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Want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 12:23 PM

Google wants you to reinvent a power inverter and their parameters are tough

ttps://www.littleboxchallenge.com

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#1

Re: want a million bucks?

07/29/2014 12:30 PM

Oh, your title is misleading.

I initially thought I finally had a chance to finish turning my yard into a real home on the range where the deer and antelope roam after my latest acquisition of some antelope.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: want a million bucks?

07/29/2014 12:39 PM

"... after my latest acquisition of some antelope."

CLIFFHANGER ALERT!

Oh, come on! Ya can't leave us without some expansion on this.

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#14
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Re: want a million bucks?

07/29/2014 9:34 PM

Oh, I am so torn on this one. :-)

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#2

Re: want a million bucks?

07/29/2014 12:36 PM

....and I'd like to offer a $10 million dollar prize for anyone who can invent an anti-gravity device, that can be carried around in my pocket....enabling me to leap to the top of a building in a single bound...

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#10
In reply to #2

Re: want a million bucks?

07/29/2014 3:36 PM

And to finally get an erection!!! You didn't think I could possibly resist that one, did you?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: want a million bucks?

07/29/2014 3:49 PM

Oh come on it was just that one time and I was exhausted, sheesh....never hear the end of it

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#21
In reply to #2

Re: want a million bucks?

07/30/2014 7:07 AM

Show the money first.

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#4

Re: want a million bucks?

07/29/2014 12:43 PM

Whoever invents the thermal equivalent of the diode will earn vastly more than that.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: want a million bucks?

07/29/2014 12:53 PM
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#6

Re: want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 1:45 PM

Where exactly are they getting their present sizing and power density info from?

50+ watts per cubic inch was passed a few decades ago for SMPS based power conversion. To which effect is why commercial application units capable of a KW + can be found that are no larger than a typical text book.

Also I have no idea why a household inverter needs to be small being a house usually has plenty of room to work with so a cooler sized power system is not really a space issue.

To be honest I head of SMPS systems that were pushing 100+ watts per cubic inch back in the early 90's when I was still in high school and todays high capacity micro package power switching devices were just a dream.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 4:31 PM

I agree. I'm fairly sure it can be done now with water cooling if needed. It begs the question of why bother. A smaller inverter will not change the size or efficiency of either the solar panels or the battery storage. The size of the energy producer and storage is the far more limiting factor to all off grid power installations.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 4:55 PM

why make anything smaller?" no one will buy one!

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 10:31 PM

Point well made, space and electrical demands will always be a concern in ways that may not be obvious at first. You gloss over my point that it appears to me that the inverter is already the smallest part of an off the grid installation. Making the smallest part of any installation even smaller will not make much of a difference if the rest cannot also be reduced in size. In your example, a lot of the minaturization allowed for many other parts to also be smaller. Today's net result might both baffle and befuddle Chester Gould.

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#22
In reply to #15

Re: want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 7:31 AM

O can't get past a solid state voltage regulator to handle that load and heat, existing stuff wont work. they want new components, you wont make one in your garage

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#7

Re: want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 2:07 PM

This is pretty close....

This is from '11...

"A team at the R&D Partnership for Future Power Electronics Technology (FUPET) has developed an all-SiC-device-based three-phase inverter with a 0.5-liter volume, which was verified to achieve an output power density of 30kWh/l. "We believe this is the world's highest output power density for a small-volume inverter," said Satoshi Tanimoto, chief researcher at FUPET's R&D Center."

https://www.semiconportal.com/en/archive/news/main-news/110906-nedo-sic-fupet-inverter.html

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#9
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Re: want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 2:44 PM

Hmmm, about 492 W/in3.

You'd think somebody at Google & IEEE would know about this and about others which have long surpassed their paltry spec?

Methinks there is more to this challenge than meets the eye.

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#16
In reply to #9

Re: want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 10:32 PM

Methinks there is more to this challenge than meets the eye.

The problem appears to be building a complete working 2kW DC to AC inverter that fits in a volume of 40 cubic inches.

