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Anonymous Poster #1

Dedusting Hopper Calculation

08/06/2014 2:12 AM

We are interested in fixing external heaters to maintain the constant temperature on our dedusting hopper.

The hopper dimension is 3200mm at the top and 300mm at the bottom. Height of the hopper is 2500 mm. We propose to install 1250 mm from top and 750 mm from bottom.

The composition of the material inside the hopper is

Fe: 39.76, FeO: 1.44, SiO2:8.90, Al2O3:8.6, CaO: 14.68, MgO: 4.77, MnO:1.00,

K2O: 0.247, P:0.078, S:0.13,

We want to maintain a temperature of material inside the hopper between 40 deg C to 55 Deg C. We prefer to mount 3 heaters on each face and mount RTD at the bottom on 4th face.

An average density of 1.5 g/cc is to considered for calculation purpose for the total weight.

What should be the net power required???

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#1

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 2:52 AM

It depends upon a lot of things, such as the level of insulation, the mass flowrate, the thermal capacity of the material, its water content, its incoming temperature, the ambient temperature, the ambient humidity, the local air speed etc., none of which are stated in the original post.

This is one of those occasions where experimentation is the only way forward.

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#4
In reply to #1

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 3:08 AM

Oh, and it is also likely to vary from time to time as some of the above change.

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#5
In reply to #1

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 3:33 AM

Thank you for the reply. I am only told that the ambient is 10 degrees C. The material will be in a continuous flow.

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#6
In reply to #5

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 3:34 AM

Good luck with the experiments.

<unsubscribed>

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#9
In reply to #6

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 3:55 AM

I believe you can help me with this.

Could you please tell me the approximate power required.

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#2

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 3:05 AM

It will be exactly 3 times of the the heater rating, given you take three the same kind and all have to run at the same time.

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#3
In reply to #2

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 3:07 AM

Of course.

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#7
In reply to #2

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 3:35 AM

Can you plz elaborate on your reply. It is not clear with me.

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Anonymous Poster #2
#8
In reply to #7

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 3:39 AM

Three heaters, Dude. Three times the power of one heater? Do keep up.

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#11
In reply to #7

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 4:52 AM

Ok I elaborate because I think it makes me looking better!

You did not ask what the heater requirements are but what the power requirements are.

Now this implements that you already have the heater question sorted.

This in turn means you can look up the power requirements for the heater and since you wanted to use 3 heaters it will be either 3 of the same kind or three different ones (which make no sense) so in reality if these heaters have a 5000 W sticker/label on them the will all toghether take 15000 W.

Of course you decide when to switch them on and off so the given number in the example would be the maximum power for those heaters.

All clear now?

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#12
In reply to #11

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 5:06 AM

Thank You for the answer. The problem that I am facing is on the calculation of the total Power required to heat the material inside the hopper to 50 deg. If the material didnot have a continuous flow, things would be easy but with the continuous flow, it is difficult to calculate the amount of power.

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#13
In reply to #12

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 5:31 AM

<resubscribes>

In order to calculate it, one would need to have a great deal more information than that published hitherto. Experimental measurement is viable in such a situation. All clear now?

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#10

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 4:21 AM

How much do you earn?

I ask as I think you owe your employers a sizeable refund.

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#14

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 6:54 AM

<resubscribes>

The minimum possible power needed for this exercise is the mass flowrate multiplied by the thermal capacity multiplied by the temperature difference between the outlet stream and the inlet stream. It is going to be larger than that due to loads of variables as suggested in #1 above; if the material were to come into the hopper warmer then it will be lower.

So some form of control is needed to maintain an outlet temperature within limits. The size and shape of the equipment is going to have an influence on the type of control, as the mean residence time is the volume of the equipment divided by the volumetric flowrate.

  • If the mean residence time is of the order of some minutes upwards, a simple thermostat may be all that is needed; if it is smaller, then consider something else.
  • Is the material passing through in a large cylindrical slug or can it be "thinned out" into sheets, which have a higher specific surface that can encourage heat transfer (rhetorical question - NNTR)? Are there any other shapes that can be used (rhetorical question - NNTR)?
  • Who else is doing this in similar and other industries, what do they do, how successful are they, and what are the phone numbers of the people to speak to there for advice and suggestions (rhetorical questions - NNTR)?
  • What does the original equipment manufacturer have to say on the topic and where else is it being done; what expertise can the equipment manufacturer can bring in from elsewhere without disclosing proprietary confidential information (rhetorical question - NNTR)?
  • Consider the possibility of using infra-red radiant heating rather than surface contact heating.
  • Consider the possibility of using hot air or even hot combustion products passing through the material as a heat transfer fluid in counterflow; at the moment the forum has no information on particle size distribution nor the susceptibility of the material to chemical reactions with combustion products at the temperatures likely to be encountered. Is there a combustion stream going to waste at present that could heat this material instead (rhetorical question - NNTR)?
  • Consider the need to agitate the material while it is being heated so as to prevent hot spots, crust formation, and discolouration.
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#15
In reply to #14

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 7:37 AM

Just coming back to this thread to sum this up but you beat me to it.

Its a fine documentation of the necessary engineering tools required to solve OP's problem.

GA

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#16

RE: DEDUSTING HOPPER CALCULATION

08/06/2014 8:28 AM

Hello Pal,

You won't find any better answer than #14, but here's a simpler one:

Maximum power will be the sum of all three heaters running continuosly.

How to control the ammounts of power to the heaters ?: Your PID temperature process control will do that for you.

You need to consider a revolving mixer to achieve even heat distribution thru your material's mass.

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#17

Re: Dedusting Hopper Calculation

08/06/2014 9:15 AM

Homework!

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Dedusting Hopper Calculation

08/06/2014 11:07 AM

Homework question would have provided more information.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Dedusting Hopper Calculation

08/06/2014 1:20 PM

True. Incoming temperature, rate of feed etc.

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#20

Re: Dedusting Hopper Calculation

08/07/2014 5:16 AM

You have detailed 79.527% of the ingredients. What ingredient is the remaining 20.473%?

The various oxides are all fine powders. What is the grain/lump size of the iron?

You have a cone angle of approx 62º which on fine powders will cause bridging if there is even small amounts of moisture in the product. Is your objective to prevent moisture and thus bridging or to preheat the product prior to the next process?

What is the flow rate?

Is the product ever left to stand in the hopper or is it emptied when not in use?

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#21

Re: Dedusting Hopper Calculation

08/07/2014 9:08 AM

I'm not sure of exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but it sounds as though you may be trying to keep your powder from clumping by keeping its dew point above the the clumping temperature. If that's the case, you might consider the use of a dew point meter (General Eastern or equivalent) to keep your powder temperature above the dew dew point temperature and use the heaters in a feedback loop to maintain the desired powder dew point. That will provide the best flow characteristics and the lowest power consumption.

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