A Compilation of GAs From A Hydrogen Energy Thread

Sounds conspiratorial, but I don't believe that any technology that frees us from the grid is going to see the light of day...at least not large scale. I've seen too much evidence that it will be supressed.

There's simply too much money/ political power at stake to allow us to make and use our own electricity.

Once we realize that "saving the planet" is nothing but an agenda driven political talking point that is designed to guilt us into giving up our rights and subjecting ourselves to slavery, along with the entire global warming hoax, one has to accept the fact that without a full scale revolution from the "little people", we will continue to have our lives controlled by the corporate/ political oligarchs.

I know I get yelled at for being too political, but there are government agencies, (local, state, and federal), that are preventing people from raising a few chickens or having a vegetable garden on their own land...they're sure not gonna stand for us generating our own electricity.

Anything that smacks of a relatively easy transition to independence from the systems that we have been cultured to depend on, will be regulated out of existence.

I'd love to hear a politician say that the key to solving global warming is to eliminate the grid and move to small, independent power generation.

It will never happen.

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Sorry Fredski but I have to agree with Kramarat. I tried to go off grid, and low and behold I got a visit from my local power company. Informing me that if I did not hook back up to the grid they would have my home condemned. Seems that in the scheme of things because of rural electrification, I am forced to hook to the grid whither I want to or not. And with that a side note they don't have to pay me for any excess power if I am on grid with a grid-tie inverter they can give me credit for it but not pay. So when do I get my excess power paid for after I move out and sell the house by selling the credits to the new owner, or giving them to the new owner to sweeten the pot to make a sale. I have to agree with him that every time I deal with local ordnance people they have their own agenda that does not agree with mine or most of the people in our small community as we are ruled from 20 miles away by a bunch of (YUPPIES & GEN-Xers) that moved into rural area's. Then want all of the things they left to get away from. AGGGH now you all have got me started I will be on this tie-raid for at least a week. Maybe I will just go work on my old motorcycle now that I am old and cranky I can work on my old and cranky 1957 Iron head K-model, Since I am only two days older than it is.

Duke!!!

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"...I'm sure it's a coincidence that we started "helping" Liberia in 2010, and now it's the center of the Ebola outbreak...."

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How incredibly irresponsible. Are you practicing to be a 'conservative' AM talk radio host? ...or perhaps you are hoping that by asserting vague but completely baseless associations, Fox News would take notice of that special combination of passion for derision completely devoid of ethical restraints.

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How utterly jaded and morally bankrupt, to use the deaths of thousands of people in this outbreak, as just one more thing to jab at the elected officials that you delight in hating so much.

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The United States helped Liberia from its very beginning. The US was not willing to work with the government of Liberia from 1989 to 2003, during the Charles Taylor period, but suggesting that we 'started ''helping'' Liberia in 2010' is factually wrong. However, implying that the ebola outbreak of 2014 in Liberia could be tied to US involvement there is ethically wrong.

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Shame on you kramarat.

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complete baloney!

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Sure, I'll discuss your review:

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1) Nothing to argue about here. This seems very consistent with mainstream anthropogenic global warming ideas...i.e. a lot more coal derived MW hours and a lot more petroleum fueled vehicle miles, in Africa or elsewhere is the big concern for those who agree/accept the larger tenets of that model.

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2) Once again, your assessment and summary of the facts is very reasonable.

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3) ...and the first problems begin:

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"...The hydrogen system described by Nocera is purchased lock, stock and barrel by the US military industrial complex, eliminating the possibility of Africa, or anyone else, from seeing it come to fruition...."

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I hope you can see how this comment is different from the previous comments. In this third comment fail to make any distinction between facts of reasonable certainty and menacing plots that have fearfully grown in your imagination.

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Flow Batteries have likely been the larger part of that business for some time, the fact that the artificial leaf technology did not get all the lip service in PR about the purchase, is far far too little 'evidence' that the technology is being suppressed.

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This failure to vet ideas before you begin ranting about the imagined calamity as if it were foregone conclusion, is grossly irresponsible. Whether you are spreading and repeating baseless accusation about the US deliberately infecting masses of people with HIV or Ebola, or whether you are preaching as truth your fears about the suppression of technology, it is dishonest to misrepresent fantasy as established fact.

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4) This one has a statement that is valid, but you seem to be implying that they bought the whole company for the flow battery at the exclusion of the artificial leaf, for which I have yet to see convincing evidence.

