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Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/09/2015 11:12 AM

I bought a car that gets great gas mileage and yet is stil fun to drive. It's a 2009 Mini Cooper S, R56 with the N14 turbocharged engine. It went in for the timing chain tensioner recall, which they fixed for free. During the repair process, the service manager recommended that I get the walnut hull blasting treatment for the intake ports and valves. I did some research, and found that the direct injection engine is prone to intake carbon build up since gasoline does not wash the intake tract during operation. http://www.rennology.com/mini-cooper-engine-intake-valve-carbon-cleaning/

I also found a very interesting alternative to disassembling the intake and blasting out the crud. http://www.hho.rs/products/usluga-ciscenje-motora-carbon-cleaning I wonder how effective the hydrogen cleaning might actually be? There are other companies making these cleaning systems http://keipertech.com/hydrogen-products/hydrogen-engine-cleaning/ I do not have the chemical engineering background to decide if this technology is viable, or if this is another Overunity snake oil application of bovine excrement.

Anyone have experience with this method and equipment?

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#1

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/09/2015 3:34 PM

I wouldn't expect to see this type of buildup on a turbocharged engine....However if I was experiencing the symptoms listed at the link you posted, I would have to yield to the mechanics recommendations....but I always go by the old saying, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it"...

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#22
In reply to #1

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/12/2017 1:30 PM

Sorry but WRONG!

All Turbocharged and Supercharged engines are MORE LIKELY to accumulate carbon deposits inside intake manifold, ports and valves, because the higher cylinder pressures are always trying to get around piston rings, increasing blow-by. This increases the oily vapors coming through the damn PCV system and thus deposit MORE crud in the inlet tract. That is the reason knowledgeable Turbo aficionados install a Catch-Can in the PCV loop, so that less oil vapors and droplets are ingested into the inlet tract and the cylinders. Initially, in a new Turbocharged car, the large internal Surface of the Intercooler will trap a lot of oil vapors, but mater on, the Intercooler won't be capable of retaining more, so in the end, it will not only start to lose termal efficiency, but it will allow the oil crud to deposit in the inlet tract. Again, knowledgeable Turbo (Or Supercharged) engine owners will perform a periodic and complete Intercooler cleaning to remove all that crude from the insides of the intercooler.

Now, on HYDROGEN CLEANING: The cleaning is done with a machine that produces a small stream of gaseous hydrogen and Oxygen, produced from pure water with electrolysis. This stream is introduced to the Brake Booster hose into the engine which is kept at idle for 30 to 40 minutes. The Hydrogen is a completely "clean" burning fuel, that is, it DOES NOT HAVE ANY additional carbon, therefore it starts to gradually and harmlessly remove the carbon by slowly burning it to harmless CO and CO2, thus cleaning the combustión chamber, the exhaust valves, the sparkplugs, and the catalytic converter. Hydrogen cleaning will restore some of the cat converter lost efficiency, up to a point. BUT IT WILL NOT clean the intake manifold or ports or intake valves, because the hydrogen combustion will take place inside the cylinder, and not before. Thus, the inlet tract can only be properly cleaned by hut Shell blasting or mechanical means, therefore requiring some dissasembly. The effectiveness of a given Hydrogen cleaning shop can be easily checked by leaving partially dirty (but working) sparkplugs. If the cleaning was successful, the ceramic insulator of the plugs will come very clean and White, almost like a new plug, perhaps with extremelly small black specs (carbon residues), but only visible with some magnification from a pocket loupe.

ON "Inlet cleaners that are burned inside the engine" (like "Sea-foam, Mopar Combustion chamber cleaner",or other from GM or Ford...:

Those are NOT completely burned in the engine cylinders, and therefore are only partially burned inside the cylinder, and end up burning into the cat converter, leaving more carbon deposits there. It is like using those damn “Injector cleaners” that use a solvent instead of gasoline to “Clean” the injector on the engine”.

