Can a Combination of Renewable's Make an On Demand Power Plant

Is it possible? Yes.

Is it probable? No!

In the past most communities, townships, and cities did indeed have stand-alone small power, water, and gas utility companies.

The idea was abandoned when the large consortiums of utility companies were granted proprietary rights to large areas by the federal government for distributing electrical power, water, propane, natural gas, and butane. (franchise)

The premise was that the cost to the end-user would be kept low by the implementation of government price controls and the adoption of anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws.

All of the stop-gap measures designed to limit the profit margin of large utilities as well as most of the anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws were removed in the 1980's - 1990's allowing unrestricted merging and partnering across state lines.

Recently a small town in Northern Arizona attempted to get permission to install a Natural Gas system to the citizens homes and businesses in order to combat the outrageously high cost of propane during winter months.

The large propane company that holds ownership for all propane distribution in that area filed a legal petition and was successful in blocking the pipeline installation and distribution of NG.

While an individual may have the right on their own property to have a stand-alone energy system, I see no way the powerful large utility companies will allow any direct competition for their customer base by a co-op or other community business.

In order for us to return to actual "free" competition in the energy market there are a large amount of regulations and laws which favor large utility companies that will have to be repealed and/or changed.

On the surface a community owned power generation facility appears to be cost effective however when the actual cost of maintenance and a required redundant backup source is factored in, the advantages shrink dramatically and often is not cost effective at all.

The form thread can a combinations of naturals re power closed steam plants? Yes

Is it probable ? YES already used in other countries in small village's as a covered center powering a 12 volt charging station in three types of structures UP draft vortex solar thermal heat engine.

Not a stand alone system a combination.

Here in the USA any community CO-OP can build it's own power systems from a natural urban research & development of a green renewable energy systems signed into law over 12 years ago.

From your reply: "Is it probable ? YES already used in other countries in small village's..." (In a few places but there is not widespread use in all other countries and only in a very limited market.)

You are correct in that an existing CO-OP can build it's energy systems using whatever viable, safe, and approved methods available.

However;

The fact is unchanged that the current laws and regulations prohibit any and all end users from attaching their system to the grid without permission from the energy provider controlling the distribution area.

If the energy provider controlling the area is not willing to allow connection to their distribution system, the new system must remain a stand-alone system.

If the new system is allowed to be connected to the existing area distribution grid, a fee is or fees are accessed for using the distribution equipment and for associated high maintenance costs which in most cases defeat any realized cost savings by the end user.

The NERC is very adamant in enforcing compliance regulations in this arena and the permitting process is overwhelming and costly.

I wholeheartedly agree that the ideas you are proposing are viable and could result in improving the current energy system but we are a long way from realizing any real progress until there are changes made to the existing laws and regulations.

As far as supplementing the generation process of an existing coal-fired or other fossil fuel facility using green technology to "re-power" closed steam plants is concerned; the installation & implementation costs are currently prohibitive.

Currently in Arizona all of our existing electrical utility companies are shutting down multiple generation units in their generation and distribution systems due to the high cost of refurbishing and/or converting their facilities.

Either way, the cost will be passed on to all end users and especially to individual home owners and renters.

Hello again.

Before we get started with the discussion, what ever happened to your previous developments you were working on such as http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/82036 and renewablethermalwindpower.com

I thought we had some other energy production for community discussions we talked about in depth but cannot for the life of me find them at the moment. Is this a rehash of the same thing or have you made some more insights or development you wanted to share or more data on your developments you wanted to post?

Apparently you didn't understand the question? Can a combination of naturals re power a closed steam plant? This is not anything to do with previous discussions. I ask for input about the known possibilities of a combination of naturals solar, wind, & structure designs NOT natural GAS or biofuels such as any thing that burns.

Ok, as long as this is, as you say, just a discussion on the subject and not you pushing your website which is what you have done in all your previous discussions you have posted here on CR4 (hence scepticism from others and you long "please be nice" post at the beginning).

Ok? So you said and we agree, nothing to do with the content on your website, so lets agree to stick to the topic.

Good, now that that's out of the way what was previously being burned to create the steam, was it coal and your looking at the possibility of other feed-stocks such as renewable forestry wood, or corn husks or something else? Again it comes down to cost. Alternative fuels are going to be more expensive and fuel processing costs and increased maintenance and setup costs add to that.

You also mention the addition of other renewable power sources, all of which are possible if you want a steam plant to provide the base load. The problem almost always is cost. Cost of new plant, cost of replacement solar panels and inverters, etc.

So yes, you can (and there are plenty of sites of varying size around the world that work off the grid using numerous alternative energy source combinations) and it will work but it is going to be expensive. It will NEVER be cheaper in the short or long term to run alternative energy sources compared to existing grid coal, gas, hydro, nuclear or even geothermal. See numerous previous threads on CR4 for more info.

My advice is just use natural gas - cleaner than coal and really abundant and inexpensive. The best alternative if you want to protect the planet economically.

