Radio Using Life on Another Planet 500 Years Ago?

I have tracked down artists depiction of expected life forms compiled from exhaustive research of planet environment....

There seems to be 2 separate Intelligent life forms....

...and....

they digitized the signal, heres what they got...

Any such claim, were it to stand up to rigorous scrutiny, would drive a coach-and-horses through the foundations of various belief systems, which subject falls outside CR4's remit.

The answer to the question, "Are we alone?" would become, "Yes, though we are now much more widely dispersed than was known hitherto". As always, categorisation of plural pronouns is fundamental to reaching true understanding.

Does SETI* know about this?

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI_Institute

Not sure, but the data is though one of their programs, I suspect the author has communicated with SETI.

No, it is open on one position.

What should we do if it turns out to be the case?

I dunno. Invite them over for pizza & beer? We may have to wait a thousand years for a response and by then of course there's a pretty good chance both will be at the same temperature, ie, cold pizza and warm beer. Now, if by some good fortune they turn out to be British, well, then we're home free.

If you take the waterfall picture and print it, you can sight along the page at a small angle, a technique known as eye integration. You can just make out some lines. I guess the proof would be if you had two telescopes in different locations pointed at the same star which had the same signals.

So, you are saying that I saw a 'random' Teddy Bear in the clouds yesterday ? Methinks not....he was huge and white and fluffy, and he waved back at me!

Suggest you stay away from those 'shrooms.

I agree with you that the human brain and eyes will find patterns, whether they're there or not. I would hope that the author has done some signal processing to determine whether the "signals" have a low probability of being a coincidence of random noise.

One of the simplest processes is to average the spectrum over time. For a stationary signal (not changing in frequency), the signal to noise ratio increases as the square root of the number of scans.

Sighting along the time axis of the waterfall display actually allows your eye to simulate this averaging by compressing the time axis.

Of course, the danger with any post processing of spectral data is the same as with the human brain and eyes - the result is colored by what you are seeking to find. It should always be compared with the result from truly random data and a mathematical determination made of the probability that the signal exists.

In this case, I think I see evidence of a number of really faint signals that barely exceed the noise level with eye integration. It would be great to have access to the raw data rather than just the waterfall spectrogram.

Looked at it again. Don't think there is anything there.

http://www.seti.org/seti-institute/news/kepler-186f-it-inhabited-0

Yes, this same technique, called 'stacking,' is used to improve the signal-to-noise ratio in stellar images.

Looks very much like this....

...closeup of blacktop...

Dark matter?

Look closer!

Oh! That must be SETI's new CFO. They've searching for one, you know. Truly.

I hope it's an intelligent one.

Unfortunately, the author is doing image processing on a screenshot of processed data which has been converted to a display format. The raw data is what would need to be obtained and run through a spectral analysis.

Image analysis of radio frequency data is not the way to re-process the data.

Cuba_Pete,

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SETI has designed their SETILive program around using volunteer image analysis of radio frequency as a bulk filter to point their researchers at promising data.

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Do you think this is a worthwhile or even useful approach? What would you suggest as an alternative way to reprocess radio frequency data that might be more advantageous?

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By the way, my questions are sincere. I'm not saying 'SETI is doing it so it must be valid'...lots of large organizations run less than optimal operations.

I have been subscribed to seti@home since it's inception, so I understand where you are coming from. I have never tried to dissect their data packets to reprocess it with my own application, though.

I use several different types of spectrum analyzers and extensive signal processing programs for my work. The waterfall spectrograms are great for visual displays for our eyes, but a robust computer program would provide infinitely better results in my view, so to speak.

I'm still playing around with this. I opened the image up in GIMP and also loaded it into Octave (Matlab like freeware). There are 67 levels of amplitude spectral data in this sample, which does give you something to work with.

GIMP converts it into a matrix and just about anything can be done with it. All I have tried so far is to compress the time dimension (averaging successive scans). I can then write it back out as an image to reload into GIMP.