Best way to completely de-carbonize an engine should follow this order: First remove the intake manifold and remove most deposits mechanically and then with the help of solvents. Clean the intake ports cylinder by cylinder with both valves closed, and rotating the engine to clean the next cylinder. If the intake valves can be seen with heavy deposits, a more complete cleaning is in order, probably the best approach is the one used by BMW dealers that uses nut shells to blast the ports and inlet valves effectively and harmlessly.

With the intake valves, ports and manifold clean, proceed to the Hydrogen cleaning and check its results by examining the sparkplugs. If there is an Intercooler, clean it by removing it and partially fill it with paint thinner (Only in intercoolers that are 100% aluminum) or hot water and detergent on those with plastic tanks. Plastic bags are put on both the inlet and outlet with rubber bands and the IC is sloshed strongly to wash all the tubes and headers.

Avoid the fuel injector “Cleaning” on the engine, remove the injectors and take them to a reputable lab to be cleaned with ultrasound and tested and measured. That would restore the engine to “as clean as new” condition, ready for emissions testing. Enjoy. Amclaussen.

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#2

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/09/2015 3:37 PM

Some automobile service shops use aerosol cans of electrical contact cleaner, brake cleaner, or an ether-based cleaner to remove the carbon while the engine is running but I am suspicious and concerned as to what engine damage may result from this type of procedure.

Based on my personal experience dealing directly with Hydrogen and knowing the safety risk from a horrific explosion and/or possible damage to the internal engine parts from the excessive heat generated by hydrogen ignition, I would not consider using H2.

I am confident it is much safer and significantly cheaper in the long run to follow the procedure of removing the plenum and performing the cleaning following the manufacturer's recommendations.

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#23
In reply to #2

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/13/2017 4:09 PM

Present day Hydrogen cleaning is a tested and true procedure, and a safe one. The equipment has a safety flame arrestor and that takes care of the flame not going out backwards. I have taken many cars to the local H2O2 cleaning shop, and 90% of them got very good to excellent results. Of course, these guys know what they are doing.

The Hydrogen is obtained from water electrolysis, and the mixture goes into the engine through the brake booster hose. The small (around 40 liters of mixture per hour) stream is gente eough to slowly burn the carbonous residues during the 40 minutes procedure (for a really dirty engine). Been there, done that.

Best proof that the procedure really works, was when I took my car to them for the first time. As I was in a hurry, I had no time to replace the sparkplugs before they did the cleaning. Those sparkplugs were dirty from the excessive Manganese antiknock additive (MMT) our stoopid government allows to be added, which gives a strong dark reddish color to the sparkplug ceramic. As soon as I returned to my home, I took out the sparkplugs and was surprised to find them as clean as new ones, with the ceramic insulator completely white! Closer inspection revealed a few very small black dots. This was achieved after only 35 minutes of H2O2 cleaning. This convinced me that the procedure really did work. Not only the sparkplugs got cleaned, but before and after emissions confirmed that the cat converter also got cleaned. BUT ONE THING MUST BE CLARIFIED: THE H2O2 CLEANING ONLY CLEANS FROM THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER ON TO THE EXHAUST, THEREFORE IT CANNOT CLEAN THE INLET MANIFOLD, VALVES OR PORTS. Those need to be cleaned by hand and some disassembly. Amclaussen.

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#3

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/09/2015 4:19 PM

The walnut hull blasting treatment is $375... I will probably buy the tools to do this myself from ECS tuning. The carbon build up is a result of oil vapor and combustion blow by gasses being recirculated through the EGR system. I'm buying a catch can system to lessen this effect.

The hydrogen cleaning systems use a trickle of hydrogen and oxygen created by electrolysis of water. The 1.4L turbo hand grenade is not what I'm after. I'm just wondering if these systems work.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/09/2015 4:35 PM

I have observed technicians spraying water directly into the intake but I wouldn't recommend that either.

Be sure to properly release all plastic keepers on the electrical wire and mechanical equipment connectors otherwise your day will not go well.

Once the plenum is off the engine and properly disassembled there are a myriad of cleaners that will remove the deposits and they are not very expensive.

