WI-Fi Booster and Distance

I am of like mind with TMC on trying to make the broadcast signal more directional with a DIY parabolic foil reflector. There are youtube and other tutorials on the web for just such a thing. Consider a similar antenna on the receiving end as well.

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Also, even without a reflector, even antenna marketed as omnidirectional are often significantly directional, so try different orientations of the booster antenna.

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Another big factor can be the stuff in between your booster and the TV. Depending on the type of glass, if it has a coating, and the window frame, it could present a significant barrier. The less metal and dense material you have between the booster and the TV the better. You can try positioning the booster antenna on the wall a little away from the window. Try to be away from wiring or metal pipes in the wall.

I would just run a wire....this eliminates signal theft and interference as well as speed issues and capital expenditure....

OK. I tried to avoid that, but it is a plan.

what kind of wire and where do I connect it to on the Router or the Booster?

Where do I connect it to on the back of the TV?

If you look on the back of your router you should have a number of ethernet connections....Hopefully you have an ethernet connection on the tv as well.....What is the model number of the tv, and I will try to check...unless you have the users manual that should list connectivity of the tv....probably with diagrams....

http://www.amazon.com/RiteAV-Network-Ethernet-Cable-100ft/dp/B0026HUO88

I'll look on the TV this morning. Yes, the router has a bunch of Ethernet slots as does the Booster. So with this hook up, I just do away with the Booster?

Yes, but remember that mice seem to find Ethernet cable really tasty. S.M.

That's why you run it in PVC.....

I second the PVC conduit to run the wire it, not only for the mouse protection, but because it will make later maintenance easier by an order of magnitude. If you ever need to replace the cable, or run a second cable down the same path, you don't need to dig up the yard again, just pull new wire through the pipe.

That's also why I'm a big proponent of using metal/plastic conduit in residential buildings, even if the local building codes allow for 'naked' Romex to be run through the walls. Having a secure path from box to box makes adjustments so much easier. Want to change that ceiling lamp to a lamp/fan unit? Just run another wire from the switch box to the overhead box and you can control lamp and fan independently from the wall.

Yes I would....

Why not set up another booster in the room with the TV? This worked for me.

The TV has several ports for ether net cables. Does it matter which one?

Probably one that is marked "in", or unmarked...I would check the user's manual to be sure....

For 65 feet. I would start with a good quality 802.11N WiFi router (< $100.00 USD) . They typically have multiple antennae and they tend to have much better range. Get a second wifi router to use as a repeater installed near the TV. The repeater doesn't have to be so robust. Mine is a very small one that plugs directly in the wall. (looks like a wall wart)That way the signal loss to the TV will always be high and it won't restart. I use such a setup for my Smart TV and it connects fine at about 40 ft. The transfer speeds are >100 MB/s. Adding the directional foil to the sending unit will also help as others have mentioned. Additionally, check to make sure your router is on a channel that is not too over crowded. this can cause interference and reduce your quality. There are several phone apps that can check for you.

When I asked the AMPED inc. tech about this he said the signal would be too strong for the TV to use. Does make any sense??

What brand of Repeater did you use?

Attenuating a signal is far easier that amplifying one.

The comment makes no sense whatsoever....

I am not knowledgeable at all and it made no sense to me either.

I currently use the TRENDnet Wireless N 150 Mbps Travel Router, TEW-714TRU. Its small and portable. I also use it when I travel to create a local lan in my hotel room.

'The signal being too strong' comment doesn't make sense.

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If the antenna can perform over the distance, then attenuation, as Andy notes, is the problem. The things that are the closest to the TV and to the antenna are likely to have to largest effect.

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I mentioned this earlier, but it may have been overlooked. I'm going to mention it again because it may end up being the easiest, quickest cheapest solution. Relocating your antenna so that it does not have the window or window frame between it and the TV, may be all you need.

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Being able to see through the glass makes it seem like a good place to put the antenna, but depending on the glass, any coatings, and the frame, it could represent a significant barrier to the signal.

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Try relocating the antenna on a wall in a place without wiring or plumbing. If there is any metal on the wall or other dense material in the outbuilding or house, it would be a good idea to try to relocate it so that it is not directly in between.

I would just put this antenna " 15dbi grid antenna ", or one like it pointed at the outbuilding hooked to the booster.

15db gain is more than enough to improve your signal.

It would be great if you could connect a higher gain antenna to your smart TV as it would also help quite a bit.

If you are already running mains cable there, you can use one of those network over mains adapters to get your TV signal sent....

Or look here:-

DIY WIFI-16dBi-Super-Antenna-Pictorial

I doubt if anyone else is using a LAN extender as I do in my area.....but if they did and they were using the same frequencies and they were within a 100 feet or so, yes they could pick my signals up I believe.....mine is switched off since the daughter moved out, but I will remember what you said before using it again.

Many thanks for the heads up!

I will also checkup to see if I can pick up anyone else (its a 2 way street!)....

The only such intercoms as you describe that I have had experience with (its a long long time ago!), all had 3 or more different frequencies, depending upon price....

That could mean that in your case, each house could then have their "own" frequency and only use the other ones, instead of the phone, when the want to talk to someone in that other family......

Of course, really private stuff should not be spoken about "online".....just in case!

Leaving them on all day, with the mike switched off (extra switch needed maybe?), would be a good idea too....a simple change.....with a big red LED to tell you when the mike is ON!!!

Today maybe, I would find a simple analog to digital encryption technique and add it to both (all?) my units, using some sort of encoder/decoder....also not difficult today....even MP3 could be used, as long as nobody else tries that out!!!

