(Electric) Rotary Wing

Soooooo...

The little elec motor with the red plastic prop spins, the driven red propeller provides thrust which pulls the large spar (which is actually half of a rotary wing, so there are two spars and two little elec motors), and the whole affair spins fast enough to generate harvestable lift? Okay, I got it.

Now you want to hang an electric automobile under this rotary wing assembly, the battery of the EV providing the energy for the little motors, the idea being a cheap, simple, easy to operate rotary wing aircraft... for people... not a toy.

Is this about the size of it?

No that is 2nd. r/c version Just over 6' by11"rotary wingspan! To Lift a Small Auto A (Smart ) car Would take Full sized Wings With Much Bigger Motors!But I think they could lift it? Look at quads all thrust Where has the Wing gone.A Helicopter Blade is Far from a Lifting Wing On an Aircraft.The Larger wing lifts at lower r.p.m.s Perfect for (Electric) motors & props.!

"The Larger wing lifts at lower r.p.m.s ..." Not necessarily, but it's okay enough for now. We'll probably get back to that later.

Just to be certain that I understand, you are claiming that the airfoil in the image in your original post is functioning as described?

I don't know if there is any material that could withstand the forces needed for the blade/wing...I also don't think the prop drive could reach the speed needed...Look at the Osprey....also a lot of the lift would be lost the closer you get to the rotational axis, note the design of the Osprey rotor blades...with a tip speed of 661.90 fps ~451 mph....Maybe a very lightweight version would be possible...

The Props do all the Lifting when in V.T.O.L. Position? My Wing would be Turning at this point and Lifting the Vehicle.My props Turn a Large Wing! The wing Lifts when Rotated! The larger wing does not have to rotate as Fast as those lifting props.

I Never liked Tilt rotors.Loose power on 1 side and your dead.Mine can loose a Motor or Both & Still land Safely.Not so with other Tilt,quad,tri,or dual rotor Aircraft.An E.V would make a Comfy Cockpit! These r/c version are Toys Yes But could be Used as U.A.V. Carrying Larger payloads longer between charges.There is no comparison between props turning a Wing & Props doing all the Lifting?There is no Rotary wing Wing Lifting the Osprey Just the Props?

Yes you are Correct in Stating How it Works! Would have to be Up Scaled to Lift an E.V. It could then be Programmed? A (Google ) Craft I guess? You've got it!

Well, let's have a think about this, all right?

We only have your RC model to look at, so let's use that for now. As scale increases, these two will get more problematic.

6'-11" dia spars, with the little motors about 3" inboard. So they will travel in a circle diameter of about 77". This makes a travel of about 240" per revolution of the main rotor. Let's make a LOW guess of 800 RPM... these little props need to be pulling HARD for a distance of 240"/revolution at 800 RPM = 192,000 inches per minute, or about three miles per minute. Now, these props have to bite into air that was just spoiled by an airfoil passing through it. I'm seeing a little bit of concern here.

Let's say this little problem is solved. As the main rotor is pitched for forward motion, we now have a very large problem with constant variation of the incoming speed of the air which the little props must bite into. At the moment the spars are amidship (perpendicular to the direction of vehicle travel) one little motor has a big headwind, and the other motor has none. This condition swaps (in our presumed example) 800 times per minute, for each little motor.

My friend, please don't think I'm discounting your idea. Constructability and practicality are often at odds with good ideas. However, I suggest a solid run with the numbers before proceeding further. This may be a case where 'It'll never fly.' is applicable.

I can see a 3 blade Being a Problem.But what about those Helicopters with 8-12 Blades?The Air in front of those is disturbed.They are not Little motors They are Typhoon Brush less motors High Performance Those are not the props. I'm using! I am open to suggestions on Motors But, those Typhoon 2W-23 Were Highly recommended!1st lifted & I split 1 Battery between 2 Motors Maybe got Half throttle?Battery in each wing on 2nd.Those 1st motors were small Brush gear reduction motors! Had to counter rotate wing motors with reverse props. to get correct Air flows! Changing direction allows me to Use (Stock) wing motor rotation & props.With Air being pulled In & Over Wing! 1st. had fixed pitch.Want to put Real r/c Hub with linkage on 2nd. Waiting on Funds.See Hillers 1st prototype before going with Jet tips.He built an (Electric) version with motors & props. It took of like a Rocket.Mine lifted 2 ft. His went up about 40 ft. It is very Impressive Before getting you Mind set on it's Failure Remember! It does Work! With simple controls.If my 1st didn't lift I would not be pursuing it.There are only about 3 seconds of his electric version (Flying) that I could find? But I had started Mine before seeing it. Check them out on you tube Bell & Hiller Beginnings!Oh it Works Alright! I'll make video soon.Then it's of as a Unit Carrying E.V.s down those Highways in the Sky?

