Electrical Work Question

Cheap Chinese bulbs? That's no mystery.....buy some LED's....

I always replace the 'included' wire nuts with the beige 'twister' nuts from Ideal. They work well for almost every connection you will encounter doing home electrical work. Also make sure you don't use outlets as a way to pass through power.

Make sure all of your connections are solid. Consider replacing the light switch with a new one or different type as it may not be making and breaking correctly.

I don't doubt you but how would a wire nut ruin a connection unless the design didn't allow for proper tightening or the nut is too small to do the job.

I am trying to learn since I think I am missing some basic concept.

It's relatively easy to screw up a wire nut connection if all you do is twist it until it's tight. Many people fail to pull on each wire to ensure that it is properly captured, loose connections are very frequent when stranded wire is combined with solid, especially with multiple smaller gauge fixture wires and a #12 solid feed.

Thanks, you confirmed my suspicions. A less generous wire nut could easily contribute to a lose connection, which is the likely culprit for the posted problem.

There are two "tools" that will reduce the possibility of a loose wire nut considerably. There are screw drivers that have a receptacle in the hand end of the handle that is sized just right to accommodate both a yellow or red wire nut. Tighten the nut by hand to a "firm tightness" and then put the wire nut inside the handle receptacle. Continue to tighten the wire nut this way until it will turn no more with a "strong" tightening of the wrist. These are available in 3" and 6" cabinet slotted tips and also a 4" slotted tip screw driver. They are also available in multi-function screw drivers.

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=30-331

Some of the manufacturers include Ideal Electric, Klein, and others.

Ideal also makes a small yellow plastic palm held tool intended to tighten wire nuts in the same way.

Both of these tools are available at the big orange and big blue boxes.

Look at the bottom, back or side of a box of wire nuts for the number of wires and combinations that the wire nuts in the box will work with. Use only the color/size that is intended for the juncture you are working on. Make sure you strip the wires to the length indicated on the box. Not long enough and you might not make contact with the other wires. Too long and there may be exposed wire(s) that could touch other components.

Good Luck, Old Salt

The right tool in the wrong hands doesn't guarantee good results. It's a two step process, select the right size for the wire combination, and tug on each wire while holding the wire nut in your other hand. It's very easy to use a tool and get a tight connection, but that is no guarantee that all the wires are fully engaged under the threads.

Many times I have found the nut firmly engaged on the solid #12 but the stranded #18 only has a few #26 strands caught and pulls right out. Failure to do both steps correctly leads to arcing and/or overheating.

Yes- I and many others are apparently aware, from the proliferation of answers emphasizing it, that the right size wire nut must be used and the wires confirmed to be tightly included within it.

If reviewed, you will notice that the answer, #21, was initiated with: There are two "tools" that will reduce the possibility of a loose wire nut considerably. This was clearly intended to tell the reader and the OP that the beginning was about two tools that would reduce the possibility of a loose wire nut, not to confirm the integrity of each wire being held within the twist of wires inside the wire nut. Also a wire nut that is not sufficiently tightened because it was tightened by hand is more susceptible to being loose and having loose wires than one which has been fully tightened. The solid #12 with the stranded #18 you cited is a prime example of that.

The second part started out with: Look at the bottom, back or side of a box of wire nuts for the number of wires and combinations that the wire nuts in the box will work with. This also denotes that this portion is not relevant to "pulling wires" to check them for thickness. The remainder of this section gives added description to the permissible combination of wires. Use only the color/size that is intended for the juncture you are working on. Make sure you strip the wires to the length indicated on the box. Not long enough and you might not make contact with the other wires. Too long and there may be exposed wire(s) that could touch other components. This is a readily available listing that many people using wire nuts, including some licensed electricians that have forgotten or never learned about. If they don't know surely many others don't know about it.

