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Are Liquid Metals Green?

Posted December 19, 2009 8:02 AM

Recent articles highlight the fact that advanced energy storage techniques are needed if renewable energy sources are to become practical. More recently, there has been breaking news of the development of a liquid-metal battery to store energy from renewable resources, such as wind and solar. As a metals professional, do you think molten metals are practical for this purpose? Can they be made utility-size?

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Guru
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#1

Re: Are Liquid Metals Green?

12/19/2009 9:37 PM

To pick one example, liquid sodium has a very high specific heat; thus it takes a relatively small amount to store or transmit heat energy. In large bulk, it costs about 10 Euros/kg.

As to its greenness, I don't know if it gives off problematical gases when in the molten state, what the process is for producing it, and how abundant it is. Container and piping components must be properly selected to avoid corrosion.

The label "green" tends to be attached to all sorts of things without necessarily considering the whole picture. As in electric cars; green on the final end, but where did the electricity come from?

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#3
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Re: Are Liquid Metals Green?

12/20/2009 12:39 AM

Tornado:

I think the liquid metal use specified is as a componenet of an electric battery, not for storing thermal energy.

I feel like i am missing something here, so help me out. why would anyone use sodium to store thermal energy, when water has a higher specific heat, lower cost, and more managable corrosion characteristics. i know sodium was use in some early nuclear reactors, but i believe this had more to do with cross section for neutron absorption than for specific heat.

Benbenben

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Are Liquid Metals Green?

12/20/2009 1:41 AM

I read into the question an idea of generalizing this to a "thermal battery" rather than just electrical--probably departing too far from the original intent.

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Guru
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#6
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Re: Are Liquid Metals Green?

12/20/2009 5:01 PM

In the case of thermal storage, the operating temperature is important. Water has a large heat of fusion but the 0C point is not very useful to keep your house warm. It is very good if you want to store cooling capacity from the winter. This is why molten salts are frequently used to store thermal energy at temperatures that can easily be used to heat up buildings or produce steam.

Now as for the electrical batteries, I consider a technology "green" if it is:

1-Easy to re-use or recycle.

2-Produces a minimum of emissions during its life, including accidental releases.

3-It is based on abundant material that don't require destroying the environment on a large scale to obtain.

4-It as real benefits and does not need an endless supply of money (grants, subsidies...) to be kept running.

The main question is does it really help or simply make a few people feel good about themselves?

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#2

Re: Are Liquid Metals Green?

12/19/2009 11:42 PM

Liquid metals come in all sorts of colors, and generally change color depending on their temperatures...I have never personally seen a green-colored liquid metal, but that is no indication of whether one exists or not. Is liquid sodium yellow, as it is in it's solid form? At what temperature does it turn white?

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#5

Re: Are Liquid Metals Green?

12/20/2009 11:14 AM

Brine solution is now used for heat storage. It is geen. No pollution.

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#8
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Re: Are Liquid Metals Green?

07/21/2010 12:50 PM

Concentrated Brine is one of the most commonly regulated pollutants. Concentrated Salt water solutions severely impact the habitats that they enter, and the beneficial uses of any water source they may be discharged into. Salt contamination is one of the most common causes of drinking water degradation. Discharges of Brine even to the oceans can cause localized dead zones iof not properly and expensively discharged in a manner that allows mixing and dilution before reaching the habitat. So No Brine is not necessarily green and is definitely a well defined pollutant.

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#7

Re: Are Liquid Metals Green?

12/21/2009 5:55 AM

The biggest limitation on more use of electric cars is storage.

Flow batteries show some promise here.

One which is working is the Br/Zn battery.

Both materials are readily obtainable in quantity and, as they are not consumed, the result may be regarded as "green" (whatever that means these days).

http://www.electricitystorage.org/site/technologies/znbr_batteries/ is one site, but there are several.

The thought of bromine leaking everywhere in the event of a crash is somewhat scary.

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