The problem I see when scaling this up is the motor will rotate on the wing. This means you move a lot more weight and it will become a structural challange and lets not assume one of those will fly off. If so whats happenign with the blade? Things that can go wrong will go wrong. Then of course what do you suggest for steering and propulsion? So far I can only see lift.

Post a movie if you get this to work.

See the Hiller Jet tip video Tail Fin for control.Tilt Rotor forward (Move) forward tilt back go back Watch video on you tube All other controls are Demonstrated with Tail fin! Must see video or wait for Mine?They are Very similar Hillers electric version Is almost Identical to Mine!! I'm trying to find Best light weight motors available! Larger Wing will Mount & Hold motor No Problem.

You haven't seen the Hiller Jet tip rotor blade video yet? Please view that and it will explain everything! Watch for a few seconds of the (Electric) version Must see video to understand controls?

If the Air was spoiled between 2 wings You are saying that all Helicopters have this problem? In forward flight you have a retreating wing! But this would only come into play at Fairly High forward speed! Which Mine is not designed for?

You fail to grasp the point and the concept entirely!

Never mind.

I suspect that transverse flow effect will manifest at about 2 knots with this scheme, this manifestation being a ridiculously complicated form of phase lag and lift dissymmetry which will be extremely difficult to compensate.

"If the Air was spoiled between 2 wings You are saying that all Helicopters have this problem? " Helicopters pull clean air from above... creating lift. In your project, you are also counting on your woefully undersized traction motors to pull dirty air from the rotational plane of the rotor disc.

If your vision is to scale this up, you really are taking a very complicated machine and making it even more complicated.

[edit] "I have Faith this will Work (Great) Over powered if anything!" Yikes! Good luck to you, remember me when you're rich and famous.

No, wait. I have first an observation and then a question for you.

People who work and live in the realm of rotary wing aircraft will tell you a helicopter is a collection of 88,000 mechanical parts, most of which are supposed to move, all of which DO move. I suspect you scheme of hanging an EV under a set of rotating spars will, in short order shake the living daylights out of the car.

Is this an overall attempt to achieve the work of, say, an 80 HP engine using only a few thousand watts? As I reconsider your scheme, it sort of looks that way.

Yes But, those little electric motors are High performance Brush less motors that will have 6+5 props. Typhoon 2W-23 I have had others suggested after purchasing these?They are Fairly light motors.The Wings have no Problem supporting them!

Well, pusher props would be better than tractor props in this application and the motors to drive them would be too heavy for the rotor to support.

Hiller had 45 HP motors on each tip.

Good luck, start a blog and we'll follow it.

The tractor props. Pull air in and Over Wing which works well! I have changed direction of rotation Getting correct Air flows with (Stock) wing motor rotation & props.Split 1 Battery between 2 Brush motors & it still Lifted Can't wait to Fly 2nd. With a Battery in each Wing Between 1&2 ribs.Leaving just 3 Brushes from receiver to e.s.c.s before Split.It lifted at about 1/2 Throttle on 1st.! That' all I could get with 1 Battery for 2 Motors Small Gear reduction types! I have Faith this will Work (Great) Over powered if anything!

I don't see your spar in your wings.

The rim speed of rotary wings is quite large, will those little props be able to handle the stresses involved. Not to mention the gyroscopic forces created.

There were a lot of research done where they used Tip Jets on the winglets. Ram Jet is the simplest, but not the most efficient.

not re-reading the posts, but there is not enough thrust from the props.

if they do anything its break up the turbulence at the tip, but I doubt it.

One other thing, do you realize the about of 'G' force that will be putting a strain on your propeller assembly.

Good luck,