The major cost is the replacement gaskets and the time involved.

I have done this procedure on different vehicles and to do it correctly takes up most of an eight hour day.

It is not possible to clean the throttle body with walnut hull or other bead type materials so chemical cleaning is mandatory and it should be done while you have the plenum off.

Be sure that whatever chemicals you use are not harmful to the plastic parts and be sure to wear proper protective equipment and clothing.

Also; When reassembling make sure you follow the proper torqueing procedure and adhere strictly to all fastener torque values.

The job appears to be more intimidating than it really is if you have the right tools and a clean place to work.

Good luck!

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#17
In reply to #3

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/23/2015 3:55 PM

I think it has the potential to work, however, if the system is not vetted, you might not want to risk a high performance engine to the treatment. If you can find documentation of others who have used with success, then why not try it? All I have learned thus far on these "HHO" systems is that if they do anything to help it is to make sure combustibles go ahead and burn in the cylinder where they are supposed to since hydrogen has the fastest known burn velocity. HHO proponent claim the gas mixture has an anomalously high burn velocity, so cautions must be exercised with respect to flashback.

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#25
In reply to #3

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/25/2017 4:59 PM

Two of my cars are turbocharged, At first I was uneasy about taking them to the local Hydrogen cleaning shop, so I talked to them and they showed me that they had cleaned many Turbo cars before, and showed me the numbers (they keep track of emissions measured both before and after, because present day government has imposed too low limits on NOx, about half the limit of California, so people wanting to meet emissions are recurring to more profound tune-ups and cleanings here).

As the (properly done) Hydrogen cleaning is performed mostly at Idle, with a measured and regulated Hydrogen+Oxygen low flowrate, the cleaning is gentle, slow and soft, and the engine and turbo hardly see a difference from normal operation, but the carbon-free hydrogen stream really reduces the carbon deposits safely, albeit slowly, as the time for a through cleaning is more than 40 minutes, maybe 30 for a well maintainde car engine that has no thick deposits. Believe me, it really works WHEN PROPERLY DONE, of course. Best demonstration was by inspecting the dark red colored spark plugs ceramic insulator becoming almost white clean. The red color was because of excessive Manganese deposits from MMT excess antiknock additive.

Those deposits were on my used sparkplugs and the Oxygen sensor: I removed all the plugs AND the O2 sensor, and those came out very clean after the H2O2 cleaning, as well as the piston tops too. I will NEVER use any "Seafoam type" cleaner again, as it leaves the cat converter and the O2 sensor completely dirty (thus the need to go for a hard run after seafoaming...

For those that still insist that seafoam-type cleaners "do wonders", I challenge them to take aout the plugs just after using seafoam: the plugs come out full of carbon and almost wet, that is the reason why the engine almost dies: the plugs can hardly fire!

Seafoam-type "cleaners" only worked on old large V8s that used carburettors, so that those accumulated thick heavy carbon deposits, there was NO Cat Converter neither O2 sensor to plug or damage. But with less older engines, Hydrogen combustion chamber/O2 sensor and Cat Converter can be properly and conveniently cleaned; BUT the intake runners, ports and valves cannot, so they need to be cleaned by soft blasting or by hand, so they require to remove the intake manifold at least.

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#5

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/09/2015 7:20 PM

My friend, have I got a deal for you!

You will thank me every time you fill your gas tank and every time you change your oil, not after 3,000 miles, not after 5,000 miles, not even after 10,000 miles.

Carbon deposits will just be an unpleasant memory from the past, trust me my friend.

"How is this possible", you say.

Well, get ready for the most revolutionary breakthrough of the century.

Forget tearing your engine down! Walnut shells? Are you kidding?

All you need is

HHO Hydrogen On Demand Generator Systems For Your ...!!!!

All your worries will be over.

Seriously, if it is running fine and getting decent mileage, I'm with SolarEagle.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/10/2015 5:22 AM

Posted in errorMyBad!

