Has Porsche Adopted Tesla's Thinking?

I love the torque vectoring for handling, lets see a "ring" time

Maybe Porsche has adopted Tesla's business model.

How can they be so far behind, no wonder why VW was able to buy this company....2019? 4 doors? I doubt it will look anything like the 'artist's conception'....probably just another expensive ugly car....With Mustang sales starting in Europe this year, I think we'll see a paradigm shift...

Actually, the lack of innovation had nothing to do with VW's takeover of Porsche. That blame belongs to Wendelin Wiedeking when he was CEO of Porsche.

Wendelin Wiedeking attempted what amounted to a hostile buyout of VW, but his plan utterly backfired and put the company in peril. Ironically, VW came to the rescue and bailed out Porsche.

Had Wiedeking not pursued VW Porsche probably would still be an independent company.

Very true! But remember that VW has a lot more $$, so maybe it's not such a bad thing.

And that Macan is one heck of a better Q5, isn't it?

Porsche already owned nearly 50% of VW before the hostile takeover by VW.

I remember about 5 years ago or so, VW stock was in a short squeeze. Porsche ate up most of the available shares and the stock ran to around 1,000 Euros and it was the most valuable publicly traded company in Europe. They also had call options that were worth a lot. The VW stock helped Porsche to record profits that year, but the next year when VW shares went back down, Porsche had record losses.

I think this was the reason Porsche went from acquirer to acquiree.

I just checked and it this happened in 2008 (Porsche tried to take over VW), then it backfired and VW took over Porsche.

And VW stock did get over 1,000 Euros.

are they that far behind or is Tesla that far ahead??

Neither. They just play in totally different markets. See my post below (#7) for a better understanding.

I would venture a guess that Porche had a come to Jesus moment when they saw the Tesla P85D's 0-60 and quarter mile times given the fact that the Panamera cost twice as much.

Probably not.

Porsche has a long history of doing exotic development of very low production cars like the old 959 and the new 918.

The 959 was an experimental vehicle, sold at high cost and low volumes. The technology developed with the 959 subsequently filtered into the all-wheel-drive 964 a few years later and then the twin turbo 993 after that.

The 918 is another version of the 959, but using electrical motors as a means to augment the combustion engine. That technology will be spun off into various models, and the BEV version cited by the article is just a likely concept car.

Another way to look at it:

Does Tesla threaten Porsche's sales? No.

Tesla is playing in a very tiny niche market that does not threaten Porsche's market in the least. Just look at the lineup of cars.

What drives Porsche into the BEV and hybrid market is not competition, but CAFE standards and other fleet fuel standards imposed by government regulation. By producing a fraction of Porsche's lineup using electrical motors they offset the lower fuel economy cars such as the 991, Boxster, Cayman, and the two SUVs that are Porsche's bread and butter.

However, shallow articles like the one cited by Fredski (who is not a shallow person) see surface similarities between two manufactures and jump to the conclusion that they are in hot competition with each other. They are not. It is called coincidence.

Incidentally, the engineering arm of Porsche is the Wiessach R&D development center, owned by Porsche (Porsche's Skunkworks, if you will). They do far more than simply turn designs for Porsche, the are a design-for-hire facility and have a wide range of world class expertise all under one roof.

Harly Davidson used Wiessach to design and test their V-Rod engine as do other manufactures in the automotive industry.

So, for anyone to say that Porsche (or any other manufacture) is behind the technological times is really a bit myopic because there are many other deeper factors that determine the marketing direction they take.

I think Tesla has taken a serious bite out of the market of cars in the $100K range and manufactures have taken notice, their first car, a roadster was dismissed by many, since the "S" has come out and now improved with dual motors and its 85 KW battery that gives it a real world 250 mile range between charges Tesla is a legitimate threat. Tesla will release its first real mass market car, the X about the same time they get their gigafactory online and their total annual car production can jump into the 100K+ units a year. Musk is an amazing guy who is changing every market he ventures into. the guy is has changed the idea of an electric vehicle from a novelty to a mainstream reality. thats HUGE. European countries have demanded cars sold there have zero or close to that when putting through their towns and cities. Ev's are a natural fit.

the 918 is just an awesome piece of engineering, the concept car is laughable

so are these 2 direct competitors? not really. I can envision Tesla being the King of electric cars though. as long as ICE is sold Porsche has market share and a storied valuation that many could only dream of.

I doubt it. Tesla has sold maybe 2,000 model S cars.

Porsche, which is just one small company of many larger manufactures selling expensive performance cars, outsells Tesla probably 50 to 1.

That isn't even a nibble. However, I would like to see your evidence that says otherwise.

you're a bit lighthttp://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-on-track-to-sell-50000th-model-s-this-month/

Thanks. Not insignificant numbers, so I would agree that they have a market share.

Well, there is another fly in the ointment for Tesla. The Tesla S was sent to Nürburgring for a spin. It lasted 3 minutes before the car had to shut partially down due to heat.

The end result was a 10 minute time around the track, where as cars like the Porsche 918 were 6 minutes and 57 seconds. The Panamera Turbo, which is probably a better match for the Tesla, turned 7:56.

The test driver of the Tesla liked the car and said that if the power override could be resolved the car should be able to turn 9 minutes on that track.

If a few street light to streetlight dashes are all you are doing, the Tesla will amaze. But when the rubber meets the track there is going to be a lot of R&D needed to close the gap.

For any who are interested here is the actual article from those who drove the car at Nurburgring.
http://jalopnik.com/heres-what-a-tesla-model-s-can-do-around-the-nurburgrin-1600644908

This sentence may also have something to do with Porsche being concerned.
"However, before it did it was able to keep a GT3 RS going full chat, within shouting distance (at the 2:00 mark) far longer than any 4,700lb sedan has a right to."
Add that to your $200,000 bragging rights cars getting stomped in both performance and technology by an electric car at half the price.
Also bearing mind the last time a Porsche won Motortrends car of the year.

Some are taking this electric car thing very seriously.
http://www.fiaformulae.com/
Imagine the technological developments racing has brought us already, just amped up for electric cars. (pardon the pun)

You have no idea who was driving the GT3 and what skill level they had, so I would not give the author's comment much salt.

I stand by my comment that electric vehicles are not going to be competitive, yet, in the high performance arena other than short sprints or specialized racing events where the playing field is specifically tailored for the vehicles.

Incidentally, I applaud the Formula E endeavor as it will help push the technology forward, but we are probably one or more decades away from seeing parity on the track as both technologies keep evolving.

You are absolutely right, I have no idea who was driving the RS. But Given the specs and the fact that the RS is not yet released, I'm going with a Factory test driver. I would imagine no one pays for track time at Nurburgring and drives less than flat out in a prototype super car.
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/23/porsche-911-gt3-rs-500hp-spec-sheet-leaked/
Also, something else I am sure Porsche and most every other automaker is considering.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/02/consumer-reports-names-its-2015-top-picks/index.htm

I couldn't find where it said the GT3 RS was a prototype factory car with a factory driver. I know they started making them since 2003.