With GIMP, I can play with the brightness and contrast with a tool called 'Curves' that allows you to map input level to output level with whatever curve you want to use. I reversed the black/white because I'm used to looking at black signals on a white background (I guess it's a matter of taste). Also useful is scaling the vertical dimension down to simulate eye integration.

Now the big question is what are we looking for. Does anybody know what we're looking for? My initial assumption is some sort of frequency stable carrier (vertical line). I notice they don't give you any time scale. Perhaps if they find enough stable carrier lines, they can correlate it with a periodic doppler shift corresponding to planet rotation or revolution around the star.

All I have found is some "squiggily stuff", no stable lines, even pieces.

One signal that would make them happy as a clam would be something along these lines:

WOW Signal

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On the VLF band meanwhile, all I could detect were 60 Hz harmonics - and the alien in the neighbor's dishwasher:

Those two prominent ridges are probably a relay or solenoid-valve operating.

The hydrogen frequency is a double edged sword. True, it might be a logical choice to make contact. But it could also be a natural event. There's a lot of hydrogen out there and a lot of high energy events going on. (It could perhaps be some kind of interstellar Maser, for all I know.)

We assume extraterrestrials "build stuff" like we do. They may be out there and have no desire or need for radio waves. Cetaceans here on Earth may very well be as intelligent as humans. We share the same planet, but we so far can't communicate with them.

It isn't a matter of basing our searches off an assumption that extraterrestrials build stuff and use radio waves. The chances that non-building non-radio utilizing life exists far outweigh the chances for radio building extraterrestrials. It is only a matter of practicality: there are no radio waves to search looking for non-broadcasting life; there is no possibility for decoding anything from a species that does not send messages.

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There may indeed be ways in which Cetaceans are more intelligent than us, but if that is the case, it is likely a form of intelligence so outside our grasp that we have trouble even recognizing it. Just as with the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence, for it to mean anything to us, for us to be able to interact, there must be sufficient similarities otherwise it will be difficult to even notice, much less understand.

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If we wanted to theorize about potential locations of intelligence that we are unlikely to be able to engage meaningfully, we might as well start with our own sun. With reliable energy levels, slowly changing composition, gravity and energy gradients, billions of years, in a vast volume far in excess of the volume in which life arose on earth, there might be 'intelligence' in the sun...as a whole or distinct entities therein. The physical realm is so starkly different from our own, that there is no reason to assume that their consciousness or life span occurs over a similar time span as ours. In fact, if any arbitrary time span less than a few billion years is equally probably, chances are the mismatch would make it incredibly difficult to notice or communicate with such intelligence. In the end, on many levels, whether or not intelligence so starkly different from our own exists is not all that useful. Even though it seems incredibly egotistical, it might not be worth calling 'intelligent' in human language, if humans lack any capacity to understand it.

Hi Rixter,

You wrote, 'We assume extraterrestrials "build stuff" like we do. They may be out there and have no desire or need for radio waves.'

Then I must ask: why are we listening at all? It is a long shot to be sure but, like the gamblers playing the slots at a Las Vegas casino, we're hoping to hit the jackpot. The problem is: it's a big Universe. On the bright side: it's a big Universe - lots of worlds out there. Today we know of at least 500 exoplanets. A short thirty years ago we didn't know of a single one. That's something.

1420 MHz is the spin-flip frequency of the neutral hydrogen and lies in a relatively quiet region in the radio spectrum and, happily for us, one to which our atmosphere is highly transparent. Even more importantly, radio waves in this region can penetrate the large clouds of interstellar dust that are opaque to shorter wavelengths. There is nothing magic about 1420 MHz but, if you're going to listen for radio-evidence of civilizations elsewhere in the galaxy, it's as good a place to start as any. Plus, they're not limiting their search to just that frequency.

There are astrophysical masers, btw - lots of them. Most are not hydrogen masers and don't emit at 1420 MHz. The majority of these masers originate in relatively dense, warm molecular clouds of H2O, OH (hydroxyl), HCN (formaldehyde), CH (methine), SiO (silicon monoxide), and others, masing at all kinds of frequencies. Their power levels are highly variable and most emissions are circularly polarized to a significant degree, especially OH maser emissions.