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#6

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/09/2015 11:06 PM

many years ago i used to clean out my car motors by bringing the motor to operation temperature - remove the air cleaner - and with someone in the car keeping it from dying by stepping on the gas pedal just enough to keep it idling i would slowly pour in a quart of automatic transmission fluid into the carberrator. when that is all in shut off the motor and wait until the same time next day or longer. start the car and take off down the road like a bat out of hell until the smoke stops pouring out the tail pipe. no more deposits in the combustion chamber. now that was then and this is now and i am not exactly sure of what will happen to your catalytic converter these days. maybe someone else knows about that.

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#31
In reply to #6

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/29/2017 3:30 PM

QUOTE: ..."start the car and take off down the road like a bat out of hell until the smoke stops pouring out the tail pipe"...

The reason for this "method" for having to do that "bat out of hell" run, is because any heavier than gasoline hydrocarbon based solvent is burned poorly inside the cylinders, period!

Please take the time to remove the sparkplugs and Oxygen sensor next time you do that "sea-foaming" or any other similar cleaning circus act and BEFORE doing the Hell run!

Both plugs and sensor will come out VERY dirty and the plugs will be wet. That is THE reason why You have to keep the engine accelerated to prevent it from dying! Then, you HAVE TO keep the pedal far more pressed to be able to keep it running.

The aptly described "BAT OUT OF HELL RUN" is NEEDED to be able to raise the temperatures inside the cylinders and burn the added dirt out of them, restoring the sparkplugs into "operable" conditions again. The Copious amount of whitish smoke is just partly burned hydrocarbons from the "sea-foam" type of product, as it is IMPOSSIBLE to properly burn in the engine.

People "feel" they have achieved a great "cleaning" (placebo effect), when in reality the most they have achieved is (possibly) removed just the most soft or porous carbon deposits, but this is going to plug the Catalytic Converter, foul the O2-Sensor, and leave the sparkplugs more fouled than before the "cleaning"... In addition, this bad practice leaves the engine oil contaminated and diluted, requiring a complete oil change, (or leave it alone and reduce the useful life of the engine...).

Look, in the OLD days, the typical large displacement and Detuned V8s (thanks to Eco-nuts ordering that to reduce emissions), people often ran the carburettor too rich in order to "recover" some lost power, that together with slow city traffic, resulted in thick and porous carbonaceous deposits inside combustion chamber and piston top. some engines developed too much deposits, and those raised the effective compression ratio of the engine and produced either detonation or preignition. Thus, the always too-intelligent and proactive chemical or "Tune-up in a bottle" people soon developed a "solution"... in the form of several similarly used "solvents]" and "cleaners" to avoid the large time and expense to remove those deposits. That was HOW those "miracle in a can" products appeared in the market.

There were NO Cat converters or O2 Sensors to damage, and the large pre-computer era V8s were powerful enough to get the car on that "Bat out of hell" run without causing major trouble. That kind of "cleaning" will produce trouble codes in most modern engines, BTW. And that is nothing compared to neighbors complaining about the enormous thick and pestilent white cloud produced in the "process".

IT is as useless as trying to "clean" the fuel injectors by burning a solvent from a canister, instead of properly removing the injectors OUT of the engine and taking them to a proper ultrasonic cleaning and testing place, That “solvent cleaning” will only dislodge some of the dirt, to carry it to the small atomizing orifices, where the harder deposits will lodge and render the “cleaning ineffective, but the solvent is usually toluene or Xylene based, and it happens that both are aromatic solvents that are too rich in carbon vs Hydrogen content, and that is going to foul sparkplugs, sensors and the Cat Converter…

Another stoopid practice is to use “injector cleaner” additives in a fuel tank that has not been cleaned in a long time. That will only loosen some dirt from the tank, lines, filter or pressure regulators, to be carried to the injector nozzle and plug it or mess the spraying pattern. I’ve seen the mediocre and vain results of those wrongful practices many times, and try to do my best to recommend against those.