Pulling wires to confirm they are tight is necessary but there are also tools which will assist in fully tightening the wire nut so wires do not pull out. It is also necessary to use the correct size of wire nut to form a tight juncture. Use of a red wire nut for 4 ea of any type of #12 wire is acceptable. The use of the red wire nut for 5ea #12 of any type of wire is not acceptable. Likewise the use of the red wire nut is not permitted for any single #12 wire and a single #18 wire juncture.

The connection of wires must be done in a correct manner. Not only does the use of a tool not guarantee a good joint but pulling on the wires also does not. If the wire wasn't stripped long enough the insulation will be squeezed in the twist bundle of wires and no electrical connection will be made.

You only included part of the procedure(s) to connect wires, just as I only covered two parts. All are necessary and one does not eliminated the need for any of the others.

NOTE- The twisting of wire nuts is not applicable to set screw wire nuts.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Odd, incandescents usually burn out due to overvoltage or poor quality. What's the voltage and are they are on a dimmer or GFCI circuit? I don't get your bit about deliberately screwing with the grounds, could you explain what you did? Also the bare ground wires are there for safety and (should) have nothing to do with carrying current.

If you think it's the bulbs then why not put some of the new batch into some old fixtures and see if they also fail prematurely, if not then something is weird with your new wiring. There's also a chance that you have a poor neutral/ground connection, if there's arcing under load then it could cause the filaments to vibrate, resonate and fail.

You have friend who are electricians, but did they help you?

The deliberate incorrect grounding...you did this so that when you grounded and bonded everything correctly...then you had a reference point...is that what you mean?

When you say light bulbs, do you mean the old incandescent style, (compact) fluorescent, LED, halogen, sodium vapor, or...?

What do you consider a normal life span for your light bulbs? What is the life span they are experiencing? What light bulbs are "we" being forced to buy?

The ground wires are not where I would be looking for an issue with lamp life on the get go, since the ground wire is for clearing faults, and is not normally a current carrying conductor...i.e., not used to power a lamp in a normal un-faulted condition. The breakers aren't tripping, so that is good.

If you had a bad connection on either of the current carrying conductors the net result at the load ("bulb") would be lowered or intermittent power, anyway.

This could be an interesting situation, so please carry on.

This might be another visit from the open neutral problem. First, are you in the United States? Key point: are you in a country where houses get 115VAC and 230VAC delivered as two out-of-phase 115VAC lines?

Second: Have you measured the voltage at the lights or at outlets that are on the same circuit as the lights? Key points: 1) is the voltage correct? 2) Does your meter reading jump up and down and seem unstable when something large (washer, dryer, air conditioner) turns on?

A neighbor of mine once had outlets that were "good" but the readings jumped when doing laundry. The power company said that this was ok before the Fire Department showed up. After the Fire Department left the power company went up on the pole and reconnected neutral to ground on the pole. (Yes, I know that neutral should be grounded at the service entrance. My story is from Florida and in Florida .....)

the breakers are only telling you they are not seeing excessive current, don't be fooled by this

I'd swap the lightbulbs on your new system with some of them from the original, and see if the problem swaps with them.

CFLs have a shorter lifetime mounted base-up (hanging down) versus base-down. The heat generated shortens the life of the electronics. I don't know if this applies to your situation.

That would make all ceiling mounted lamps, >75% of them, prone to premature failure.

That has the makings of a conspiracy theory....

I've had bad batches of CFLs years ago. Not so bad now but still not super reliable. They still don't last anywhere near as long as the labeling on the reputable brand's packaging suggests.

They may save energy but the cost of replacement kind of negates that benefit. They do run nice and cool which is good where I live. Not being dimable is a total drag though.

Quality (as with anything!) plays a big role, especially with CFLs. CFLs still get warm and if poorly ventilated, in my opinion they fail earlier....Not a scientific assessment.

I have had better luck with cheaper LED lamps from eachbuyer, though testing is not finished, the first 8 months has passed with no failures..... I would have expected at least one (of 25) to have already failed if the quality was questionable....it hasn't.