There are also so-called 'megamasers' which originate near the cores of active galaxies. All known megamasers extragalactic and are around 100 million times more powerful than galactic masers. Fortunately, all astrophysical maser emissions are peculiar enough to be readily identified as such.

Nice information.

A minor correction is needed: HCN is hydrogen cyanide. Formaldehyde is CH₂O.

Yes it is and, yes it is. Thanks.

What do you think should be done if that turned out to be the case?
The religious should pray for divine intervention, while the more enterprising of us should begin excavating vast shelters/ bunkers. Let them have the skyscrapers,the banks and our cattle. This is preferable to colonisation of our race. In fact, we should prepare a warm welcome in our own defence.(Gamma canons spring to mind).

On the other hand, energy frequencies are a natural occurence, and may not require the intervention of biological intelligence to propagate. Maybe this planet is itself a giant crystal radio set.

Just got this from Discovery.

The people of planet Earth would be wise to raise their cosmic consciousness prior to contact with an extraterrestrial civilization, a new study shows.

"The scientific community now accepts to some degree that this contact may occur in the next 50 to 100 years," writes Gabriel De la Torre, a clinical neuropsychologist and human factors specialist at the University of Cádiz in Spain.

13 Ways to Hunt Intelligent Aliens

"Consequently, we are becoming more concerned about this possibility and its aftermath … Certainly the topic of contact with extraterrestrial civilizations raises a number of questions that are not easy to answer," De la Torre writes. "We estimate that this type of event will have not only a social effect, but also on both consciousness and biology as well."

De la Torre surveyed 116 college students from Spain, the United States and Italy about their religious beliefs, familiarity with astronomy and the Search for Extraterrestial Intelligence, or SETI, programs, and other factors including attention and perception.

The results showed several aspects affect awareness of space.

De la Torre points out that more than 100 years ago Canadian psychiatrist Richard Bucke described "cosmic consciousness" as "a new evolution step beyond self-consciousness."

VIDEO: How are we Looking for Intelligent Alien Life?

"According to Bucke, by virtue of self-consciousness, man is not only conscious of trees, rocks, bodies of water, and his own limbs and body, but he also becomes conscious of himself as a distinct entity apart from all the rest of the universe.

"Further, by means of self-consciousness, man becomes capable of treating his own mental states as objects of consciousness. The prime characteristic of cosmic consciousness is, as its name implies, a consciousness of the cosmos, that is, of the life and order of the universe," De la Torre writes in a study published in the journal Acta Astronautica.

"A certain level of achievement of cosmic consciousness is needed for successful contact, in our opinion. We do not understand cosmic consciousness as a special mystic-state achievement, but as a conscious perception of reality" beyond the effects of fear, religion, denial, etc., he writes.

ANALYSIS: Will Intelligent Alien Life be Found by 2040?

"Some individuals, small groups of people or scientists, may actually possess the required level of awareness to be involved in an event such as contact with an extraterrestrial civilization, but we need to further analyze the current global awareness level as a species."

But how would we accomplish that?

"I would say we need more education," De la Torre wrote in an email to Discovery News.

"Do you know of the 'overview effect' many astronauts have talked about?," he asked, referring to the reported shift of perception astronauts and cosmonauts have experienced as a result of orbiting Earth.

Author Frank White coined the term in his 1987 book, "The Overview Effect: Space Exploration and Human Evolution," which was based on interviews and writings of 29 astronauts and cosmonauts.

"I think we need something similar but here on Earth," De la Torre said. "But maybe we still have old problems we need to solve."

History has shown that when different cultures meet, it is usually not good for the less advanced one. If ET were to show up on our doorstep, they obviously would be much more advanced. Our manufactured products would most likely be considered trinkets, possibly to be displayed in a museum. There are scads of uninhabited planets where raw material could be obtained.

There would not be much in it for them. The best outcome would be if they wanted to study our culture. Other not so pleasant outcomes are that we could end up as house pets, zoo animals, lab animals, animals to be hunted, or food.

