Previous in Forum: Sequence of Events in ABB S800 AI Module   Next in Forum: Type of Actuator
Close
Close
Close
2 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 100

Need Clarification on Tuned DP Transmitters

05/22/2014 11:44 AM

@ http://www.emersonprocessxperts.com/2011/05/eliminating-temperature-effects-in-dp-level-measurement/#.U34FC1hQ62x

In the above article I cannot comprehend two sentences & I request clarification

Temperature effect has two components-seal temperature effect and head temperature effect. Seal temperature effect is caused by the backpressure generated on the sensing diaphragm when the ambient temperature changes. This causes an expansion / contraction of the fill fluid in the capillary. Head temperature effect is caused by changes in the weight of the capillary fill fluid due to density variation with varying ambient temperatures exerting backpressure on the sensing diaphragm.

How are the effects classified as two?

if the temperature rises liquid expands (whereby its density is lowered) so the rise in any liquid level is compensated by a reduced density... so isn't the two effects cancel out each other. I doubt any backpressure because of this 'seal' effect

Traditionally, it was believed that the same length capillary would offset the temperature effect in the capillaries. However, it only offsets the seal temperature effect and still leaves behind the head temperature effect.

I really can't understand this. Willn't the density be lowered if the liquid expands

__________________
Chemical Engineers are like high Temperatures & high Pressures
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: dp transmitter
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Need clarification on Tuned DP transmitters

05/22/2014 12:04 PM

The density will reduce, generally, with increasing temperature. However, an increase in temperature will also, generally, cause an increase in the volume of the container. So the level on a cold winter's morning and the same level on a hot summer's afternoon will be caused by differing masses of liquid being present on the two occasions, which is a function of the two different rates of expansion of the material in the vessel and the container from which it is made. It all depends upon the level of repeatability needed from the instrument despite the process and the equipment being subjected temperature changes.

In a tuned system, any effect due to the seal fluid temperature is, in theory, cancelled out as both transmitters are operating at the same temperature and the effect on each transmitter will be the same, therefore cancelling each other out.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 669
Good Answers: 176
#2

Re: Need Clarification on Tuned DP Transmitters

05/22/2014 8:38 PM

I fully understand the seal temperature effect where a temperature change of the fill fluid in the capillary causes the fill fluid to expand or contract, and to change its density.

I'm still not sure why they call the change in fill fluid density 'head temperature effect'. There is fill fluid on the back side of the transmitter's diaphragm, inside the pressure body, as shown in the cross section of DP body sensor (minus the process heads).


This is not the remote seal diaphragm, rather the transmitter's diaphragms. The fill fluid transmits the pressure directly to the sensing element. Its volume is small in comparison to the volume of a remote seal with capillary fill. I suspect that head temperature effect might well refer to the fill fluid behind the transmitter's diaphragm.

If you note in the diagrams in Cahill's article, a tuned system uses only one capillary.

If you read further, Cahill agrees with you, that the seal and head temperature effects work against each other:

Tuned systems use the asymmetry of the system to balance seal temperature effects with head temperature effects. It takes advantage of the fact that the two temperature effects act against each other for a given change in ambient temperature.

Most people grossly underestimate the temperature effect on remote seals.

I created a 20mm offset in a liquid level measurement in about 5 minutes on a cold spring day by using the heat of my hands on a gauge pressure transmitter with a close coupled 50mm diaphragm seal on a vented tank with a static 2m of liquid. I guessing I raised the temperature less than 5 deg C. No capillary, just fill fluid in the pressure body and between the transmitter's diaphragm and the close-coupled diaphragm.

Some vendors, like Siemens publish a figures for temperature error. Others are totally silent.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Register to Reply 2 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

Previous in Forum: Sequence of Events in ABB S800 AI Module   Next in Forum: Type of Actuator

Advertisement