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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Malaysia
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Steam Generation

02/26/2015 12:17 AM

Hi everyone..need your help..is there any way to calculate total steam produced and supplied to another plant from 1 or more gas fired boiler?The plant has no any flow meter or totalizer.We merely rely on our clients meter reading which possible being tampered with in order to get lower readings and lower payments...

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#1

Re: Steam Generation

02/26/2015 9:16 AM

Just get a flow meter.

Like this one: Clamp-On Ultrasonic Flow Meter Precisely Measuring Flow

Then you will know.

Yes, it will cost you some money. Spend it and know for sure!!!

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Steam Generation

02/26/2015 9:23 PM

Or a Dp pressure gauge, that would do.

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#3

Re: Steam Generation

02/26/2015 9:51 PM

I'd look into a flowmeter. Meanwhile I'd also check how to tamper with it. Where is the trust nowadays. I wish I'd find a fuel pump like this....

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#4

Re: Steam Generation

02/27/2015 3:13 AM

At the client's point of connection is the most ethical point to do any metering.

No client wants to pay for your distribution losses.

If, for example, you want to quantify your losses, whether they be nefarious or technical, then you have to spend money ( normally alot) and then ensure that you are supplying (steam?) at a controlled and guaranteed pressure.

This chasing down of losses due to possible theft may well come back to bite you. Make sure your own house is in order before hitting the accounts department with a purchase order request with no budget cost centre that might initiate your own career counseling session.

Just saying. Accountants are an excitable bunch.

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Associate

Join Date: Nov 2014
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#5

Re: Steam Generation

02/27/2015 4:06 AM

may be you have to use the basic formula of chemistry such as stoichiometry system.

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#6

Re: Steam Generation

02/27/2015 4:15 AM

Rosli, someone in your organisation needs a reality check. The service to your client should be provided under contract. That contract would had to have had technical input ie how will we monitor the actual volume supplied?

Then the correct accomodation would have been made ie recover the metering cost within the product selling price.

The problem is made worse if there is a meaningful physical distance between your premises and the clients premises. Reasonably, you should charge for what leaves your battery limits, not what is received at the clients process, because that implies losses on their side (leaks etc..) are for your pocket.

In any event, Lyn's recommendation of an ultrasonic flowmeter could work physically, but you may run into legal problems...what you are proposing is the fiscal metering of the product you are selling, and only a few flowmeters are suitable for this (unless your client agrees in writing that they accept any proposal you might make) You need to do some intense resarch amongst the flowmeter manufacturers, and local authorities, and your client, to discover what would be acceptable.

So, drop the 'undercover' approach....if your client is cheating, they will stop when they know that you know! This might be your cheapest option, since they obviously require your steam to make profit of their own.

Good luck!

Hilton.

Good luck,

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#7

Re: Steam Generation

03/02/2015 12:10 PM

Obviously, if you have no flow meter to use as a benchmark on how much steam is being routed to the client, then you have no basis for any consideration of fraud on the part of the client.

Steam pressure gauges only provide one part of the picture: How is boiler #1 running at this moment compared to #2, and how high are the output pressures above client line pressure?

Point of purchase (at the point where client takes custody), and your product (steam at whatever temperature and pressure) leaves your supply pipe, needs to have a legal and actual custody transfer metering system called LACT. In this case it requires temperature and pressure at the point of sale, along with mass flow rate.

For instance, if your pipe were not well insulated and with lagging to prevent effects of rain on the insulation, then you may be losing steam due to in line condensation. If the client then were to utilize that steam in a prime mover (turbine), there is likely to be damage to their equipment. Do you have a condensate collection and return off your output steam supply header?

As to the metering of the steam flow, orifice meters work well provided the orifice disk is replaced on a PM basis.

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Users who posted comments:

Hilton (1); IdeaSmith (1); James Stewart (1); lyn (1); Noudge79 (1); Wal (1); ZakariaSalim10 (1)

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