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#7

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/10/2015 12:50 AM

I took a quick look at your links, and can positively say the following from a fair bit of chemical formulating experience: it probably does next to nothing before it hits the combustion chamber. Hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2) gases at atmospheric pressure and in the percentages that would be supplied to an idling engine by these machines for a half hour are not going to dissolve the sort of oxidized, carbonized and cross linked gunk that would build up in the intake. There is a valid question as to the possibility of increased burn and the effect of water vapour from it cleaning out the combustion chamber and valves, but that's a different story.

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#26
In reply to #7

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/25/2017 5:31 PM

IN REPLY TO JNB: I agree with you. Please read my comments above: I've taken my cars to the local Hydrogen cleaning shop, and it WORKS for the following: 1) Combustion chamber, 2) sparkplugs, 3) O2 sensor, 4) Cat Converter. ONLY.

I say I'm SURE, because I've taken the efforts to check by taking out the plugs and O2-Sensor both before and after the cleaning, and took a look inside the sparkplug holes with an inspection camera, SO I AM 100% SURE those areas came out pretty clean.

NOW, the intake tract is ANOTHER thing. You are right to point out that the Hydrogen plus Oxygen CANNOT and WILL NOT clean those areas simply because there is NO combustion there, period!

Therefore, a manual cleaning (intake manifold removal, plus solvents and a lot of brushing OR soft-blasting is UNAVOIDABLE.

Those stubborn enough to pretend to "clean" the inlet tract with either:

a) Brake fluid, b) Seafoam, c) MOPAR MCCC or any similar fluid or d) diesel, will only remove SOME deposits from the Combustion chamber, at the heavy penalty of severely fouling the Cat Converter, O2-Sensor and sparkplugs, Thus the need to do a "Pedal-to-the metal" run, as this is absolutely needed in order to remove the conductive carbon deposits on the sparkplugs!

I will be careful and say that I am in NO position to tell that the Exhaust Valves are cleaned by the H2O2, because I have not yet dissasembled enouh to remove the Exhaust manifold to take a look there yet, but suppose those won't accumulate to much deposits as the intake valves. Amclaussen.

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#8

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/10/2015 3:29 AM

This is a bit off topic as it won't clean the intake ports but I recall my father talking of having to to do 'instant de-cokes' on cars and trucks during WW2. Remove the spark plug and set that piston on top of the compression stroke, direct the flame from an oxyacetylene welder into the combustion chamber until the carbon was glowing (how to detect?), then shut off the acetylene and let the carbon be burned off in the oxygen. Anyone tried that? Sounds like a lot of experience would be needed to avoid damage.

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#10

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/10/2015 5:35 AM

The real red flag on this article is the claim for increased mileage.

You cannot get more out of any process than you put into it.(Fission excepted).

To get 1 HP more output,you must put in more than 1HP.To produce enough hydrogen to affect milage,you would need to provide more electrical energy to break the molecular bonds that you will ever get when they are re united in combustion.

Insofar as cleaning the parts in transit,I seriously doubt it,because the amount of Hydrogen is very small and insignificant.

(Otherwise it would load up your alternator to a disastrous level)

But, as usual, people will resist admitting that they have been taken to the circus by PT Barnum,and claim to see a performance increase.

The placebo effect is real.

(I was once hooked on placebos,and the doctors told me there was no cure.

They send me to rehab where they put me on real(?) medication.)

My advice is to bite the bullet and do the job yourself.

That is the only way you will know it is done right.

99 percent of dealers give the rest of them a bad name.

