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Power Companies and Home Solar Producers

05/09/2014 1:24 AM

Obviously nobody wants to hear that I am thinking about electrical switches. I mean the kind that switch the Cities electrical GRID off when it goes down. The way it is now is that if the Cities electrical GRID goes down (like it did in the Summer of 2012) all local power producers* are coincidentally shut off from the load. The "load" being our houses. The wind is still blowing and the sun is shinning and magnetic rotating fields are still producing but there is no power to the refrigerator or the water well pump. Is this the most "stupid" engineering design that you have ever heard? The water is there but you can't drink it. You wonder why? Because your governmental legislators decided that the result would be a move to push the power hungry power companies out while local producers gained more control and self reliance. OPPS! Where is the tax money going if we let people produce their own power for nothing? The explanation I read in the SDGE supporting documentation is "We need the power off because workers will be working on the GRID and external outside the GRID produced power could electrocute our workers". Think about that. When the switch goes from GRID/ load to PVC/load (or other power source) then the switch to the GRID is open STUPID. So the technical explanation is out of the question and what does that leave that gives you a disgusting feeling? The greed of the government and the lack of concern for the public. It does not matter. What is right is right and the government, state or federal government has no right to dictate to themselves the fruit of our labor.

Somebody has to be interested so I am going to continue to write and POST until I am dead or until something happens, that I can be a part of, that will slow (or stop) the increasing Government domination of the people. My part here is to start small and take on monopolistic Utility companies.

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#1

Re: POWER COMPANIES AND HOME SOLAR PRODUCERS

05/09/2014 1:39 AM

You are in the wrong place.

Not only that, but your views are not well founded.

Apparently, San Diego Gas and Electric has wronged you.

Have you expressed your displeasure with SDGE to the local government, news organizations and regulators who may care more than an international forum composed of many people who have far more pressing problems?

Tomorrow, the wind will still blow and the sun will still "shinn", for sure. The wind may not blow where the wind turbines are and it may be cloudy where the solar panels are and the "magnetic rotating fields" may not be magnetating, but the politicians will still be getting paid.

Life sucks, doesn't it!

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#2

Re: POWER COMPANIES AND HOME SOLAR PRODUCERS

05/09/2014 2:28 AM

Perhaps focus an inquiry to SDGE as to why a properly designed and installed transfer switch fails to address their concerns. For the time being, skip the politics and bombast.

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#3

Re: POWER COMPANIES AND HOME SOLAR PRODUCERS

05/09/2014 4:50 AM

And where is your synchronisation coming from?

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#4

Re: POWER COMPANIES AND HOME SOLAR PRODUCERS

05/09/2014 5:03 AM

I think tcmtech has told some stories about synchronizing small units to the grid. Even without pre-synchronizing, the grid just slaps the little guy into line within a fraction of a cycle. Or the breaker trips and you try again. And then the normal governor/AVR controls take over. I'm sure SDGE would be unimpressed with this strategy.

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#5

Re: Power Companies and Home Solar Producers

05/09/2014 8:18 AM

I suggest you switch to decaf for a week or two

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#6

Re: Power Companies and Home Solar Producers

05/09/2014 10:04 AM

I'm sorry that you speak of the operation of the electrical grid with such frustration and anger. However, it is operational realities of the grid that dictate how it is restored or maintained in a severe condition such as 2012, NOT utility greed or government oppression.

When you understand the magnitude of the power flows, you can see that it is impossible to keep the small, distributed generators on line when something like this happens. They just have too little capacity to supply the whole load, so they are automatically shut down (it's called "anti-islanding" in the business) to keep them from being overwhelmed by the demand and do even more damage.

US utilities actually do a great job keeping the power flowing compared to other countries around the world. We generally have electricity 24/7, in almost any condition, within parameters that allow our electrical appliances to operate reliably. The few times that some disaster happens, utilities do a tremendous job of working to restore power, as evidenced by the Hurricane Sandy incident (don't believe the hoopla that the media and the state govt made - there were hundreds of utility trucks and thousands of line and station workers from many utilities on the ground almost immediately to start assessment and repairs - it was just such a broad area, so uncertain where exactly it would hit, and devastating in its severity).

If you are upset about utility costs, that is a management issue, and a financial one. Much of the utility infrastructure construction took place in the 1950s, 60s, and into the 70s. The 80s and 90s saw a lot of restructuring, utilities being sold & merged, and little investment in maintenance and new construction, as they tried to bleed $ out for their investors. Now in the 2000s, it caught up on them and there is a huge amount of effort and capital going into replacements and improvements, all the while there is greater push for reliability and the customers are demanding ever more power for their eleoctronic devices. The grid always needs to be designed and operated for the maximum amount of power that could be drawn, even if customers are not using it at that instant.

So before you go into a huge consipracy theory, first try to find out how the grid operates and you will understand why they can't do what you suggest all over the place.

Disclaimer: I don't work directly for a utility, but am a contractor who does a lot of engineering for major utilities. I have been working in this field for 20+ years, and have seen firsthand how the utilities operate in daily action. I don't always agree with their management, but the actual operation of the grid is some of the best in the world. You should be happy that your lights are on and your A/C working when you want it to be - there are many people in the world who don't have it so convenient.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Power Companies and Home Solar Producers

05/09/2014 11:48 AM

"A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver."

Proverbs 25:11

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#7

Re: Power Companies and Home Solar Producers

05/09/2014 10:37 AM

You might want to move up into the hills, put some P.V. panels on your roof and erect a wind turbine or two, then you will be happy off the grid and not subject to the "whims" of the power company.

For the real technical reasons, PeterT's posting above is an excellent explanation of why things happen the way they do.

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#9

Re: Power Companies and Home Solar Producers

05/09/2014 11:56 AM

Why complain, get to work....at the very least you will learn to appreciate what you have....

http://www.off-grid.net/

http://www.offgrid-living.com/

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#10

Re: Power Companies and Home Solar Producers

05/10/2014 9:00 PM

I am not following your complaints either.

Around here every home comes with large disconnect/transfer switch that the homeowner can wire any type of off grid power source into and switch over to at any time at their own free will. 100% legal too.

As far as I know every home has a primary disconnect switch or main breaker that they can use to shut their own power off with and be fully isolated from the grid in order to produce their own power by what ever method they want if they want to and back feed their electrical service with their own power source.

I can not imagine any utility company having a law that says you can not shut your own primary power disconnect off if you want to in order to power your home by your own means.

Now grid tieing a home built power source into the utility lines and back feeding power actively while connected to the utility power has a lot of rules which create loads of issues with the DIY power producers doing grid tie co generation.

Just shutting your own power off yourself and doing your own thing I can not see how that can be illegal. It would be no different that if you simply shut off every breaker or pulled out every fuse in your home and ran all of your stuff off of extension cords going to your own power source.

Legally the utility companies have absolutely no say in you doing that.

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Brave Sir Robin (1); europium mkII (1); Fredski (1); IdeaSmith (1); lyn (1); PeterT (1); SolarEagle (1); tcmtech (1); Tornado (2)

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