I also found these chips, they look to be exactly what you need, but today, you may find them already built into such an intercom!!

Even simpler to install is this complete unit with encryption and up to 1000 units on a single mains cable:-

http://www.thodukonics.com/

Just a thought!!

If the outbuilding is supplied by the primary home distribution panel via a breaker, and those conductors are code compliant (for instance # 6 THWN at 65') a newer Internet over Powerline system will work beautifully, will cost less than fifty bucks, will require no installation infrastructure, will be plug and play, will be more secure and at least as robust a connection. Toss all of the wireless stuff for this app.

Post #16?

yes, thanks Andy, I was on my phone and did not scroll back. We use IOPL almost everyday. It works very well, as long as you are not trying to share the signal and 30 amps on a piece of #12 Romex.

I have them in my house maybe for 6 years, no matter what current is flowing, no idea....

Maybe you need a better model. My WiFi is in the cellar and my daughter could not receive in her bedroom.

None of the models I have used for other people over several years have ever shown a "current" problem as you have....

I even looked on Google using "mains ethernet extender power problems", nothing came up.

Homeplug seems to be a reliable one. My one is a Denovo if I remember correctly...

.....or go for the Instructable antenna I mentioned, its really cheap!! Easily constructed.

it's not a current issue. It's a conductor sizing issue. You will get superior performance on larger conductors. We have no issues, once we realized that distance over line size was an issue. In a home, seldom do you get transmission issues because of short distances between units. When you are increasing distance, (such as the OP is) using larger conductors from a primary supply to a 60Amp subpanel in the outbuilding will be far superier in transmission quality to a 65 foot run of 12G Romex to an outlet.

Why doesn't that pop up on Google from at least one person. Even you do not have appeared to have mentioned it.....

If true, then surely a better cable needs to be laid anyway...

I looked for 30 seconds and read at least four like this.

• The longer the distance, the smaller the bitrate. Nothing to do about that; this is natural behavior." (my note, there is something you can do, if you can use a bigger conductor set between the two outlets)
  
• "Powerline signal jumps from circuit to circuit, but every time you go across a circuit breaker you have roughly 20 dB attenuation. So, when you have 2 adapters on 2 different circuits, you have to go through 2 circuit breakers which means you add 40 dB to the signal." (Note: Signal attenuation, or loss of strength, is measured in decibels. Lower is better).
• "You can have noise coming from bad quality power supplies (phone or laptop) and incandescent bulb light."
• "3-phase wiring is typically not good for powerline. As when you have to change from 1 phase to another one, you lose power, then performance." (Note: Three-phase wiring isn't too common in residences, but it's used in some homes).
• "Old and deteriorated power lines will give less performance." (my note read undersized conductors common in old residences)
  

It's a voltage loss/attenuation/modulation issue (take your pick) All exacerbated by distance/conductor sizing.

If true, the cheap antenna is a good move.

Someone here got nearly a mile(?) with an antenna.....

How about, if true, it would be important to know what conductors are running from the main to the remote site? If it is a 60 amp service run with 6 or 4, the powerline solution should work pretty well. OP, what service and wire is already run to the outbuilding? I'm working toward not having to work on this.

60 AMP service.

I am going to try two things before I lay pipe:

one is the in room repeater that was mentioned. Plug it into the outbuilding's 120V recept and see what happens.

two is to try a directional antenna attached onto the booster in my house.

third; we lay pipe! Type of wire will be looked at as there have been some good ideas as usual.

If you go the wire in pvc route, get the waterproofed gel-filled direct burial cat 6 wire, as being buried in pvc pipe you do not need it to be shielded.

I would suggest the wire route, as it is a lot more secure! If you put a switch on the end you can have better network performance with multiple clients at the outbuilding.

I was playing with my Buffalo Whr-hp-g54 with 15 db antenna mounted in window and my laptop using a usb wifi hooked to a dish, and was easily able to get full over 6 blocks away. Direct line of sight I can get over a mile with a consistently good signal.

That is important information and a truly massive distance.....its really great to know exactly what is possible....if ever I need it, I now know what to do....

So what you are also saying is that the 65 yards is really easy to cover....

I also found this mentioned on the instructable by someone:-

2-4ghz-8dbi-sma-high-gain-dish-directional-antenna-for-wifi-wireless-network-2400-2483mhz

It costs around $11, but was recommended to replace the cable with a better type for long distance usage.....

im sure this is a stupid question, but why should RF 2.4ghz run significantly better on 6 awg than 12 awg? skin effect? voltage drop? both? I would think 12 awg should be more than sufficient to carry a signal or 2 watts at the most. especially since CAT 6 is on the order of 22 awg.

I have to agree with you completely.

I did a Google search and could not find anyone who had problems due to either the cable size, or the amount of current flowing through it...with such extenders.

Mainly I believe simply because the frequencies used are FAR above that of the mains and are a voltage almost without any current, and should not be affected by the mains current.

But I am always willing to learn something new, so let us see!

Internet over power line protocols do not transmitt in RF at 2.4 GHZ. If it were, you would not need power lines.

The IEEE Std 1901-2010 is a standard for high speed (up to 500 Mbit/s at the physical layer) communication devices via electric power lines, often called broadband over power lines (BPL). ^[1] The standard uses transmission frequencies below 100 MHz.

If you have a power line run to the structure, you do not need to "lay pipe"

I give up. They work well in many applications, but you need to be able to read.