Renewable's " Meaning nothing that burns"!

Sure they can.

You can take the (electric) power generated by the "naturals" and use it to drive electric motors that can, in turn, drive the turbines to generate more (electric) power.

It won't be very efficient. In fact it will not even be considered by a sane person as a viable option.

In reply to #6. I believe Mark Twain put it very well when he said, "Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".

You present no rational argument for anything other than therapy.

You say here, "If you respond to this with a open mind & without childish remarks it will be kind to those of lesser minded people to engage in a good discions" and "BEING CHILDISH IS NOT GOING TO BE THOUGHT OF YOU BEING A SMART PERSON".

I think you're being just a little hypocritical here.
I quote" It's like being back in elementary school with a room full of I- Idiots."

Yes, this is a direct quote of you from I Thought This Was Obvious!.

Then, there's the self serving links to your "alloneword" web site that also makes you easy to remember. I suppose that we'll get around to that soon enough as you make your pitch.

Show us your working model....or show us your behind....

Now now, kennynabb6 mentioned above and I agreed this was not about his website.

Lets see if we can stay on topic without mentioning the content on the website that the previous threads have been about but hopefully this one isn't.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt initially and taking it as not being a true closed loop system and that the fuel being burned to create the steam is a variable being discussed. For the sake of starting a potentially useful CR4 dialog.

Post #4 is not really helping as it references the website again. Hopefully that isn't a sign of things to come (like the previous threads).

I think I will leave that paper bag of optimism on my head a little longer.

Nothing is used that burns. Renewable's only.

WoW! Please I see you can pick apart what is wrong instead of what has been ask. For your info. The spelling was from the person that I reply-ed to . so jump on them and check yourself. I didn't claim to be a grammar teacher. Appreantly spell checker didn't catch it either.

Thread question is still open to you if you can hold down you childiash remarks.

It is possible that the spell checker device (look for an IC that is wearing glasses) has gone into avalanche destructive mode.

I don't know if it is possible, but I know that some people have apparently tried, or at least they said they tried. In Venice, Italy, I heard there was an effort to create a closed loop power plant fueled by algae. The CO2 from the plant is sent directly into a many vats exposed to the sun, where algae grow using the CO2. The algae can grow extremely fast with sufficient nutrients and sun, and could double in 24 hours.

This plant was supposed to be exceptionally efficient because it did not have to dry out the algae. The algae was harvested and then combusted directly without drying it out, in a special kind of combustion chamber.

In order to make sure they grew enough algae to keep the plant running, they would have to have a lot of covered vats or ponds. One nice feature is that if the sun didn't shine they could switch very quickly to fossil fuels, but if they have enough ponds they can keep a reserve of fuel to stay ahead of demand, and even keep running through the night.

I heard about this years ago. When I tried to find out how it was developing and when it would go online I could not find any information about it. I did find that they are also (instead?) harvesting algae from the Sargasso Sea, Japan, and the Venice canals.

Hey man! Kenny already said "renewables only, nothing burns", or something to that effect. So unless you have figured out how to electrochemically get the energy out of that algae, it is dead in the starting gate.

As to the question of burning wet algae: Would an upstream air separation plant providing oxygen to the furnace work OK? Could the algae be burned inside a pipe with oxygen so that all the combustion gases and vaporized water (steam) be provided to a steam turbine directly? I would not want to see what happens to the metals in the condensers, but if that corrosion could be avoided, you would at least be rid of the boiler, have some cleaned up water (or not?), some severely fouled turbine blades from the silica, and salts in the algae, and some pipeline ready CO2. Hope there is a Coca-Cola bottling plant nearby.

Even if the algae was washed to remove the saltiness of the growth medium, there are still the minerals (ash content) of the algae itself. Too bad. I guess it could be tried on a disc turbine (if that didn't fail from metal creep), with a periodic 2-phase wash down with really wet steam.

Oh, dear. No need to shout around here. We're not completely deaf yet. And the prudent use of a dictionary would do wonders for your message.

By the way, questions that deal exclusively with technical issues and leave the politics to another forum will be received far more warmly.

Cheers !

Hybrid power system with combined wind,solar,biomass,waste and quick start diesel or gas turbine is better. If located near sea wave,tidal power too could be harnessed.

Really! What power grids, You ever see long power lines going across the landscape while driving? What are they called if not power grid?

What does that have to do with the thread question anyway.

Excess power into the grid, make your meter run bacward an as the billing system is programmed to charge at a certain rate the billing system will calculate your bill as negative and payment will first be as a credit and if the credit increase they will pay you by cheque the same as you pay them as I understand it.

Correction to this QUESTION.

It seems that many readers can't get past old steam engine technology or if they can't understand what is ask, They will chose to pick apart my grammar or spelling, but yet understand what is said & make corrections to me in a childish manner.

It is why many don't stay long enough to have a good discussion on the subject.

This question thread does not have anything that burns in it renewable combinations that have been proven & is meant to inspire thought WHAT IF. OLD TECHNOLOGY.

