Another Solar Power Use For Vehicles

Something about your math is not right. (angle vs. output)

A lot depends upon your location, the yearly amount of insolation falls off significantly north of the Tropic of Cancer, since above that latitude the sun is never perpendicular to a flat surface at any time in the year.

http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook/atlas/serve.cgi

Very good and well thought out comments so far. Please keep them coming. This is a subject that is going to come up more frequently in the months ahead. Thank you all!

Good Luck, Old Salt

I'm, surprised that no body has mentioned, yet, how ineffective these would be at night.

Funny how Lyn mentioned that this will not work at night, etc. and still got a good answer (which I firmly support, unless you live in the "City of Lights"). However, others mentioned the solar panels not working in the dark, and were graded off-topic. By the way, there already is an apparatus engine on board to keep things up and running. I am not a fireman, but I passed for a lumberjack once.

Stop adding things to FIRE trucks that have nothing to do with fire. Let the EMT's handle the EMT work, but this depends on the needs of the community.

If you are referring to 7, "I'm, surprised that no body has mentioned, yet", I think it clearly indicates that the author of #7 did not bother to read the previous posts before making his comment.

I marked it OT because I thought it was inappropriate. Like everything else here, it's just an opinion.

You know Lyn, I really did read through all the preceding comments and didn't see any mention of nighttime uselessness.... so I read again and sure enough you said "darkness".

Dark things happen in the daytime too.

Sorry Sir, we can't put your your fire out, we need its light to keep our batteries charged.

Won't save a thing it is a waste of money. A dead or drained down battery is not the only reason an emergency vehicle will not start. So they will be left running anyway once they are on the scene. Looks good on paper all the savings that they will get. But it's about saving lives. No one will care that you gone green with solar panels. If their love one dies in your ambulance because it wouldn't start for a list of other reasons other then a dead battery.

Sounds like a gimmick to reap funds from emergency services that could be put to better use.

Ok, OS, here goes,

I am a firm believer in solar power. Not as a primary source though. I understand the limitations and such but do not let them immediately discount the practice.How and where are two important topics of this discussion.So here is my theoretical application of the HOW. First and this is very important. This is not "Solar Powered vehicles" as such. This is, shall we say, solar assisted vehicles.

Fire trucks, back in the day before infrastructure, needed to carry water. In most cities today that is a vestige of days gone by. A modern urban firetruck needs to be a mobile pumping station, men and equipment hauler. This will then free up considerable room and weight for batteries and such.

Solar panels on the equipment is not a good idea, especially on fire trucks due to their use and proximity to hazardous conditions. Most ambulances do not have anywhere near the roof area. Both vehicles are parked in doors in most cases. However, the station itself does have a roof. Granted this only works where the sun shines. This is a limitation and I do not see this as an option for "sunny" old England or any place the sun don't shine.

Both these vehicles have to slow and accelerate frequently when called to duty. (Ever take a ride in one say in Chicago and you will need heart medication pretty quickly) By design, this is something a diesel engine does not do efficiently. You want to run at a continuous speed and load, diesel is your best bet. For accelerating and decelerating heavy objects electric is your best bet.

In Madison we use electric dual power busses. It has cut fuel costs on those busses by half, and maintenance is likewise reduces compared to diesel only units. It takes a lot of diesel to accelerate and produces lots of nasty smoke for those in traffic which this sytem eliminates, also less brake wear is another benefit. All diesel only units are due to be phased out by 2016 BTW.

Next, dual drive is not needed as most runs to service are short and well within the range of electric power. The needed power on site can be provided by diesel generators of much smaller size and better efficiency than a main drive unit running a PTO. Or, forward thinking here, In the case of fire trucks hydrants could also be electrical power stations. (Theft is an issue. I know I live in America and I know this is not currently available, thanks.)

As for ambulances, they are not usually in need of long term hook ups so we can stick with the smaller onboard genny to run the AC and lights and such. In both applications any excess could be use to recharge as well. The fuel savings and reduced brake and mechanical wear and tear would be a plus to offset the initial start up costs.

So there is my concept proposal. Thanks for reading.

I say skip the electric hybrid, and go straight to the hydraulic-ICE hybrid. Hydraulic is mainly for accelerating and decelerating the vehicle. There is weight savings to be gained, and better control of vehicle with drive/braking motors on all hubs. Also, the hydraulic could be tapped to provide drive for auxilliary electric power, and water pumping. The ICE has to be large enough to keep hydraulic driven pumps at 100% + emergency factor.

Thank you all for you taking the time to respond to this thread. Almost all of them were well thought out and highly informative. Several of the points you brought up I am going to use when one of the "sun shine huggers" starts telling us how to construct a fire engine, whichever type it may be. Fire engines are a multi-purpose vehicle. At the least an engine (pumper) is a transportation vehicle, both manpower and equipment. Although it may not seen like it takes much brains to specify and design one there is a lot of time and skill involved with buying a new one. Even the cheapest with minimal capabilities costs at least $250,000, with the average going for $400,000 to $600,000. A ladder truck usually costs in the neighborhood of $750,000 to $1,200,000. This all dependent upon what it comes with.

My viewpoint is that trying to mount solar panels on a vehicle that uses every inch for all the equipment carried and needs to be deployed is either a waste of money or mounting a panel in a place that has better uses,

The electrical system on one is usually a 12v - 200amp or up to 300 or more amps. All those flashing lights need power. Add to them the radios the special equipment such as tower lights, water utilization devices, etc. and it uses up all that power and sometimes begins to shut down nonessential uses. The panels used in California have an output of 6-7 amps at 12v. Not very efficient for power/surface area factor when you have 2-300 amps off the diesel engine. When an engine is standing-by at an incident the output of the panels isn't of any value. Also in that situation the engines are not usually shut down so that the vehicle is ready in less time for fire use.

If your neighbors or your own, house was in trouble would you want any time with solar panels delaying the response?

What many depts. use when parked at the engine bay are power cords with connector ejectors connected to a battery charger usually with a capacity of 30-40amps. The ejector is activated by the starter switch and the connector goes away. Same with compressed air to the brakes.

Hydraulic generators are usually used to power 120/240v equipment. The bright raise able light towers are often run with this but not always. Advance in LED now make 12v more popular.

Where would you put the panels? The cab has lights on it; behind it are the monitor (high volume nozzle permanently mounted); the pump panel; the hose bed; and finally the rear compartments. Anywhere it is put them they are going to be in the way.

Solar panels, NO! More beneficial equipment, YES!

If you would like to see why, go to your local firehouse and ask for a tour. They will be delighted to accommodate a tax payer.

Thank you all.

Good Luck, Old Salt