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5) and 6) aren't problematic.

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7) Is factually correct, but it is obvious that you are trying to imply that the US has played a deliberate part in causing the epidemic, i.e. chose to infect masses of people. Note that the patent is for means to identify the strain and for work on developing immunity to the virus.

At the very least, grow a pair and stop inferring, implying, and using innuendo to hint at and suggest these accusations. Have some integrity. If you think the US government is or has been infecting people with Ebola, or HIV, then stand up on your hind two feet and make specific accusations along with an supporting evidence as a dignified upright citizen.

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The line of reasoning you keep returning to, which seems to be something you rely on heavily to justify beliefs that you desire to hold... that line of reasoning, which seems to be fundamental to your system for valuing concepts you encounter...that line of reasoning is well studied, so well studied for so long that it even has a Latin name:

argumentum ad ignorantiam

Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition should be considered true if it has not yet been proven false.

This particular line of reasoning belongs to a category with other similar lines of reasoning. The category is called a logical fallacy.

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"....I have been unable to find proof that Farrakhan is lying or mistaken. Perhaps tinac can enlighten us with his evidence to the contrary....because truth is not a compromise.

Lets see the facts...."

This argument formula that IQ and you, Kramarat, return to again and again can be described as an assertion that:

'Whatever has not been proven false, must be true, or conversely whatever has not been proven true must be false.'

The Latin name for this argument is 'argumentum ad ignorantiam' It is also known as an appeal to ignorance or an argument from ignorance. It is one of the more well known logical falacies.

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An interesting thing to note is that this fallacy has been studied for so long, that people who fall into this fallacious method of reasoning act somewhat predictably. For example, very often people using this type of argument will attempt to use their fallacy to justify a shift in the burden of proof, such that they are free to make whatever fanciful claims they like and it is up to others to disprove.

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That seems to be exactly what you did.

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I' have no intention of run around trying to verify or validate your odd and sundry paranoid fantasies, but if that were not the case, tell me Kramarat, what kind of proof would I be looking for? What exactly would you find sufficiently compelling proof that would allow you to accept the US did not commit the outrages you suggest?

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While I can imagine types of evidence that would suggest guilt in this situation, trying to come up with what kind of evidence would establish innocence has me stumped.

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So please share with me what this evidence would consist of. You say you have not been able to find this proof the US was not guilty of these accusations, which implies you were looking. So what exactly were you looking for, Kramarat?

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"...However, I do admire you for your belief and steadfastness in your belief...."

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You'll have to find something else to hang that admiration on. You have mistaken my unwillingness to accept baseless accusations as a distinct belief, but it is not.

My rejection of accusations with no backing does not qualify as a belief any more than atheism qualifies as a religion.

I don't want to be completely negative here, so here is something positive I can write about your most recent comment. You seem to be diversifying and not relying exclusively on the argument from ignorance logical fallacy. You have apparently now are working to incorporate the false dichotomy logical fallacy into your assertion. Good for you for broadening your horizons.

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I am not attacking Kramarat or you. I am chiding both of you for basing your evaluation of information on a process known to be faulty. I am also expressing my revulsion at the willingness with which the two of you, disseminate and attempt to justify outrageous accusations completely devoid of anything establishing there might be some truth to it.

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Here is the thing... I like having Kramarat's participation in this forum. We certainly disagree on many things and have been in more than a few acerbic exchanges. But I have read enough of what he writes to know with a high degree of certainty that Kramarat has a good heart. He displays a seemingly irrepressible desire to right important wrongs. I think he sometimes gets hoodwinked, as we all do in varying degrees, into believing in a wrong that probably isn't factually correct, and there can be harm from spreading some of those things, but I don't think he is ever being willfully malicious....i.e. if he is championing something it is something he believes.

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So understand that my words are not an attack to drive Kramarat away... his absences are noticeable and detract. While I don't know you as well, as long as you see my comments to you and to Kramarat as similar enough to lump together in one classification, then you can be assured that there is not attack.

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That said, you owe it to yourself quit logical fallacies, cold turkey. Reviewing wikipedia articles on logical fallacies might be worthwhile, so that you know what to look for.

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Just a reminder of what a special place this is. What's hydrogen?

Perhaps we should stop using the rate button as a way to mete out punishment or reward, and use it to rate answers that are informationally pertinent to the subject.

Just a thought.