CHILDISH REMARKS FROM LOWER EDUCATED PEOPLE WILL NOT BE REPLYED TO?

"CHILDISH REMARKS FROM LOWER EDUCATED PEOPLE WILL NOT BE REPLYED TO" You've just assured the demise of this thread, since no one will reply to you.

<unsubscribed>

What a waste of time. A bunch of mindless dribble.

Massey! What a waste of time, is only a bunch of dribble to a closed mind to try to make sense to a person Not wanting to learn anything new, or don't have enough sense to understand a different approach to old methods.

I'm having some difficulty understanding your question, so I'll try to restate them as I think you might have intended. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've put your original post in italics.

With the ageing power plants that are steam power "how can they be re-powered from a combinations of renewable in 1 structure to make a on demand power plant that is not steam engine base, OLD TECH?

Are you asking... How can current (old technology) steam generator plants be upgraded to use some type of renewable energy?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We all are aware of the climate change & big money that has past the buck on to the tax payers for clean up. Now some claim that the environmental change does not exist & some swore it does " this is not the bigger question" the question is who pays for it to get done & how can we as a community take action.

The consumer will always be the one that pays. Communities take actions by voting.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We also know that long power lines are over burdened to the point of burning up.

We do? Where's the proof of power lines burning up?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can we as a community base build small power systems that fit the community's across the country, "OWNED by the community it serves"?

I say YES but only if we have a open mind & use what we have learned with common sense. This is of course COMON SENCE is used openly.

I don't believe that current laws and regulations will allow for that. You could do some research in that area, and let us know.

Tom! I will restate the difficult understanding, Steam is NOT the work force, kinetic to mechanical fluid to drive power to the accumulator's & other pumps from thermal up drafts from recycled waste heat are the principle work force is, NOT ELECTRIC MOTORS driving the pumps.

Now If you are in the power industry & consulting with a open mind , GET past old steam engine technologies for the sake of our old power infurstructure & high bills, Not saying anything about the environmental problems form them. I shamfuly pray you open you mind.

Ever hear of HYDROSTACKIC POWER? hydraulic turbo OR AUTOMATIC TRANSTION? what is a toque converter. Replace all steam related power with hydraulic power.

MR know it all??

This is my final post fell proud of you self's & I pray for you to open your mind's eye.

Like it's said the only way to in-prove one's self is from wisdom to see what no one else can see with wisdom to change what we can & leave the rest to GOD!

I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to respond because I think you are just trolling but here goes anyway.

I have two questions for you

1. Since when does renewables mean "nothing that burns"

2. How can you call yourself a "Renewable energy Researcher/Inventor" when you obviously know nothing about renewable energy, performing research, or inventing?

Wow Troy, brutal but honest opinion, how do you really feel?

Kenny: Take a deep breath, and get over this idea about "nothing burns", or your silly notion that steam is OLD-TECH.

Steam will remain a part of mankind's harnessing of energy as long as there is mankind. We are on the water planet, and when you heat up water you get steam, and it is far less hazardous than a lot of other chemicals that could be used in a thermodynamic cycle.

The thing you are proposing as NEW-TECH is really nothing more than a roped tornado, and Pecos Bill did that over 50 years ago.

Tror36 Trolling?? I do believe this was my thread?!

1.st question= there are many renewables that don't burn any thing, research it some before you make childish remarks.

2.Obviously you are NOT a researcher?

Come on elementary schooling is all that are required common sense also helps.

Do I need to be more clear??

Kenny: Is the link below what you are really talking about? Even that relies on a solid thermodynamic basis.

http://vortexengine.ca/Publications/STH_Draft.pdf

Michaud thermal vortex might be a way to add power to an existing power plant where there is waste heat from condensing the "evil" steam back to liquid. Even concentrated solar thermal plants use steam to power the prime mover - a multi-pressure steam turbine running on high pressure superheated steam with re-heat with stages for high pressure, medium pressure, and low pressure steam on one shaft, all turning the generator. This is not so OLD-TECH, but it is efficient.

Lesson #1 about the power-grid: The power grid is a vast interconnection of electric power transmission over a controlled region to that all power placed on the grid meets the specification of voltage and phase for all three phases, or meets the DC voltage requirements of that grid. The plants within the region have to have permits allowing them to put their production up for sale on that grid. If you happen to search the power grids in the U.S.A., you will find a number of them, and they do not necessarily have interconnects with each other. As the technology makes progress, and agreements are reached between these authorities (vested by the governing utility commissions in their state(s) of operation), more interconnects will be made to allow passage of electric power where the demand is greatest at the moment.

Lesson #2 about off-grid generation: If you community is represented by 2-10 households (arbitrarily 2-10) in a remote area, and you all agree to stop buying power off the grid, then yes, you can do whatever you want to as long as nothing powered by your system is hard-wired to anything outside your community. Heck if you wanted to, you could all agree to call sunset sunrise by definition, and make your clocks run backwards, and no one will care.

