LS(IS) Circuit Breakers

I have just finished a 3-week design stint at a company that is using the LS brand of MCBs and contactors in its line of bottle-filling machines.

They all look pretty much identical to offerings of the same type from Schneider, GE or AB and seem to be reliable and properly constructed.

Thank you for the input. Much appreciated.

Just be careful about the interrup ratings at the points where it looks like they are offering better prices. They tend to be lower rated than what you might expect from others. For example I seem to recall that where an ABB or Scheider MCCB may start at 35kAIC as the lowest available in the more modern versions, the LSIS is 22kAIC where they are price comparable, things like that. That's not to say they don't make higher rated versions, it's just to point out that people often compare based on price alone, then discover too late that they were not equal. Compounding that problem is that companies that sell LSIS tend to be third or fourth tier resellers, most of which focus mainly on price, and therefore have poorly trained employees who fail to bring up the proper issues.

I too worked for a company that switched from ABB to LSIS, and this burned us big time. I was not consulted before the purchasing dept. made the change and when i brought it up, i was told by management that it wasnt worth making an issue over it. But it burned us big time with getting UL listings on our products. When I tried to get LSIS to give us a higher rated version, their price was higher than ABB, then when I tried to go back to ABB, they stuck it to us, because they knew. The end result was that in attempting to get a lower price, our purchasing dept. blunder ended up losing margin for us.

Thank you JRaef. Your experience with the brand shared is very much appreciated. We will be sure to take note of the kAIC ratings. Still LSIS seems to have a cost advantage when compared to ABB or Schneider for a particular kAIC requirement, maybe this is due to that they have lower ranges to offer.

Also, if i may ask, what was the problem with using LSIS with regards to your product being listed with UL, were they not acceptable to them?

Your response is sufficient though. Thanks a many!

The problem we ran into had to do with the UL listings of the breakers we used having lower interrupt ratings than what we had been using, which affected the final ratings on the product we made (Soft Starters). We advertised various minimum ratings on the overall product and could no longer make those claims with the LG (now LSIS) breakers. From a quality and performance standpoint I cannot offer an experience, because we ended up having to abandon the change and revert to ABB, even though we lost our bargaining power.

I can however impart a different bit of knowledge for you that might be helpful based on my tenure (after that job) at another large German equipment mfr where I was a product specialist for circuit breakers.

MCCB prices are not based on cost to manufacture, they are whatever the mfr thinks they can get, because all mfrs have their costs reduced to ridiculously low levels compared to what we pay in the market. For example at the larger German mfr I worked for, our end user suggested price was a .53 multiplier on list (the actual dollar amount is unimportant, this is for scale). Small OEMs and panel builders could buy at a .26, larger OEMs that bought in volume could buy at a .18, but I had the authority to go as low as a .06 multiplier if there was a strategic importance to converting an account, and trust me, they were STILL making money at a .06 multiplier, so compare that to the amount they would make at a .18, .26 or a .53! The point is, if ABB is aware that you might switch to LSIS, they can meet the price if they want to, but will still attempt to hold on to margin in any way they can, for instance in knowing that you have a cost involved in making a change (engineering testing, documentation, etc.). But if they fail to negotiate to keep your business, it means they don't really want it.

Wow, bonus. Thanks JRaef. This is valuable info. I know wire suppliers among others does similar, just never thought that it is done with CB also. Thanks a lot! I'm assuming 0.53 meant 1.53 x Price on price list. Selling on 0.06 would be awesome and shocking.

After re-reading your response, I guess the kAIC ratings did not comply with the UL requirement for your installation.

I have now taken the time to look over the LS range of products more fully.

They appear to be a Korean company. Their product range looks to be reasonably complete, it is all of the IEC-type. It looks to be reasonably well-constructed, and the catalogue has all of the data that you would expect to need if using these products in a design. I note JRaef's warnings about MCCB KA ratings, these are all given in the documentation and they don't look to be that much different to other manufacturer's IEC offerings in this area.

Living as I do in an IEC country, I am quite familiar with the products of the main manufacturers. On occasion, I have looked over various oriental minority-brand imports and seen problems such as poor build quality, poor quality control, lack of proper certification etc. I have also seen items that are a blatant rip-off of a major manufacturer's products. I see little sign of any of these problems with the LS brand, and so I am inclined to give them a cautious, provisional tick of approval.

Thank you Paulusgnome. Your comments on the brand will somehow rest our worries. We ourselves from perusing their product brochures cannot find sustantial difference with the other brands, aside from that they are relatively new, such is the reason for my "extraculicular" consultation. As suggested though, we will remain cautious.

Thanks a lot.

Hi,

LS is a relatively strong brand in my geographical area (South East Asia); I do really have no qualms over LS brand circuit breakers..... I mean compliance to standards and having been certified so by credible accredited test labs would speak well for the brand itself. Maybe it is the marketing techniques, like the KA rating thingy mentioned that we should all be more careful about.

BTW, has anyone of you out there come across CBs, or for this matter, transformers with aluminium insides but copper terminals? Please share your info.

Regards.

While compliance to standards is essential, it is only the first of many considerations that affect a decision to use one brand and not another.

Reliability, robustness of construction, product history all play a huge part and knowledge of these is informed by experience - my own and that shared by others in the industry.

Quite often, my customer/employer will have preferences of their own as to which brand to use.

Price is always going to be a factor, but not always, it depends on the application. In any case, the big manufacturers can match whatever price they have to if needed to keep the customer as we see above.

This can undoubtedly be a bit frustrating to anyone trying to introduce a new brand into the market, but it can't be helped. Its the way things are.