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#24
In reply to #10

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/13/2017 5:09 PM

I agree with your reasoning: The Hydrogen on-board system is a scam. BUT, the Hydrogen cleaning with the engine at idle and fed from a large shop floor H2O2 generator fed by AC power that produces around 40 liters per hour is an effective cleaning for the combustion chamber, the O2 sensor and the Cat converter. My own testing shows that the MMT contaminated sparkplugs got very clean from the H2O2 cleaning, as the piston top and crown (as viewed with an endoscope), and the Oxygen sensor too and by looking at the Cat converter fron face through the Oxygen sensor orifice. As our dumb and exaggerately Eco-Dumb city government has imposed too low emission limits for our cars (half the NOx levels from California), we are pressed to use as many as possible tricks to get the emissions test passed. That led me to experiment with the local Hydrogen cleaning shop, and the results are worthwhile. These guys run an emissions analyzer during the cleaning, and you are allowed to see how those levels go up and down during and after the cleaning. In respect to NOX (the most difficult for us to meet at this moment), we have confirmed a reduction from 15 to 50%, depending on the condition of the engine and emissions devices. Thus, a borderline car can pass thanks to the cleaning. The local shop has cleaned about 2,500 cars so far, so they have a large data base by now. I have no business relation to them other than being a satisfied customer, that happens to work at a large R&D center for the petroleum industry, and therefore, happens to be quite demanding and scientifically adept. But, as I said in other comments, that cleaning does NOTHING to clean the inlet tract: Manifold, ports and valves, that needto be cleaned by hand, either mechanically or with soft blasting media. Amclaussen Chemical Engineer.

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#11

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/10/2015 5:59 AM

Think some of the respondents here are conflating the cleaning method to which you're referring (which may or may not work) with HHO/overunity/snake oil ideas, which are about as effective as (and a lot more costly than) tying magnets to the fuel line to get more mileage.

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#12

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/10/2015 7:23 AM

I understand how the problem happen, I can even visualize it perfectly.

The following is a possible fix only! I am sure that some here will not like it or try it out, BUT COMPLAIN LOUDLY!!!

I think your problem might be fixed, or at least seriously reduced, is to change the lube oil you are using to full Synthetic, if you are not already using it...

If you are using it already, do remember that buying from companies like "Jiffy Lube" or similar is no guarantee as to either quality or type of oil by the way!! So it may not be the quality your engine needs....

The reason being, that I have mentioned this, is that a quality full synthetic tends to burn or evaporate or both and leave next to no residue behind.

You can test this with a piece of clean steel or aluminium on a stove top and place a couple of drops of synthetic on it before slowly heating it up.

A few drops of normal mineral oil on the same plate for comparison is a good idea....there will be massive amounts of smelly smoke, so open the windows!!

This test is what convinced me many years ago......(I must try it again with modern oils....)

If the synthetic oil is of a high quality, you will see hardly any residue. The mineral oil will leave a thick black mark, I believe exactly the stuff coating parts of your car engine....

As to whether simply running with full synthetic will remove the existing deposit or not I have no idea......I would guess not....but its a cheap alternative to test for us all here.... Let us know how you get on!!

These valves appear to have components that can rust/corrode, so if such a car sat around for long periods, rust can cause problems. Turbo VWs are particularly prone to this! Also inside the variable geometry Turbos itself as well.....

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#28
In reply to #12

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/25/2017 6:21 PM

In response to ANDY GERMANY: Andy, the difference between Synthetic and straight Mineral Oils is very real; but your comparison "test" is not.-

Try to repeat it, but put a sample of USED sinthetic oil instead of putting it from a newly opened bottle...

As soon as the oil is used for some time, it starts to degrade (less with the better synthetics, but unavoidable). Thus, for the comparison to be realistic and representative, the oil overheating stove essay needs to be done with used oil from the cranckase, not with new oil.

Used oil carries a lot of substances in addition to the synthetic formula, and those contaminants help even the synthetic oil to breakdown. That is the reason even best quality synthetic oils is not ETHERNAL, and needs to be changed.

I praise myself to perform very timely and expertly performed oil changes, and use the best synthetic oils, but the sad truth is that even with synthetic and through oil changes PLUS oil flushes at short intervals, the damn PCV system will still foul the intake tract and ports and valves. Just take out an intercooler from a well maintained Turbo car, and the solvent wash will come out almost black form degraded synthetic oil residues and deposits. Been there, done that. Amclaussen.