Ok, before this gets out of hand, answering the big question

"Nothing that burns, other Renewable's!"

and

"Renewable's " Meaning nothing that burns"!"

Then no. To create solar panels, solar inverters, wind turbines, steel for turbine towers and inverter cases, glass and plastics for solar panels, AC generators, etc, etc you need power and resources out of the ground and the power to get and make these comes from the grid from predomoninantly non-renewable sources.

Solar and wind power source systems produce less energy over their life cycle than it takes to produce them hence they are a net sink. All "renewable" systems do is move the pollution to other places while requiring MORE coal and gas to be burned to produce them. I work in the power industry by the way.

Don't despair though, the Scientific and Engineering community are hard at work working on developing true renewable sources, but they ere not there yet. Perhaps a few more decades of development and a few more breakthroughs in material science. Keep a watch on Graphene, that is going to be a big huge leap forward for "true" renewables and energy storage!

It used to be true that the solar power industry was a net sink of energy, but it apparently became a net source around 2010:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es3038824

I couldn't access the pay-for-view paper unfortunately.

In the summary it correctly mentions the balance of system components when calculating the overall system "costs" but does it mention energy storage in the total system (important as the discussion here is around off-grid systems) or government incentives offsetting the payback period (which has in my opinion has always been the worst offender skewing the payback period)?

What I got (only from the abstract) was that there is a >50% chance that there is a positive energy balance over the life of a PV system after 2012, but that continuing improvements in cell efficiency, scale up of manufacturing (slight economy of energy available there), and improved energy storage, waste heat utilization all help to offset the energy cost versus energy output.

My personal belief is that the Perovskite mineral analogue thin-film cells will outstrip the silicon based ones, and these materials are less expensive to make (unless they are limited in cost reduction by the requirement of organic polymer hole centers).

Agreed. Development continues in a number of promising areas but silicon is a dead end, it's to resource intensive to mine and process and at the limits of its efficiency.

Companies are still pushing it though, but at least it makes special off-grid power applications easier where convenience and initial cost are more important than life cost and weight.

According to Wikipedia, it does include batteries, battery chargers, land, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_system

There is a financial payback period and an energy payback period. As I understand it, the energy payback time for just the silicon solar panels is about 4 years, and declining. Here is snippet from a web site on the subject:

"Energy payback estimates for rooftop PV systems are 4, 3, 2, and 1 years: 4 years for systems using current multicrystalline-silicon PV modules, 3 years for current thin-film modules, 2 years for anticipated multicrystalline modules, and 1 year for anticipated thin-film modules (see Figure 1). With energy paybacks of 1 to 4 years and assumed life expectancies of 30 years, 87% to 97% of the energy that PV systems generate won't be plagued by pollution, greenhouse gases, and depletion of resources. "

"Based on models and real data, the idea that PV cannot pay back its energy investment is simply a myth. Indeed, researchers Dones and Frischknecht found that PV-systems fabrication and fossil fuel energy production have similar energy payback periods (including costs for mining, transportation, refining, and construction)."

Energhttp://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35489.pdf

This new analysis includes the whole industry, not just manufacturing of the panels.

Good to know as some of my solar information is a few years out of date (although I am still very dubious regarding calculated yearly generation figures and payback periods on complete silicon solar panel systems where no government incentives are involved).

Thanks for the interesting link but it seems to only concentrate on the PV panels. Mentions of balance of plant are completely glossed over in it and the figures look waaay too small to cover the energy necessary to create solar inverters and batteries. Perhaps because the document is out of a government renewables department who's job is to promote renewables and hence are hardly impartial.

Yes I work in marketing as well, I see the tell tale signs of a slightly biased marketing FAQ.

WoW????

You have to be kidding about you being in the power industry, It's closed small minded people like you that are to blame for the failing deficiency of our ageing power systems stuck on steam engine technologies & high energy bills. The only improvements made to this is the ineffective down draft cooling towers & replaced the push & pull steam piston with a steam turbine, Still steam engine tech.

There are known energy storage systems that don't relay on batteries, maybe you don't know what a hydraulic accumulators is?

How about solar heat engine updraft, by they way UP- Draft are more effeict than down draft.

I have been called a fool some time for thinking naturals can save our planet's environment with NONE BURNING energy technology, But at least I have common senses to try rather than just doing nothing but complaining about it & waiting for others to take action.

By the way it is shamefully to say I will pray for you to open your mind to the possibility of change.

I will no longer bother to reply to closed minded people stuck in the middle age in elem-arty school, Just encase why I stated time warp backwards in time.

I have seen recently, discussion of large improvements in PV efficiency by introduction of multi-layered PV wherein each layer utilizes a different portion of the incident light spectrum. Also, it appears that using CSP PV (focused) results in lower cost of the active material, and that offsets the mirror and mount cost. Advances in cooling of the PV module has made this possible, and there is also some hope for utilization of the waste heat as combined heat and power, or conversion of the low grade heat using other means (that I am under obligation not to go into at this point).

