Building Electric Toy Train from Scratch

I doubt this forum is the right place for this discussion.

Maybe try some of these:

Model Train Forum - the complete model train resource ...

Model Railroader - Trains.com

ModelRailroadForums.com - Model Railroad Forum and ...

There are more forums on the net.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GumxKIfjclE

https://www.lionel.com/customerservice/ReplacementParts/INDEX.cfm?DOACTION=productPartFilter&PRODUCTID=9790AA37-664F-4C64-B4D5AFF1188481BA&resultsPerPage=75
http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/question-on-lionel-pullmor-motor-and-magnetraction

Thank you for you comments and help.

The model train forums typically have to do with repair, which I am set up for with the Lionel shop manual with exploded diagrams, part numbers, tips, etc.

The reason I rustled the nest of actual engineers and professionals is the idea of actually manufacturing a motor, by hand, from metal stock, wire, and a dream. :-)

The more engineer-oriented (pun intended) forums are about building steam locomotives out of raw stock as opposed to "O gauge" or roughly 1/48 scale electric toy trains.

I appreciate your input!

It's a simple basic motor, while avoiding the obvious question as to why you would want to build this motor from scratch, what questions do you have specifically?? You seem to be asking for a design? There are better designs for train motors, so why would you choose this design, and for what amount of power do you require?

It's a simple basic motor, while avoiding the obvious question as to why you would want to build this motor from scratch, what questions do you have specifically?? You seem to be asking for a design? There are better designs for train motors, so why would you choose this design, and for what amount of power do you require?

I'm wanting to be able to come up with a design that is similar to the style of the 622-100 Pullmor motor, in that it would be serviceable, open-frame, and run on AC power, that could be used in a few different trains.

The pipe dream is a small company that makes hand-built toy trains utilizing the skills of people who are getting few and farther between, helping people learn those skills who are finding it harder and harder to find good positions in the workforce, such as veterans.

So, to start making an electric toy train, you'd want to come up with a motor that was "yours," that could be used either horizontally or at an angle to a driving gear.

I wasn't really asking for a design, but more if anyone had any experience building motors like that for fun or a hobby or because they had an Edmund Hillary moment, just to see where knowledgeable people might point me to for further study and plotting.

They would need to run on the same specs as a post-war Lionel or American Flyer AC transformer, with a maximum of 20V. We don't want nice trains flying off tables onto concrete floors…

By "better designs," were you speaking of DC can motors with flywheels? If so, that's not the tree I'm barkin' up. They're nice, but they're so smooth and nice it's almost boring to me. The aim is to go "retro," as people are trending towards mechanical movement watches, vacuum-tube amplifiers, and seeing "hands-on" machinist's skills creeping back in from the shadows of CNC work.

I didn't mean to cause such a commotion. I just wanted to know if any of the folks on the forum had ever messed around making open-frame motors for fun after designing or servicing hi-tech sealed, brushless DC motors and starting at PCB's all day.

I appreciate everyone's comments and time, and realize my question was along the lines of, "What kind of guitar should I buy?," that people ask me sometimes.

I enjoy the newsletters (I don't automatically put them in the "trash"!), and I've picked up a lot of very useful information from reading them.

Have a good weekend!

Well then I'll offer up this website as a valuable source of info....

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_13/1.html

....and wish you good luck, keep us posted on your progress...

I made one of these when I was a kid. It was fun to build and it worked surprisingly well! It's a far cry from what you have in mind, but maybe it's a starting point.

Upon looking at the posted pictures of the exploded motor, it seems similar to some of the large number of motors I have disassembled for one reason or another. If you would consider substituting a motor that is already designed and tested it would make the R&D of the project less time consuming, as well as giving you a supply of spare parts. Also the "tooling up" to produce the motor could be cut, saving expense on the initial investment. Just a thought.

Did you mean a "Universal" motor? As found in vacuum cleaners, mains drills,kitchen mixing machines and other "hand" equipment.

A further problem you will have is that you will need extra field switching to allow the motor to drive in reverse....something that most model trains need to be able to do, in my limited experience....but I am very "behind the times", so update me!!