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#13

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/10/2015 11:44 AM

I've only used Mobil 1 full synthetic 0W-40 and 5W-30.

The hydrogen is not a gas mileage/power increase, it is a method to clean carbon deposits from a direct injection engine which does not have the gasoline flowing past the intake valves. The crankcase gases are the source of the deposits.

I've found borescopes have become much more affordable, and the tools for walnut hull blasting will pay for themselves in one treatment.

I was just hoping that the hydrogen treatment would be a viable alternative to disassembling of the intake tract, removal of spark plugs to insure valves are closed, and blasting off deposits with chunks of squirrel bait!

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#29
In reply to #13

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/25/2017 6:24 PM

The Hydrogen cleaning is still useful for the Cat Converter, and will leave the combustion chamber clean, no doubt. But the intake tract still will require the (soft) blasting.

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#14

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/10/2015 11:53 AM

I think that rather than walnut shells, which are often used instead of sand or glass beads as a medium for blasting, I would opt for the use of CO2 pellets since they would simply sublimate at the completion and would probably eliminate some of the required disassembly needed by the use walnut shells.

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#30
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Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/25/2017 6:28 PM

While good enough for paint removal without damaging the metal in restorations, the CO2 is TOO SOFT and will demand a LOOOONG blasting to remove the stubborn deposits, believe me, I've removed quite a few and some require quite STIFF bristles with strong solvents and a lot of effort.

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#15

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/10/2015 6:34 PM

All "cleaning" action of that method will be limited to combustion chamber. (And still have doubts about its efficiency). Intake ports and valves will NOT be affected according to their own product theory of operation, since intake temp is not high enough to brake H2. Carbon buildup there is mostly burned oil coming from three sources, crankcase venting, containing some engine oil that is normally inserted to turbo intake, valve stem inefficient or defective oil sealing, and turbo bearing ineficient oil sealing under certain (not all) turbo operating conditions. Now, relatively high valve temps (aggressive valve timing, overlap etc, made possible by using direct injection, and the turbo itself, cause that high temp), force that oil to turn into carbon build up. So I'd definitely go by the classic decarburizing method. Good luck. S.M.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

03/11/2015 6:29 AM

I feel your answer rated a GA.

It ticked all the known reasons for such deposits. Thanks.

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#18

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

12/21/2016 10:59 AM

Hi all from sunny Florida.

In response to MikeMack's post, I can tell you that HHO cleaning works, at least, it did from my experience (October, 2016)

I am the original owner of a 2001 Isuzu Trooper with the 3.5 liter V6 engine. The vehicle has approx. 135K miles as of 12/2016. This engine is notorious for burning oil and having lots of deposit issues.

My check engine light came in in the spring of 2016 with the OBD code showing insufficient EGR flow. This was causing the computer to think the engine was running lean, so it was dumping more fuel into the cylinders to richen up the fuel mix. This dropped my mileage from approx. 18 highway down to about 10MPG and was costing me a lot of money in gas and I was only getting about 200 miles in range out of a 20 gallon tank (combined highway and city driving)

I tried numerous times to clean the EGR valve and tubes with various chemicals including Seafoam, carb cleaner and others. I replaced the EGR valve, I removed and cleaned the throttle body and reamed and cleaned out the EGR tube inside the manifold, none of which worked to reestablish sufficient EGR flow.

While researching online, I came across some old school decarbonization methods, including water injection into the air intake, and further Googling led me to learn about HHO carbon cleaning. I drove down to another part of Florida and had the HHO treatment done and over the next few weeks, my check engine light went off several times, but then came back on. I learned this was to be expected as the loosened carbon worked it's way out of my engine.

6 weeks after the treatment, I took a long road trip of about 2500 miles, and after approx. 200 miles at the beginning of the trip, my check engine light went out and has stayed out for the last two months. Since then, my vehicle has been running almost like when I bought it new and my mileage has increased back up the original 18MPG highway rating. I have much better acceleration and the truck runs fantastic. I am now getting approx. 350 miles in range out of my 20 gallon tank.