I still have not forgotten or forgiven the petty name calling you have resorted to in this thread, and you really have lost mine, as far as I can tell, everyone else's respect here.

By the way, I made no link to any film or layers of glass, PV or otherwise. You seem to have some sort of mental construct that exists only in your mind, but appears to not be on paper, or existing physically anywhere.

http://www.renewablethermalwindpower.com/

the link you provided, as the one all of us have seen before, and really is bereft of anything concrete in terms of design actuals, power output values either real or projected, and is full of misspelled words. At least have the dignity to use a dictionary or a good spell check subroutine to fix your obvious blunders.

Reported as SPAM!

Well I guess spam & eggs go together or did you have beans?

The ed site is where all the information on a collection of renewable listed together for instead looking it up separately to save time.

You can find the info all over the internet not just my site, Oh I guess you can call the Google site spam also.

Sad got books for public ed that gives this information also. if you can go to a libuary.

Thats right books are spam to .

WoW!?? I must be in a time warp back to the middle ages at a elementary school, Kids are out playing???????

This means all but two readers.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say but I would advise you to tread carefully as I seem to be one of the few people left on CR4 that hasn't dismissed you as not worth answering.

Rather than responding with broad generalisations, short sentence answers or what appear to be insults could you please perhaps post in some more detail to make things clearer.

What is it you are trying to achieve with this thread?

This thread was to have a open mind discussion on clean green combinations that can re-power a closed steam plant, NOT Using steam as the main work force.

Like a solar heat engine up draft system, just to name 1.

Induced thermal updrafts is another.

Recycled waste heat is another, from waste heat from the hydraulic is another, recycled waste heat from the freezer systems, Meaning" used to induce the thermal up-Drafts.

I had ask in the thread to be open minded & that childish remarks would not be responded to.

There are better NONE burning approaches to this that store energy, NOT Using battery's as a storage system. NOT using electric power to the pumps Hydraulic accumulator is just 1 form, Compressed air is another. Kinetic energy to mechainical fluid is the work force that drive the systems

Structure design is just a cantainment chamber that foces all the UP-DRAFT winds that are proudced from below," ground leveal.

I am supperised that at this leveal of people on this CR4 site need to be explained elamentry leveal of knowledge. Meaning that some one has to start at basic leveals of knowledge here to understand whats said, "exsample" grammer & missed spelled words, even to the point they understand it enough to suggest spilling & grammer, But not understand what the thread question is.

The ref sites put up by others is ok , But when I do it it's spam, All public ed ref sites are permitted.

The whole piont of this was to ingage open minds to the facts of other ways to approuches to energy developments other than steam base or any thing that puts Carbon dexiode into the air.

I have viewed your website and read the content the last time you posted the link on CR4 here. I was not impressed.

Have you tried PESWiki.com you will probably get more of a positive response.

Well Jack of all trades it seems to me that the make up of CR4 readers & contributers surly are made-up is over more that 5-8 people, so hardly when you say you are 1 of the few. I also have some open minded readers that also seem to be interested in open mind discussions after all the childish closed minded people stop worrying about my grammar & missed spelled words, They can still understand whats said here.

Now can the real thought past steam power be opened up for thought?

Taking humor into it.

Caution, small minds may sewl when mind is open, May be brain swelling, be ready for intense thought, May be harmfull.

I understand that with the new "prism" and Magnifying collectors where they focus sun light from collectors on a specific single receptor to create steam could come on line but that the big power companies do not plan to entertain it. I was thinking that collectors like that can be focused on a satelite from one country and beamed down to a country where it is night time to get continuity for 24 hour Sun exposure. There is always sun somewhere in the world.

Humor again is good. The theory of Tesla's earth's grounding sending power throw the atmosphere combined with NASA's space tech. focused on satellites is humours but dangerous to anything that passes through to light, instant destruction. You also are wrong the sun always shines in space fixed, only satellites are moving with the earth.

I never said a word about sending power by satellite but sending light. The sentence where you call me wrong is your interpretation of what i said and not on what I know or do not know. It is actually the fact that satellites are fixed in orbit that make what I suggest possible. Collect sun on surface in America, beam it to a fixed satellite above America, relay to fixed satellite above Africa and down to a receiver on the surface of Africa. This will be my last post on your Question, you do not need to answer me, do not ask what you have the answers for!

I knew it. You claimed this was a discussion thread you opened but it clearly isn't. All you are interested in is promoting your website, that is the real purpose of this and in my opinion all your previous posts on CR4. Anything else we post on the discussion, on the topic YOU started that doesn't help the claims of your website regardless of how on topic it is you shoot down.

I'm done trying to help you and would recommend that anyone even remotely interested in this CR4 discussion has a look at kennyabb6's website and makes their own conclusions before continuing to waste their time.

That is what you want isn't it, for people to look at your website and the technology on it? Are you going to answer honestly or are you going to resort to insulting me and my profession instead. Come on, be the bigger man and answer without resorting to insults.

