150 LED bulb uses 9W, costs $65

That'll catch on like a house on fire, then.

and the more people that start using them then the more they produce, production prices go down, and before you know it they are retailing at $15...

Ilm happy to be a pioneer!

This is SO "not" news. I was looking into a downtown tattoo parlour t'other day, and some dude with carpet tattoos was having LED's inserted under the skin in his forehead that would flash in decorative patterns. Now THAT was "news"! A lightbulb. Hmmm. Where ya bin? (I mean this in the nicest possible way of course)

Just curious...I wonder how much energy it takes to create those LED's. I wonder what the environmental imact might be...like...does an LED factory pollute the streams or use up rare elements? When they "burn" out, does their disposal create a problem? Is there a tiny trickle current which sucks energy all the time (like my computer has) which would add up. Can they thermal runaway, and if they do, is the smoke toxic?

We are seeing these LED lights all over..most traffic lights in Ottawa for instance use LED's, and I note that more than half the trucks on the highway use LED's for their running and signal lights. So they are here to stay. I am just wondering if there is a downside. I have not heard of any...but it would be a rare technological innovation indeed that did not have ANY downside. (The power companies go out of business due to poor sales? Naaah...not very likely.)

As an amateur astronomer, I personally would like to see a way to reduce "light pollution". But I don't think this is it.

And I kinda like the idea of lights under my fingernails so I can see the keys on my keyboard in the dark. (Okay, glued onto the outside of the nails...sheesh.)

At about 1/2 the wattage of an equivalent high efficiency fluorescent replacement bulb, it is a big step in the right direction.

As already mentioned, high volume and improvements in manufacturing will bring the costs way down. Plus, in many areas, the utility will offset some cost to the consumer.

Even at $65 they would be cost effective replacements for incandescents in some "hard to replace" locations, but not cost effective against the fluorescents hardly anywhere yet.

Off-the-grid applications are obvious right now.

Also they produce about 1/7 the heat of the incandescents, and 1/2 the heat of the fluorescents so this is a big plus in some applications. Not to mention that the fluorescents take some time to reach full brightness at low ambient temperatures and I assume the LEDs are much better in that respect.

BTW: Before you snicker at the 20 cents per kWh mentioned, I am paying that now on Long Island, NY.

Greg

Greg G laments: "BTW: Before you snicker at the 20 cents per kWh mentioned, I am paying that now on Long Island, NY."

-----

Lon Gisland, NY?

Well, there you are!

Heck, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't be sitting here reading my flippant post to CR4 when I could be urgently dialing Three-Man Movers, Inc. to get me the hell outta here!

-e

When you consider that we were paying something like $35 for the miniature fluorescent light when they first hit the market some 20 years ago, add inflation and the $65 price tag isn't as bad as the $35 price tag was two decades ago.

This year I bought eight ea blue and white 60-LED Christmas light strands for under $15 (USD) each. Christmas lights are specialty items, which makes them more expensive than, say, light bulbs used for illumination. So then, why should the bulb cost $65 (USD)? Someone's gouging someone!

Btw, my fiance suggests I implant LEDs in my nose so that I can see where I'm going at night and - she suggests - this would also greatly appeal to my Inner Flasher.

-e

I would hazard to guess that the Christmas tree LEDs were predominantly red, yellow, orange and green while the ones in the article are white. The white LED are somewhat more expensive to manufacture that the coloured ones but as others have said given the economies associated with mass production will quickly reduce the price.

Hi Masu,

The red, yellow, orange, and green strands are "a dime a dozen" so to speak. No, the lights I bought this year were strands of deep, saturated cobalt blue LEDs and strands of very intense white LEDs, at $15 per strand of 60. What's more impressive about their intensity is that they operate only 1/2 the AC cycle, and only over the top of the sine wave. I looked at the current through them and they peak at about 25 mA, so I know they're not being overdriven too hard (20 mA is typical, as you probably know). These babies are intrinsically bright, making them the sort of lamps you'd probably find in that outrageously expensive (IMO), $65 bulb.

I can see that the mfr probably incorporates a full-wave bridge rectifier to get a better duty cycle, but in consumer quantities these aren't expensive enough (whether encapsulated or discrete) to justify the cost of the bulb.

I'd say that, if anything, the complexity of the thing - multiple circuit boards (probably) soldered to a carrier board, etc. - contributes a lot to the manufacturing costs, but still not enough I'd think to justify gouge-rate prices.

-e

Hi e,

The location of manufacture could be having a huge effect. We are somewhat complacent about the prices that we pay for mass produced items from countries like China. Not only is the labor cost something like a tenth that in developed countries but they are notorious for not paying royalties to designers. By the time you add all the bits and pieces in its pretty hard to manufacture any electronic device for much under $100 in countries like USA, UK and Australia.

Even so the price is over the top and I still get the feeling that it is being driven but unrealistic accounting targets. There are too many people out there that insist on a return on their investment in unrealistic periods and it is killing a lot of good ideas.

