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Riser Conductors of Lightning Protection System in a High Rise Building

08/09/2014 4:04 AM

Hi Friends,

The design drawings of a high rise building ( 65 floors ) in Jeddah / Saudi Arabia do show that the Riser Conductors of the Lightning Protection System ( from ground floor to roof deck ) are dedicated Steel Bars directly buried in the column concrete without PVC pipes.

Said steel risers are connected with the main earthing network at ground floor.

My questions:

I ) Is said design of the risers safe or the dedicated steel bars are to be installed inside PVC Pipes?

II ) Do we have to assign separate Earthing Rods to the Lightning Protection System then we connect said rods to the main earthing loop at soil of the ground floor or we can connect the down conductors of the lightning protection system directly to the main grounding loop at the ground floor?

I could not find in the local codes any information on the above.

Best Regards,,

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#1

Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/09/2014 5:39 AM

This is an interesting sort of question. I claim no expertise on it, and thus am speculating. Off the top of my head (and only that), I don't see why PVC pipes would matter, although they could facilitate replacing a fried grounding cable. (I.e., don't place concrete that would "hug" and thus entrap the cable.)

Perhaps you could approach the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) in your locale, and simply discuss requirements and options. Good regulatory agencies will be helpful in telling you how to comply, but not everyone has the luxury of dealing with good regulatory agencies.

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#2

Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/09/2014 6:40 AM

My experience was in power station stack lightning protection only [even of 300 m height] but we always follow only NFPA 780. So only copper conductor mounted on outside surface of the stack is permissible:

6.4 Conductors.

6.4.1 General.

6.4.1.1 Conductors shall be copper, weighing not less than 558 g per m (375 lb per 1000 ft) without the lead covering.

6.4.1.2 The size of any wire in the conductor shall be not less than 15 AWG.

However BS 6651/1999 ch.16 Down conductors 16.1 General:

"This code of practice covers the use of down conductors of various types including the use of strip, rod, reinforcing bars and structural steel stanchions, etc."

.... "Likewise, large conductors reduce the risk of side-flashing, especially if insulated.

Both codes, I think, recommend a separate grounding electrode for lightning system but connected with the main grounding grid.

BS :

ch.17.1 Resistance to earth

"An earth electrode should be connected to each down conductor."

NFPA:

4.13.1.1 Each down conductor shall terminate at a ground terminal dedicated to the lightning protection system.

4.13.1.3 Electrical system and telecommunication grounding electrodes shall not be used in lieu of lightning ground electrodes; this provision shall not prohibit the required bonding together of grounding electrodes of different systems.

BS:

17.3 Common network for all services

A common earth termination network is recommended for the lightning protection system and all other services. It should be in accordance with the recommendations of this code of practice and should also comply with any regulations applicable to the services concerned.

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#11
In reply to #2

Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/10/2014 4:40 AM

"6.4.1.1 Conductors shall be copper"

Take a magnet with you when buying. Some amazing 'chinese copy' copper lightning rods - love magnets. ;-)

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#12
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Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/10/2014 5:20 AM

I just need to correct a possible assumption. Lightning rods are normaly steel with a copper plating surface. Even earth spikes driven in to the ground are steel rods with a copper plating. Solid copper rods would be far to expensive, to soft and they would instantly melt with a strike and core quickly in the ground due to acidic soils. The important thing to check on any copper rod is the plating thickness and the quality of the steel before plating.

The connections between the rods shall be copper, i.e the conductor joining all rods. And, this can be insulated or bare copper. Aluminium conductor can be used to connect all the rods. However, the next hassle is bi-metalic connection to all the rod connections. Also, the fancy multi spiked lightning rod afixed on top of a building does not out perform a straight spike, and a recent discovery is that the spike does not out perform the rod which was used on French sailing ships at Waterloo June 18 , 1815. There lightning spikes were in fact loops fixed to the tops of the sailing ship masts and recent testing showed this loop to be far more efficient than a straight spike.

Remember a small fact, it is better to NOT attract lightning to any building, power line grounded source, but if you are the source of streamers for the area, make sure your system is of quality materials and the grounding is good.

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#13
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Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/10/2014 6:16 PM

I agree with your post,but to add a little more info,CAD welding(Thermite Welding ) of conductors solves the problem of dissimilar metals,and is vibration and tamper proof.

I had the contract to bond ALL steel beams in a large(10 acres) building.

Specs called for #4 Copper,CAD welded to steel beams.

This was in the 1980's and Ethernet (Thick Net) was to be run throughout the plant, and the engineering firm for the job specified the grounding/bonding.

Copper was much cheaper back then,but still expensive.

Interesting bit about the French sailing ship.I never heard of that before.

There are also ion emitters,that theoretically neutralize the static build up before it can create a path to the cloud.

These have not been proven to be effective.

We've not made much progress in this area in over a hundred years,although there has been much research.

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#3

Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/09/2014 7:40 AM

This beggars belief, a 65 floor building and you're asking a bunch of random guys on the internet what to do?

Get a specialist in to design the lightning system for you. In the UK I would go for Furse, they are recognised worldwide.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/09/2014 7:45 AM

Thanks.The contractor got Approval of FURSE Agent in Saudi Arabia , however I do not feel comfort.Best Regards

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#8
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Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/09/2014 4:33 PM

If you have reservations about the recommendations of one of the top lightning protection consultants I would suggest you take it up with the main contractor.

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#14
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Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/11/2014 4:12 AM

TonyS, I have been called some things in life, but, a random guy? Actually on second thoughts, it sounds quite cool, Hi, my name is....Random Guy!

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#5

Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/09/2014 9:29 AM

Lightning protection is a very specialized engineering practice. So much depends on the location and application that it is dangerous to make a generic blanket statement.

Having said that, adding a flammable insulating material to these grounded conductors will change how easily these conductors dissipate a static charge without causing an arc over lightning strike. So putting an insulator like a PVC pipe around these conductors could easily make this more dangerous instead of less.

Second, you imply that the plans call for these rods to be directly tied to the building network ground only at the ground floor. Do it! This sounds correct to me and I've seen it done this way the few times I could see all of a structures lightning protection system.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/09/2014 10:06 AM

Thank you very much!Positive attitude and useful answer.Best Regards.

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#7

Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/09/2014 11:31 AM

Is the steel bar in the concrete lighting protection for the building or grounding of the steel in the structure. One may have nothing to do with the other.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Riser conductors of Lightning Protection System in a high Rise Building

08/10/2014 12:56 AM

The Steel bars dedicated for the lightning protection system are connected with the earthing loop at ground floor.

said steel bars are not used for other reasons , only as risers to the roof deck

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#10

Re: Riser Conductors of Lightning Protection System in a High Rise Building

08/10/2014 4:40 AM

If your consultant is eager to blow the building apart and take out some office workers or residents, then encase the assumed lightning protection steel bar in concrete. One good strike to that building and it is done for.

There are IEC standards for lightning protection and Furse is a good company to advise you.

You may be mistaking reinforcing bar for lightning protection. And they could be connected to a separate lightning protection system of earth rods, mats and grids in the foundation area.

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