Well. Jeff Foxwearthy say Do you know the defferance of a redneck & a stupid redneck.

1. the redneck knows how to open a book & read whats inside the book.

2. A stupid redneck just looks at the cover & wounders whats inside it.

The public ed site is for understanding what makes up a system. Apperantly all here is interested in is Why is the site mine??

NO where is it stated that the work force is steam.

Wounder why I put down steam engine, OLD TECH. where is the sign!!

You are just all over the place, and as far as I am now concerned, based on the available information you started this discussion on CR4 under false pretences to promote the content on your website as you have done in the past. Perhaps you should follow your own advice you yelled at us at the start

THINK ABOUT BEING CHILDISH IS NOT GOING TO BE THOUGHT OF YOU BEING A SMART PERSON, IT ONLY SHOWS HOW OUT OF TOUCH A PERSON IS IN THEIR FEILD OF PROFFSION.

I and others tried to discuss renewables with you and gave you enough chances to explain yourself when all you seemed to want to do is talk us down and push your own agenda and I am just not interested anymore.

CR4 is a discussion site, if you want to push something without any open discussion from people go and post on PESWiki, that's the place for what you are trying to push.

After careful consideration I (sadly) too have also reported you as SPAM under CR4 rule 9. Your posts on CR4 are purely driven to advertise your website and you haven't really made an effort to offer any discussion on CR4 except to setup your website.

Note that this is a completely different issue to your language, spelling, website etiquette and your website content which I have not mentioned or raised a complaint about. CR4 Rule 9 - No advertising of any kind allowed in the forum.

If you want to advertise, CR4 is not the place for you, try PESWiki. Seriously, i'm trying to help you here.

Jack

You say that you have read the website posted on CR4 before ok then what is the kinetic energy capturing device called & where is it mounted in the structure & why there?

What is the cooling system in the structure for & where is the thermal transfers cooling mounted & why in that location?

The web Google search has your answers of all the information needed to public all over the internet. Not just my ed site can you find this information. The ed site is where all this information is listed in order & why in that type structure.

What is a tornado vortex.? Where is the solar heat engine located & why there.

Is steam the driving force in this system.

Ok without pushing spam ed.

Structure design & containment chamber = same meaning here.

Kinetic energy capturing device 2 parts. 1 structure=user icon 2 .GE90fans= main work force, Starter.

Energy storage device 2 parts. 1 accumulators 2 compressed air.

natural updrafts are the main work forces= tall structure updrafts+ natural wind + solar heat engine up draft system + recycled heat, " from hydraulics + cooling system

Now any thing else, This is just elementary explaination of the system known as RENEWABLE(THERMAL)=WIND POWER the energy power resource. NOT PUSHING SPAM ED.

Next phase of elementary explanation.

We all know what happens to air molecules when heated= expand + move faster.

Cold air molecules shrunk = moves slower.

Why does air flow move more rapid over water = reflective heat from water & sun.

In most auto & heavy construction equipment which have a automatic transmission have a cooling device= cooling radiator= thermal transfer device.

Next phase elementary explanation

What is a Ionic air filter, What does it do?

What happens while it's in operation action & reaction?

How can this be used with other systems in a controlled area?

Remembering I seem to have grammar & spelling problems, so be nice adult open mind discussions.

I believe it's too late for that now, and even if it wasn't would you allow impartial discussion and take creative criticism based on your past responses. I now don't believe so.

This whole thread has been a large waste of peoples time including mine and now we are back to talking about your website content and back to post #2 with me it appears as the last one left answering. And considering I am still here trying to help you after your comments against me in post #46...........

Have you tried posting on PSEWiki or another website? Somewhere where you haven't insulted and alienated the existing user base as you have done here, including now me.

I'll leave you with this thought, by Samuel L. Clemens.

Never argue with a fool. Bystanders may not be able to tell the difference.

I wasn't planning on arguing as that rarely helps anyone in cases such as these. I do have a tendency to not know when to stop flogging a dead horse (so to speak) however.

Cannot say I didn't try to help though.

There is no help for Kenny if he does not allow us to point out the obvious grammar and spelling problems. He might have genuine interest in the matter but his behavior overshadows the discussion. I am out here.

Yes I have been made aware of the facts of my bad grammar & spelling.

When I read that you had reported spam & I thought you meant HAM. Thats why I ask did you have eggs or beans, My bad.

No one here is arguing in this form ( at least on my part ) simple questions have been ask," you said you looked at the public ed site! therefor you would know the name of the kinetic energy capturing device is & where it is at in the structure" Just saying.

Now as far as Item 9 rules on spam, I am NOT a company nor am I profiting from posting public ed information Ad's, I am Not a NONE for profite org. I am doing this public ed posting from MY DISABILITY income, NONE TAXIBILE so I can't write it off , because it's free to the public as giving back to my country. Can you say that, Giving back free information or do you get paid?

Now the childish acting is not helping others that really care?