"...Other not so pleasant outcomes are that we could end up as house pets..."

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If the ETs are far more advanced and have some level of compassion, being house pets might not be very unpleasant and, for many today, might not really even be considered a downgrade. The worm ridden, flea bitten, hungry trailer coyote might even be quite quite envious of the Bouvier de Flanders living comfortably in the fenced estate with free-choice food.

Sit boy, SIT!

You're right, they very well might stop by to stock up on water.

This is a great comment. I especially like the 'or whatever appendage-y' part.

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Perhaps we should be slightly more suspicious of contact with some civilization if it appears the conditions on their home planet are likely to be shifting quickly due to their star's current position in the solar cycle.

Possibly not so much where their star is in its solar cycle, as stars which do cycle (not all do, not even among known sun-like stars some of which we have observed for many decades) would have done so countless times already and they survived it.

Changes in their star that would prove life-threatening would more drastic: the star's output suddenly increases or decreases, moving the habitable ('Goldilocks') zone beyond their planet's orbit, or inside it, respectively. Either way, their planet is doomed and it might be all alien arses and elbows trying to find another home.

Their star could also be entering the next phase in its evolution as it begins to exhaust its nuclear fuel. When our sun enters that phase it will balloon into a red giant, engulfing all the inner planets including Earth. The Sun will continue to balloon until it has blown-off most of its mass to become a planetary nebula leaving behind a white dwarf core. Earth will be orbiting inside our Sun one day - but only for a very short time!

Stars stable enough to support the development and evolution of life would necessarily also tend to be very long-lived. By the time our Sun exhausts its nuclear fuel it will be ten billion years old. At the moment it is a middle aged star and in no great hurry to die. There are other sun-like stars which are much older, however.

At 13.2 billion years our galaxy is nearly as old as the Universe itself (13.8 billion years). Today there are red giants which were originally sun-like stars, now nearing the end of their lives. It is conceivable that some of these also once held planets, planets which harbored life. If that life evolved to the point where it developed space flight and IF it survived its own juvenile phase (where we are now), there may very well be spacefaring civilizations out there which are billions of years ahead of us. I can scarcely imagine the sort of technology these might have, or whether they even have technology, technology which for them having been merely a crude stepping-stone to something far beyond and quite unimaginable.

ps: that image is an animated GIF. It is not animating on my browser. I'm seeing only the last frame. Direct link:

http://imgur.com/S6zbSRB

You are correct, 'solar cycle' is not the right term. 'Solar sequence'? What is the proper way to describe the various stages in a star's characteristics from beginning to ending up as some sort of dwarf, supernova, or black hole?

Thank you. That was a nice overview and great illustrations. It reminds me of how strange our reality is compared to the majority of the mass in the universe. We really are the oddball exception with our ubiquitous positive specific heat, when the stars and black holes weigh in with negative specific heat.

Hi Europium,

I've done a bit of studying of the information on the SETI website (http://www.setilive.org/). It seems the clean vertical lines are very likely terrestrial interference. If the signals showed some slant, that would show a change in Doppler shift (or radial acceleration), and they would definitely be interesting (extraterrestrial). I did some rough calculation and a 1 GHz signal would deviate about +/- 1000 Hz on a daily basis just due to the Earth's rotation (at the equator).

The waterfall grams are 533 Hz wide and 93 seconds long. This works out to about 10 Hz maximum deviation just for the Earth's rotation.

I still think post processing is useful and am working to automate the process as much as possible.

Oops, numbers are a bit off

Equator speed of rotation ~ 1000 mph ~ 1500 ft/sec

1 Ghz wavelength ~ 1 foot. Doppler shift should be ~ +/- 1500 Hz (sinusoid)

Max Doppler rate (slope) ~ 1500 Hz/radian

93 sec ~ 1/40 hr ~ 1/1000 day = 2*pi/1000 radians

Max Doppler shift change in 93 sec ~ 3*pi ~ 10 Hz