Previous in Forum: Active Filters and Voltage Harmonics   Next in Forum: Universal Stepper Driver
Close
Close
Close
13 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Commentator

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 55
Good Answers: 1

High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/04/2014 8:47 AM

Hi all,

I got the query from our electrical dept, about if there are any typical or standard values for the power factor cos phi of electric motor which drives the high pressure pump (72 bar, 170 cum/h if of any importance).

Any suggestions?

Thx in advance.

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: cos phi motor pump
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#1

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/04/2014 9:52 AM

Power Factor for a Three-Phase Electrical Motor

This is a great site↑. Tell your electrical department about Engineering Toolbox website.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#2

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/04/2014 11:42 AM

Power factor of an AC induction motor under load varies by the motor design and the amount of load. There is no way to accurately predict it in advance of the selection of a specific motor and the effect of a specific load on that specific motor. Values are typically measure after the fact, or estimated. That is why in most places, PF is required to be corrected to .95 or better, because that can usually be accomplished by estimating. I understand (from this forum) that some countries have enacted rules requiring .99 PF, which in my opinion is draconian. The ONLY way I think that can be accomplished is empirically. Measure under the exact operating conditions and determine the exact correction needed. Good luck.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#3

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/04/2014 10:15 PM

The only number I have seen on motor nameplates is 0.9, which would presumably be at full load. If loaded to less than full capability, the actual power factor would be lower.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#11
In reply to #3

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/06/2014 12:01 AM

That was a bona fide and relevant answer. I wonder who thought it was OT.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#12
In reply to #11

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/06/2014 12:15 AM

Not I.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long.92E,Lat.26N
Posts: 1336
Good Answers: 14
#4

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/04/2014 10:37 PM

Just like any other drive-- try to make cos phi closest to 1.0- and save on energy bills.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
2
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 2599
Good Answers: 77
#8
In reply to #4

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/05/2014 12:25 PM

Only if the utility charges a penalty for low power factor, though, Mildred!

__________________
Good moaning!
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long.92E,Lat.26N
Posts: 1336
Good Answers: 14
#9
In reply to #8

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/05/2014 1:03 PM

Crabtree-- Perfect Logic!

And more so - Where is the possibility of manipulating pressures and flowrates?

Let the Power factor FIND ITS BALANCE- even if the energy bill is not minimum!

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: srilanka
Posts: 2725
Good Answers: 5
#5

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/04/2014 11:32 PM

Check curves of motor characteristics(pf,efficiency vs load) and load the motor accordingly.

__________________
pnaban
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 55
Good Answers: 1
#6

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/05/2014 3:19 AM

Thanx a lot guys all of the replies are quite helpful.

Regarding the rules in "some countries" and the value of .99 does anybody have any idea about the Middle east, particularly Oman?

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#7
In reply to #6

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/05/2014 10:38 AM

I have only heard that issue mentioned in this forum with regards to some parts of India. If you can determine the name of the electric utility serving your destination, they might have information on their tariff structure on a web site.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: 100 miles North from the World Center
Posts: 879
Good Answers: 42
#10

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/05/2014 11:46 PM

Let's calculate the required power:

Ph = q ρ g h / (3.6* 10^6) [kW] and hwater = (p2 - p1) / ρ g where:

q = flow capacity (m3/h) ; ρ = density of fluid (kg/m3) for water =1000

g = gravity (9.81 m/s2) ; h = differential head (m) ; p[N/m^2]

Ph=q*(p2-p1)/ (3.6* 10^6)

1 bar=1.02*9.81*10^4 [N/m^2]

Ph=170*(72-1)*1.02*9.81*10^4/(3.6*10^6)=335.5 kW [450 HP]

From ABB catalogue:

For 400 V 50 Hz 355 kW General purpose steel motors

2 poles p.f.= 0.88; 4 poles p.f.=0.86; 6 poles p.f.=0.84

NEMA HV Cast iron motors 4000 V 60 Hz 450 HP

2 poles p.f.= 0.91; 4 poles p.f.=0.86; 6 poles p.f.=0.80 ;8 poles p.f.=0.76

__________________
Julius
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: KCM, chingola; copperbelt; zambia; southern africa.
Posts: 75
#13

Re: High Pressure Pump Electric Drive Motor Cos Phi

06/06/2014 4:43 AM

you can estimate from the table

Power (hp)Speed (rpm)Power Factor
1/2 load3/4 loadfull load
0 - 518000.720.820.84
5 - 2018000.740.840.86
20 - 10018000.790.860.89
100 - 30018000.810.880.91
__________________
an error does'nt become a mistake if corrected!
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 13 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

7anoter4 (1); Crabtree (1); DmanEng (1); drift (1); JRaef (2); lyn (2); MUKULMAHANT (2); pnaban (1); Tornado (2)

Previous in Forum: Active Filters and Voltage Harmonics   Next in Forum: Universal Stepper Driver

Advertisement