Something else I just thought of is that the cost of electronic items is tide more closely to the number of components than to its complexity. Having a device that has more components in it than a mobile phone is likely to cost more even though the mobile phone is infinitely more complex. A device that has at least 96 separate semiconductors is a complex assembly even though the circuit and device is simple.

See here: www.elecosn.com

Here are dimmable LED Bulb, and LED incandescent bulb

Having thought about this from a slightly different perspective, this price seems unrealistic. Are the items going to be produced as a prototype or as a production item? If there going into serious production, why is the price so high? I don't think this can be compared to fluorescent tubes, as there have been LED's about for years, and they are produced by the millions, so this thing becomes an automated assembly part. Bare in mind I bought a wind up torch using 3 white LED's this weekend for 99p (about $2) and that puts out as much light as my camping torch, and it's a low production novelty item! My message to the manufacturers is: - Get your process sorted and knock them out at a realistic price that can demonstrably save money and power, and they will fly off the shelves.

It's always possible that the bean counters that are driving the project want to pay off the plant an equipment costs too quickly. I this is the case it's a great pity because their short sightedness is likely to kill of a great product with enormous potential.

Yep. Good, old-fashioned greed comes in many forms. One cure is good, old-fashioned competition. Another? Bankruptcy.

-e

Hi PlbMak,

Just an aside here: the first time I'd ever heard of the UK version of "flashlight" was when I listened to "Trick of the Tail" by Genesis. At first I was confused, as the setting of the story (which it is, actually) seems to occur in modern times; the term "blinkered arcade," for example. I thought it odd that in the Age of Electricity, it was quite an oversight for the lyricist to speak of using "torches" in this setting. Live and learn.

-e

So it's YOU listening to Genesis! I really can't comment...................

Guilty, as charged.

-e

Genesis - Robbery, Assault & Battery Lyrics

(Banks/Collins)

The streets were deserted though the police were alerted,

They considered the phone call a hoax.

Furtively glancing then jauntily prancing

The youth caught the guards unaware.



Slipping between them he ought to have seen then

The eyes and their owner so near.

With torch shining bright he strode on in the night

Till he came to the room with the safe.



"Hello son, I hope you're having fun."

"You've got it wrong Sir, I'm only the cleaner."

With that he fired, the other saying as he died,

"You've done me wrong," it's the same old song forever.



Robbery, assault and battery,

The felon and his felony.

Robbery, assault and battery,

The felon and his felony.



Picked up the diamonds and bundles of fivers

He pushed them well down in his sack.

But the alarm had been sounded, he was completely surrounded

But he had some more tricks up his sleeve.



"Come outside with your hands held high."

"You'll not get me alive Sir, I promise you that Sir."

With that he fired, the other saying as he died

"You've done me wrong," it's the same old song forever.



Robbery, assault and battery,

The felon and his felony.

Robbery, assault and battery,

The felon and his felony.



"He's leaving via the roof, the bastard's got away.

God always fights on the side of the bad man."



"I've got clean away but I'll be back some day,

Just the combination will have changed.

Some day they'll catch me, to a chain they'll attach me,

Until that day I'll ride the old crime wave.



If they try to hold me for trial

I'll stay out of gaol by paying my bail

And after I'll go to the court of appeal saying

"You've done me wrong," it's the same old song forever."



Done me wrong - same old song - done me wrong.

Gaol is another one. Is that how Jail is commonly spelled in the UK?

-e

Your not helping..........

Gaol is another one. Is that how Jail is commonly spelled in the UK?

Yes and in Australia and New Zealand as well. Well at least some some of the time and according to the dictionary.

Now you've got me going! Gaol is the original spelling, jail is the US spelling, but jail seems to be accepted worldwide. I'm NOT HAPPY! I will use gaol, detention, centre, dungeon, confinement, imprison, and lock up before I use jail. For no other reason then it's a word that is increasingly going out of use. When is the last time you saw gaol in print? Right. Rant over..

I will use gaol, detention, centre, dungeon, confinement, imprison, and lock up before I use jail.

Here here! I would be one of the worlds worst spellers but now I have managed to delete most of the American and subsumed the correct spellings in my spell checker I am dammed if I will go back to using the supplied version.

When is the last time you saw gaol in print?

I can't remember which is way to long. That's why when people try and sell me a newspaper I give them a stern look then ask why I would bother buying something that is out of date, full of spelling, grammatical and factual errors and which has a primary function of getting me to spend money I don't have on things I don't need, want or have a use for.

Gee I can be a surly sod!

Good lord! You'd think I started a Range War!

I found the spelling of these terms interesting, even fascinating and, no, I'm not promoting The American Heritage Dictionary spellings of any word. My question was just that - a question. I don't live in your countries; you do, and so you are native authorities (like it or not) on word usage and spelling in your particular regions. And PlbMac, I knowed you was married to some dixie chick from San Antone, and y'all have probably had it "up to here" (gestering wildly) with The American Way but, please, don't get your panties in a wad over this. Simple question, that's all.