Based on the specs it appears that they are trying to redesign the industry standard solar inverter, and a pure sine-wave inverter at that based on their required distortion figures! Now THAT is a challenge in only 40 cubic inches when existing products on the market are much, much larger!

Anyone here know of anything remotely close to 40 cubic inches as an almost complete product? Tiny switching modules alone don't count, as there is more to an inverter than the switches alone.

;)

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#18
In reply to #7

Re: want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 12:01 AM

The given units are wrong.

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#8

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 2:27 PM

Page won't load (leading 'h' missing from text and link). Here, try this: https://www.littleboxchallenge.com

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#17

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/29/2014 11:11 PM

Reminds me of that old saying:

With a little hard work, a woman can turn any man into a millionaire.

...If he starts out as a billionaire.

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#19

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 5:08 AM

There is an article here with lots of comments also:-

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/22/google_offers_one_milleeon_dollars_to_inverting_acdc_boffins/

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#25
In reply to #19

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 7:42 PM

Realy? 2 KW from a laptop sized converter that has to put out 240VAC with a 450 VDC input?

that's it?

Standard off the shelf VFD units and class D type audio power amplifiers can do that already and be beyond the 50 W/ CI power level.

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#20

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 5:50 AM

Well I'm glad they have no "manufacturability", or "costs to build" requirements!

So they may end up the the worlds smallest, and expensive device with the longest lead time from order to delivery!

The Government will love it!

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#23

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 5:58 PM

What about 4 dc motors driving a flat multi-pole alternator.....Liquid nitrogen cooled....

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 7:26 PM

Outside box thinking is also outside spec thinking!

;)

If external liquid cooling is not allowed then an external liquid nitrogen plant and associated generator is likely to be frowned upon.

;)

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 9:46 PM

I can only make one leap at a time....so solid state cooling, I didn't hear any efficiency requirements mentioned....

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 9:57 PM

from FAQ......

  • We believe that inverters will become increasingly important to our economy and environment as solar PV, batteries, and similar power sources continue their rapid growth. More broadly, similar forms of power electronics are everywhere: in laptops, phones, motors drives, electric vehicles, wind turbines, to give just a few examples. We expect that the innovations inspired by this prize will have wide applicability across these areas, increasing efficiency, driving down costs, and opening up new uses cases that we can't imagine today. It also doesn't hurt that many of these improvements could make our data centers run more safely and efficiently.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 10:16 PM

Smaller size does not guarantee greater efficiency.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/30/2014 10:26 PM

an individual wont win, it will be a company

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#30
In reply to #26

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/31/2014 2:53 AM

From the FAQ:-

"Must have a DC-AC efficiency of greater than 95%"

If that could be achieved (tall order methinks) then you only have to get rid of 100W from a laptop sized brick. I have a 100W heater here, and with all the fins it is still too hot to touch. Adding fans reduces efficiency. So better to aim for 98%?

The high operating voltage may help, but this is certainly a challenge. As Fredski says, it will be a company or university that wins, maybe together?

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#31

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/31/2014 3:00 AM

$1M is a limp-dick gesture; chump change. Just another energy dingdong with the decimal point in the wrong place.

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#32

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

07/31/2014 2:44 PM

Forget all this power density crap. Here is the Google founder's personal formula.

How to make $1,000,000!

  1. First, you take $100,000,000 out of your checking account.
  2. Then...
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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

08/01/2014 7:25 AM

Then go to jail..

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

08/01/2014 2:47 PM

But seriously, guys... If we could just find a way to tap the energy of Sharknado, it would mean a whole new era for mankind! Think of the money! Think of the stupidity! Think of the power!

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

08/03/2014 3:32 PM

No.........think of the SEQUEL !

I must admit it was a pretty good movie for what it was, and the helicopter scenes were pretty funny considering the one they had access to never left the ground.

;)

Oh wait, the sequel aired last month and Sharknado 3 has the go ahead.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/review-sharknado-2-storms-to-ridiculous-victory-20140731-zz32u.html

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#36

Re: Want a Million Bucks?

09/04/2014 2:59 PM

Fred, you link is missing an "h"

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