As they are a 1/4 of the price of the same type here, I can afford for a few to eventually fail.......after 2 hours in a properly ventilated fitting, only slightly above my body temperature, maybe 5 °C more......

I also have 8 year mains LEDs (also G10 base) that still work fine, but do not have the brightness of more modern versions....

I like LEDs....

I managed to get my hands on a dimmable LED 220VAC lamp here for trial.

It looked just like a regular frosted glass incandescent light bulb with an Edison screw......

The dimming, which was supposed to be possible with a regular incandescent light dimmer, wasn't too good. The range from brightest to lowest was lousy and it really only seemed to have two lighting levels, bright and slightly dimmer.

Not a real replacement for an incandescent bulb at all if dimming is needed.

I gave it back. No cost no loss.

Not fit for purpose and customer went with regular incandescent bulbs for proper dimming. This was for a bar.

I tried.

An individual had similar problem with a fixture in their kitchen. Bulbs burned out after about a month or two. Said problem had been going on for a year or two. Investigated and found the grounded wires to the fixture showed evidence of extreme heat due to loose connection at wire nuts. Replaced fixture and never received a call back. Five years later heard they never had the issue again.

Assuming that the voltage applied is correct at all times for the bulbs in use, the only other errors that I have seen around are poor quality bulbs (there is a lot of crap around as some countries switch to LEDs & CFLs over the next few years for many bulb sizes).

As I believe you haven't mentioned WHERE you live, some possible errors of location cannot be covered. Nor have you mentioned the bulb type that is giving you problems fully.....making it more difficult to be accurate....

But there are also many poor quality fittings round that do not allow "normal" bulbs enough air to "convect through" for cooling purposes. These fittings are often good enough for CFLs and LED lamps that need far less cooling due to being far more efficient. But don't forget that some cooling air is ALWAYS a good idea as the electronics in LED lamps last longer the cooler they work....as do CFLs when hung socket end down.....

Such badly designed fittings have been around LONG before CFLs and LEDs, they usually look good, but can only handle very low wattage bulbs. Be warned......

Many years ago I have actually cut holes in such fittings after seeing early life failures, that have dramatically increased bulb life spans.....not always possible though.

Bulb holders for any bulb type, but especially normal bulbs must be of a type that will handle heat fully and suck it away from the bulb as much as possible....often they need to be replaced, use ceramic versions, not plastic. But if CFL/LED buls, you can probably forget this point.

To my mind, anyone not using CFL/LED lamps wherever possible (100 watts or less for example) today is wasting money energy wise anyway, plus the cooling requirements that are needed, not forgetting that normal bulbs can also be a fire hazard if they get too hot near flammable materials........

Even over 100 Watts per bulb areas are being "overtaken" by (sadly) expensive LEDs versions, our street lighting here for example that drop the power costs dramatically......but seen over say 10 years, a vast amount of money can be saved power wise.....which offsets the bulb/lamp cost dramatically....as well as replacement costs....reduced maintenance etc..

Had a similar problem with the outside lamps at my mother-in-law's house. I would put in the bulbs she bought each time one or more of them died. Seemed to be very frequently needed. As a test I bought the bulbs and got "double the life" bulbs. Put them in and at least doubled the time between replacements. She was buying the cheapest bulbs she could find and for a savings of only 15%. At a 1,000 hours life, a bulb used 8 hrs/day will only last 3 months.

Are you using the same type of bulbs? Were the older ones 125v or 130v rated?

Also ceiling lights are used more often than table lamps, pole lamps, etc. Has there been a change in patterns of use?

Good Luck, Old Salt

I think it will turn out to be cheap bulbs if incandescent. New standards for efficiency work against reliability. There have always been vibration resistant bulbs that run less hot and have a central filament support. They're less efficient. Like the man says, go LED. I prefer the Cree brand bulbs, since they supply most others with the teeny LED squares.