I think it's a graphical representation of "8 Natrual & 6 man made

Thermal transfure systems"

The above is an uncorrected quote from the website.

Google says:

"Your search - transfure sustems - did not match any documents."

I will remain forever unenlightened. Such is my plight.

Surely you are aware that many things in research isn't published for many reasons, LIKE PRIVETLY OWNED PROPERTY NOT DISCLOSED. as to keep control of the technologies from BIG MONEY & molopies. The research that is disclosed is from shared tech. The HOW-TO get it done is MY LIFES WORK putting the rest of the tech into 1 structure. Now it seems that you didn't read it, if you did you would know that it's printed there, also the tech has been researched from a indenpent Harry Valiatine Energy central news dated over 12 years ago, That also is stated in the text information.

Wait, were you the one who mentioned they were on disability and medication due to mental problems, I thought you may be but couldn't find the post where it was mentioned in my CR4 history and so steered well clear of that one?

Your still trying to promote your website here on CR4, that's the problem here I am concentrating on, not your bad spelling or your questionable website content which others have mentioned. Especially the misleading way you have done it here on this thread. See previous posts of mine above.

What about answering my post #2?

In addition didn't I already offer you helpful (and free) suggestions to make your website more professional, if so you haven't followed any of them (again cannot find those old posts I made, but thought it was to you). Perhaps it was but I deleted it before sending.

I'll make one very serious suggestion, with no malice or ill will.

If you ever want anybody to take you seriously, I strongly suggest that you get someone to edit your web site. It is full of errors in grammar and spelling.

I've been an engineer in various technical fields for 40 years.

I've had lots of people pitch products, ideas, services and themselves to me in that time.

I'd never do business with someone who was represented by a web site such as yours.

You may well be a genius, but your web site will put most people off in an instant.

You don't get a second chance at a first impression.

OK Lyn, If you have read it, then you already know that I had ask anyone whom cares to help because I am a disabled vet, & NEED ALL to help.

It apparently appears that you didn't read it or you scan read it missing it" THAT IS CLEAR" not only from you but others.

Now after colsed minded attacks on many people here on CR4 over the last 12 years it appears the same people are doing it & and wounder why many don't return. The bulling you give out when returned they get pissie.

Now if your comments are pure then do what needs to be corrected, Remembering the differant type lettering is not mine but others.

OK people it has been pointed out that many here still are small closed minded childish people that still can't do research on the internet. It appears that many are looking for the wrong thing here.

The #3 last 12 pages are what is well documented research done in the past 200 years.

To be told I am the one on MENTAL DRUGS. maybe you should get some to help your minds open to the facts in science already aywhere on the public web.

BEING MENTAL & disabled doesn't mean I can't out think childern, thats clear here.

When you all open your minds & quite playing can we all have a better world.

Here's a serious question - Are your meds preventing you from fixing the problems with your website we have helpfully suggested here and previously on CR4 time and time again?

Are you really serious about this, if so why don't you update your website which is the whole foundation of your discussions here on CR4, and whatever other groups you are promoting to. Surely your not just promoting to CR4, others must have looked at the website and made the same comments and dismissed you out of hand because of the poor website.

Your not some scam artist pretending to be someone else are you (Rajesh from Bangalore?)? Your actions are rather suspicious, hence the attitude and lack of involvement of many members here on CR4.

Small steps.

OK !??? JACK !?!?!?!?

All of terms you want to use to ME on med 's. Still doesn't answer a simple Question?

Instead of complaining about things, why not help correct some issue's that you see & reply to the Question? You say you looked over the information right!? so what is the name of the kinetic energy capturing device?

WE all are aware of my bad grammar & spelling so grow up & help instead of making fun of a disabled person, Very shameful!?

The others that always complaine about high energy bills & the environment just to do nothing will get the same. By the way I didn't say I was on any MENTAL DRUGS, this only shows who is not very smart. It is also shows how little informed people in the power industry are about other less costly approuch to steam engine tech no matter how you look at it.

When next time you discreace yourself in a public discussion borad I will report you & others in your group of less knowledge base of complainers.

See my post #7. I never wanted to discuss your website and still don't, only the topic mentioned in the original title of this thread, which I have done. Those of us that mentioned your website or did stick to the titled topic got shot down (so to speak) by you as being off topic, and then the topic changed to your website which appears like your previous posts to be your goal.

I'm not going to discuss your website and you probably have stuffed your chances here and in future on CR4 because of the way you have acted. A number of us have tried but that doesn't seem to have helped. Your posts don't disappear so posting here in future will result in people looking up your history and not taking you seriously. This now includes me I am sorry to say.

I don't know if you are a scam artist or not (the meds question was serious by the way, not meant as an insult), regardless your unprofessional attitude and unwillingness to answer on topic and valid questions asked with professional courtesy has done you more harm than good (if any).

Some of us share a small part of the blame by resorting to unprofessional behaviour without providing context but you must take responsibility for most of it.

This thread has resulted in a lot of talking but very little else of value to the casual reader.

I am afraid this is the end.