I'd probably adopt the spelling of gaol, too - seeing, as it is, the original spelling - but nobody here'd know what the hell I was talking about.

Btw, my daughter and I also "collect" archaic words. We have lots of fun inflicting them on our friends. My fave is "withal."

-e

Ah. Guilty as charged, and probably what's made me sensitive to the use of the English language. As to punctuation, try this: -

'A woman: without her, man is nothing.'

'A woman, without her man, is nothing.'

And remember, 4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions.

P.S. back to the original thread, I can buy a job lot of soft white LED's of that interweb thing for a pittance.

My rant is the increasingly widespread and ridiculous use of the apostrophe to indicate the plural: "They parked their car's on the street." "Autographed football's for sale after the game."

Worse, the illiterates here mix truly plural words with words that look like like possessives: "Computer's and cars for sale here."

Morons. Marching morons.

I surely hope this practice hasn't left our shores and spread elsewhere. Yes, here in the States I don't spell "jail" as "gaol" (not that I have the occasion to use either word all that often), but I sure as hell don't end a plural word in "'s."

Do either of you gents see this nonsense in your neck of the woods?

-e

Do either of you gents see this nonsense in your neck of the woods?

Yes, but I don't think it's quiet as bad here as in the US. Here is today's trivia that I think you will find interesting. The use of an apostrophe between the noun and an "s" to indicate possession is actually there to indicate that there is a letter missing. Originally to indicate possession the letters "es" were added to the end of a noun. For example if Fred had a dog it would be "Fredes dog". Over the years people abbreviated it to "Fred's dog" and the apostrophe is there to indicate that the "e" is missing. With the word "its" however it can mean either "it is" or "itses" so when you see it written as "it's" it is taken to mean "it is" and for possession you ditch the apostrophe. In the possessive form both the "e" and "s" have been dropped and you don't normally place an apostrophe at the end of the word.

Something else I find interesting is the existence of archaic laws that have been forgotten about but are still in the statutes. For example in certain parts of Australia it is illegal to have prostitutes in the opium den of a public house after 6:00 pm.

There was another one that I believe was used in England that has since been repealed that gave the accused the right to trial by combat. Evidently you had a choice to either trial by jury or combat and if you chose combat you had to fight the king's champion from noon till dusk or death. If you won or held out till dusk you were deemed innocent as it was an act of God and God was all knowing so if you were innocent he wouldn't let you loose. From what I have heard, but not been able to confirm, somebody when being committed to stand trial insisted on trial by combat rather than trial by jury. A hasty search of the statute books revealed that nobody had ever gotten round to repealing the law so it stood. The criminal got off as the post of King's champion was now an honorary title held by some frail old gentleman.

There are a myriad of things like this all over the world and I find them totally fascinating as it gives us an insight into the way people were thinking when the laws were made.

Thanks for the interesting bit of apostrophaic history (I made that word up - I think).

"For example in certain parts of Australia it is illegal to have prostitutes in the opium den of a public house after 6:00 pm."

Yes, that's a problem here, too. The law. Not the prostitutes.

In the U.S. those kinds of laws are known as "Blue Laws." (Why they pick on "blue" is anyone's guess, but I don't like it. Blue is my favorite color.)

One Blue Law here states that the man must be on top (presumably there were a lot of missionaries back then), and the curtains must be drawn.

I could just imagine the local sheriff busting someone (through open window): "Okay, lady, git down off him an' put yer hands on that thar bed. And YEW, mister! Yew too! An' don' look at me that way. Yer guilty an' you know it! Besides, don'chu two perps know that Roman Shades ain't legal in this county? 'Splain that to the judge!"

-e

Another Blue Law - this one in Massachusetts - says that the man of the house must wear a sidearm to church.

Imagine that. Especially in Massachusetts.

-e

Nice English lessons. My hot button is when people say something is 8 times smaller than something else. Seeing as how one times smaller is zero. (And there is NO G in "luxurious".) But I digress....

Anybody know how toxic the smoke is when one of the LED's gets toasted by my soldering iron? Will these save as much energy as a "smart" light which senses when there is nobody in the room and turns itself off? How long do LED's REALLY last? Why would they ever "burn out". (For that matter, how come my florescents burn out?) Will the LED's last the 4600 hours or are they doomed to be as big a disappointment as the little curly expensive flourescent blulbs?

At this point, I think nobody really knows. I'm gonna have them installed in my reindeer's nose so that he can find his way home though. And my lady friend really likes the idea of mounting them under her nice long fingernails. And my son wants his carpet tattoos lit up from behind. But again, I digress.

I read about a fella who is making LED lighted keys for his "puter keyboard for use in the dark. He developed a sensitivity to the overhead buzzing lights in his office, and simply had them removed from his work station. Less headaches, more productivity. (Mind you, thats not news...the real news is that each key is a sort of dot matrix display which can be coded to read in cyrillic, hebrew,or scientific notation depending on how you set the switch on the right. The keyboard has an onboard computer.) Imagine all that office space with only a tenth of the overhead lighting! The mind boggles!