Thanks.

Andy. Good question. I'm an HO scale fan and that scale is DC. YOU ARE CORRECT INTHEQUEYION OF HOW TO REVERSE an AC motor

Apparently the "Universal Motors" don't work well in small applications like toy trains as they do in larger more industrial applications from what I've read.

10-4 on the reverse. That's usually handled in older post-war trains by an electro-mechanical "E" unit, or "reversing unit," with the action of a solenoid's activation causing a drum with contacts on it to rotate, and offer different combinations for the input of voltage when voltage is taken away (throttle is cut to zero, solenoid drops), and when it is energized again (solenoid rises to attention) by the AC power from a step-down transformer (throttling back up again).

The solenoid has an arm that catches a tooth on a gear attached to the cylindrical drum that's on an axle - suspended between the two flat side plates of the E-unit, causing the drum to rotate to another set of contacts. You can repeat this ad nauseum.

The typical cycle is Forward-Neutral-Reverse-Neutral-Forward, or:

Throttle up: Forward.

Cut power: Train stops and its lights go out. Solenoid goes "clunk!" as it drops.

Throttle up: Neutral. Train is in neutral, voltage only causes the lights of the train to come on.

Cut power: Solenoid goes "clunk!" as it drops. Lights on train go off.

Throttle up: Reverse. Lights on train come on, train now moves in reverse.

Cut power: Solenoid goes "clunk!" as it drops. Train stops, and lights go out.

Throttle up: Neutral. Only the lights on the train come on.

Cut power: Solenoid goes "clunk!" as it drops. Lights on the train go out.

Throttle up: Forward. Lights on train come on, train moves forward again.

And so on.

Referred to as "that buzzing E-unit," it sounds like some really angry metallic bees when it's activated, and for me and many others, it's actually part of the electro-mechanical charm of the old Lionel trains.

The E-unit is something I might consider more readily as an installed part, concentrating the main focus on tooling, although with the right stock and the right jigs…

Most people use PCB reversing units now.

It would be entirely possible to use bulk frames from a supplier, as well as motors (DC can motors with momentum flywheels are popular), mechanical E-units or PCB's that do the same thing, even the wheels and trucks, and simply assembly them with a fair amount of skill into a working engine.

That's kind of not what I'm thinking about. That's basically building a model, not building a train that's your own.

I could always start there certainly, just to get the lay of the land. As I see it now, the only thing I'm having trouble envisioning making, and that's taking for granted that I'll come up with some hard data as far as measurements for engine parts and windings as a starting point at some point, is fabricating the frame and a locomotive's steam or diesel body. And the E-unit. Not sure what to do about that.

And…I'm ready for the idea that it might take me a while to figure out. I'm pretty used to having to teach myself how to do things as I do them, which can quickly turn a 45 minute job into 10-12 hours laborious effort. But, nothing can replace that, "Yeah…I did that!" feeling…

I'm also a stickler for detail and doing things right, even if no one cares if I do or not. I do, and that's enough.

Let's put it this way: When I loaded my first 45acp rounds with my reloading setup, it took me 10 hours to load 16 rounds. T-e-n. H-o-u-r-s. But…they were really, really well made, and after that, I pretty much have that Turret pressed as my personal ammunition bee-azzh.

The older you get the more you understand that good things don't always come together quickly. I learned that from having to wait for trains I wanted in January that weren't produced until the following February. That was of course when I ran a successful business. Those trains weren't cheap!

I've got my eye on a 7 x 14 lathe. Unfortunately, that's all I've got on it at this time. It's okay though, I've got one helluvan eye. SS doesn't leave a lot for $800 lathes and money for accessories to boot. It will take quite a while to get, and I'll have to sell something to get it, but I'm studying machining in between studying for school so when that day comes, I'll be ready.

Heck, it's getting to the point I can't even watch a decent film on DVD to relax like I used to. I wind up researching things while the movie's playing, losing track of it completely after about 10 minutes.

What happened to being satisfied playing "Armored Core: For Answer" for 8 hours straight? I can't even sleep for 8 hours anymore. Too much stuff I want to learn how to do.