CR4 ADMIN: Edited Post

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was edited because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

I didn't want to speak at all about the site to start with, The topic was can a combination of renewable re power a closed steam plant, I didn't say it being re-powered with steam. The topic was renewable energy combinations that are NOT STEAM RELATED. NOTHING THAT BURNS. OR don't you know of any such thing.

NOW YOU still can't or don't want say anything about what the name is for the kinetic energy capturing device is, Apparently Either you don't known what kinetic energy IS or you don't know what a capturing device is? This is directly connected to renewable energy?

Apparently Either you don't known what kinetic energy IS or you don't know what a capturing device is?

Or your last comment explains it far better than I seem to be able to

Vulgar/Rude/Improper Behavior: This post was edited because it did not adhere to the behavioral policies of the site. Please review Section 14 of the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

Continuing to insult me is not going to get the answers you want. Why should it, why should I even care now (even if a number of my comments were a little off topic looking back on reflection). Regardless it doesn't excuse the way you have acted here. You talk about others acting childish.

I have been nice, I have been patient I have tried to be helpful (be it on different subjects upon reflection), and now I appear to be the only one left even bothering to answer you, doesn't that seem a little strange to you? Do you know why that is?

Try another online forum, we appear to be far too immature and closed-minded for you and I doubt we will change regardless of how many insults you make.

No, looking back again this whole thread still looks like you setting up to push your website like all your other threads. I talked about solar never mentioning steam and you shut me down talking about how closed minded I was regarding my views on existing steam then then pushed content relating to your website. You have done the same with other commenters also.

212 posts on CR4. Were any of them constructive or positive? Doesn't that make you sad? What did you expect on an discussion forum populated by (but not exclusive to) Engineers and Scientists? Don't bother answering these questions, they are just something for you to reflect on.

OK folks.

I guess most people here don't have a clue what kinetic energy is.

I am sure that most people have yard spinners in their yard or at least seen them.

1. what makes them spin?

2. what makes flags flap or tree leaves move?

3.hot air goes up.

4. What is thermal up drafts.

5. like Jeff foxworthy say's here is a sign. When in most post I have put down steam engine engine tech. Why then would I re-power a closed steam plant with steam. The thread QUESTION WAS" can a combination of renewable re-power a closed steam plant,

Does a solar heat engine updraft system thermal wind rise?

NOW can any body in there right mind be so foolish to say NO to any thing here.

And to think many wounder why I keep saying small closed minded childish people.

I am sure most people know what the old farm wind mill looks like Now think multi fan=GE 90fan," sorry you can look that up" I can not show Pict-to-Graff, Meaning capturing device

Most people know what a ice cream cone shape looks like," sorry again can't show pic-to-Graff, we will call this a cone shape structure, OK, picture USER ICON structure shape, containment chamber.

now cut the small end out just the tip & now picture it pointing at the fan, blow air into it passing from center of fan slowly to the outside edge of fan, AIR meaning kinetic energy= wind

Now without pushing public ed sites, considering advertising laws, bite one sided here when others can & I can't. OK.

science terms containment chamber= structure shape, now think all the above a capturing device, or vessel.

science term thermal=recycled waste heat coming from the large base of the cone, Remember hot air goes up, solar heat engine up draft's,=thermal wind.

Now looking at user icon, the gray shade at bottom is the solar heat engine around the base, inside the cone shape structure is hollow with spiral rings going up slit Angel=inverted tornado vortex, at small end narrow space is where the fan is, like a air nozeal blowing on the fan.

Above the narrow space is where the cooling chamber is, blue color indicates cold area=induced thermal up draft, now the heat comes from more than one source.

Most people know that anything that is compressed has heat, cooling system & compressor+ air compressor+ hydraulic fluid pumps= main work force, not steam.

Energy storage device= hydraulic accumulator's+ compressed air tanks.

Most people know that both solar & wind is NOT all the time.

Now if this seems to common folk explanation then you should not be here on CR4 anyway.

Ok

Members of global Spec CR4

It seems that I can not respond to any REF sites, Advertising laws to include pic-to-Graff's even though others here can.

It also seems that only members of energy sectors can do that, & childish remarks to to but yet I can not reply in kind.

OK thats fine, but remember this there are many renewable's that are privet proptery to keep big money away.

Open minds remember this WASTE=Renewable, Heat=Thermal, Kinetic=Wind power.

Shamefull when members can make fun of a disabled person.

With this said I will no longer be part of this CR 4. A serton Group should be proud of yourself's you won.

I for one respect the disabled as well as the veteran. I can only speak for myself on this, I draw the line when people beleive they have over and above privileges and then use a disabled vet in their defense to get away with their pseudo supermacy attitude.

A word of advice that you'd probally ignore because of your attitude, Stop talking down to people, you deservingly receive the type of responses.

OK FOLKS

This will be my last posting on this thread line.

SIMPLY PUT!

Kinetic thermal up-drafts is the engine,

Hydrostatic drive system is what drives the generators.