I am sold on this process. It works. It worked for me for sure. The company I used was a franchise in Florida of

www. carboncleaningusa.com
Good luck!

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

12/21/2016 6:54 PM

Spam! Bugger off!

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#20
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Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

12/21/2016 7:56 PM

No Sir Mr. JohnDG- not spam. I am Jeff Brown in St. Petersburg, Florida. That is my Isuzu I am writing about and I am telling the truth.

I explained everything exactly as it happened in regards to my truck. I had never even heard of the hydrogen carbon cleaning idea until after I had tried everything under the sun to clean out my EGR and get my Check Engine light to go off. When I came across this thing on Google, I researched it, and since it wasn't that expensive, I drove 140 miles south down to Cape Coral, Florida to the carbon cleaning guy and spent about 150 dollars getting it done. I am as surprised as anyone about this, but it worked, and it worked very well. My mileage is back, my power feels way better and I'm really pleased with the results. Feel free to email me with any questions.

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#21
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Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

12/22/2016 3:00 AM

In that case, please accept my apologies. My reasoning was that your post follows a familiar pattern. First post by a new member, replying on an old thread, singing the praises of some fairly obscure technique and giving a link to a supplier's website.

With spammers, it's usually their first and only post (unless they find another old thread on the same subject).

Merry christmas!

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#27
In reply to #18

Re: Carbon Deposits on Intake Ports and Valves Cleaned with Hydrogen?

08/25/2017 6:06 PM

Your experience with the Isuzu mirrors mine with several cars here. In my city, we are subject to heavy traffic jams and a lot of slow city driving thanks to stoopid government lack of attention to properly sinchonizing of traffic lights. In my experience, most (95%) of the PCV systems are POORLY DESIGNED, so that too much oil droplets or mist is recirculated to the intake manifold in order to "burn" it and avoid adding this stream to the rest of the emissions of the vehicle. BUT the so called "separator" (a too simple baffle arrangement inside the valve cover) is badly designed and too much oil droplets, mist and vapors form heavy deposits on the intake ports and valves, which also receive the oil dripping from the valve stem seals (that NEED to receive SOME oil to lubricate the valve stem). To compound the problem, the EGR also injects its stream of partly burned hydrocarbons, so that the exhaust MAY be cleaner, but the combustion chamber and intake tract do NOT.

In some cars, just removing the oil replacement cap is an invitation to get ALL THE UNDERSIDE of the hood sprayed with a lot of oil if the cap is removed with th engine at idle! This proves that the "separator" is NOT really working, but that just returns SOME of the oil back into the valve cover, while allowing too much of the oil into the engine.

This not only causes a lot of deposits, but the small oil droplets promote detonation at low RPM and high boost in Turbo engines, as the oil has nil octane index. this has been known for many years by turbocharged engine experts, that deem the use of an Efficient CATCH CAN as ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY in turbo engines that produce much more Blow-By than normally aspirated engines, but these still benefit from the installation of a GOOD one, preferably preceded by a small cooler. And by those words, I mean a Catch can that has well designed internals, as some cheap ones are just an aluminum can with some form of drain to remove SOME of the oil. A GOOD one will have centrifugal flow and a fine mesh inside. Without some cooling, the oil vapor stream will still carry enough oil to foul the engine, so the very best arrangement I've seen, is to route the PCV valve outlet to a small cooler placed in front of the radiator, and then route the hose back to the Catch-Can, so that the cooler vapors have a chance to condense and be catched. Just take a look at the Intercooler of a Turbo car that has never been cleaned: A LOT OF OIL and Carbon will come out when washing the intercooler inside with solvents! Been there, done that. Amclaussen.

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Amclaussen (10); Andy Germany (2); HiTekRedNek (2); James Stewart (1); JNB (1); JohnDG (3); jsbrown (2); lyn (1); MikeMack747 (2); NeilA (1); rabbit16 (1); SHOCKHISCAN (2); SimpleMind (1); SolarEagle (1); Spinco (1)

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