3:44 AM

'...the Wages of Sin = Death....'

.

Yeah, but there was a real moral hazard created when they instituted the universal death-ty net, providing comparable wages to those who were, for one reason or another, unable or unwilling to engage in regular full time sin.

.

Ever since they started providing death for everyone, whether they sinned or not, you can hardly get anyone to do anything these days if all you are offering is to make sure they die. The professions of henchman and hangman will likely never recover to their former glory.

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#14

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/20/2014 12:19 AM

Hi Ujiwalsaxena,

If you can understand the drawings then the rest is easy, every timer, relay, contactor, AC drive etc have their schematics written in them or on their datasheet. Give us an example so we can show you what I mean. I take it you have a keen interest for electrical or you have just started in the trade in "Real World", take a picture and I am sure that we can help out.

Happy Easter Everyone, I hope you are all having a great time!!!

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#15

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/20/2014 2:20 AM

When you have a fault; you will learn how to do it.

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#17

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/20/2014 4:28 AM

ya the drawing is very easy to look at but it need an age to reach on the level to analyze ,

what you have asked ,

the 2000 books of 1000 pages cant cover it.

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#18

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/20/2014 4:53 AM

What are you talking about? Control wires are used in several systems, for e.g. home automation system. That is smart home automation (the intelligent smart home keypad etc.)? Drawing should specify it. They must have a color and legend to show the control wire. The smart home panels have some looping to the final distribution panel (board) for special lighting circuits, for instance. SHP would also be having a special module known as volume or so interacting with ONU (Optical Network Unit). ONU, FDB, and SHP are installed adjacent (with spacing) in the same premise. It is just a short overview, I think. I don't have the very details ...

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#24
In reply to #18

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/22/2014 7:23 AM

OP said panel and I explained to him. Now here is a photo of actual site that I used to work at showing the smart home panel. It has 2.5 mm^2 wires and control wires i.e. CAT6/CAT6A cables. The bottom section is the module section with CAT6 control cables/wires run to ONU panel. As I explained above, the 2.5 wires are looped back to the adjacent power FDB/panel for the special circuits to be controlled by the home automation system. Hope you all enjoy it :)

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#19

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/20/2014 7:27 AM

it called ,termination not the knowledge but the control engineering to have enough knowledge of the components (which you are going to terminate ...

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#20

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/20/2014 11:24 AM

You said that the drawing is easy to understand, but not the machine. So, look at the drawing and pretend you are looking at the machine. Now identify every indicater and switch on the machine that is in the drawing (trace wires if you need to). The more time you spend doing this, the more understanding you will get.

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#21

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/20/2014 8:18 PM

Ujjwalsaxena,

A few thoughts:

  1. I hope your drawings are using standard graphical symbols for the various components. Also, I hope that they are professionally made with a key for the abbreviations and numbering of pages and lines. With these then come cross-references of contacts that are controlled by relay or contactor coils, contacts on switches or buttons, and similar ways to find what components are actually part of a single device.
  2. In wiring the controls, it will help you to learn, if the first ones you study have the various devices labeled, using the same abbreviations or descriptions as on the drawings. After a while, this will be less critical because your experience will help you to know the typical shape or size or location or appearance of the various devices.
  3. In wiring the controls, it will also help you if each wire is numbered or identified in some way at both ends. This is usually not done in most panels because using numbered wires or numbering then is more expensive, and buyers tend to want the cheapest cost for the control panel without realizing that numbered wires will save them much more money when repairs are needed.
  4. Control components are real-world pieces of electrical/mechanical equipment. They don't work instantaneously, and they all affect the circuit they are connected to. As an example, a contactor coil will take a small but real amount of time to physically move the contacts, and will take a greater amount of energy to get this done than it will require to hold them in the changed condition. Further, when this coil is de-energized, as the parts move back to their resting position, the motion will generate a spike in voltage back onto the wires--which can damage or even destroy the component that supplied this power.
  5. Depending on the voltages, frequencies, and physical layout of components, you can have inductive coupling of voltage or current from one wire to another unrelated but nearby one. This can cause unexpected problems--including at the worst, complete failure of the controls to operate as intended.

I hope from these brief comments, that you see the subject is one that is not simple. Find someone who has a few minutes or an hour of time when you are trying to learn this and ask for guidance. If you are truly showing interest and are willing to study, and ask good questions, you will eventually get to a position of being the one others ask for help. This may take a relatively short time (a few weeks perhaps) for a simple system, but can take many years before you can approach something you have never seen before, with minimal information on it, and be able to diagnose and repair the problem.Remember, many times, the problem you see is just the symptom of what is wrong; the real problem may be elsewhere, so you have to find what caused the problem and fix that.--JMM

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/20/2014 9:53 PM

just take one wire at a time

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#23

Re: Electrical Control Wiring

04/21/2014 10:48 AM

To really begin to understand what the various schematics represent you first need to...

1) Pick one machine or system to study first.

2) Study that machine or system until you fully understand its various cycles and moving components.

3) Study the various input that the machine needs in order to "read" its current state. Such device are limit switches, pressure switches, photocells, push buttons and on and on.

4) Build a logic chart on paper of the various inputs. Like... "when pusher A gets to the end of its stroke, limit switch X closes the contacts associated with PLC Input 123".

5) Take some time to understand the basic components of the logic controller in use. Understand what an internal timer (and the other components as well) is and how it works

6) Then... now armed with this basic understanding of the machines functions, cycles and inputs and outputs, and tha basic components of the logic controller, start at the beginning of the schematic and PLC ladder and work down and across the logic system.

There is no magic bullet here... you need to put in the time to master this skill.

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