Can Robots Fix the Post Office?

Fix the dam problem.....instead of reducing service, first you should revise the dam union contract that alone would do wonders. It's ridiculous, no way in hell can any company make any money with a contract like that.

p911

The problem isn't the union contract and their not there to make a profit.

No but it would cut the loses. Each month jobs are posted, and the laborer can sign up for a jub, such they where doing sorting and switch to unloading the next month. When no trucks are in and they need help sorting (old job, that worker will get a premium, time and a 1/4, even though he just did that. but that is not his job this month.

The USPS is not a business, congress does dictate to it, working hours for instance going from a 6 day work delivery to a 5 day needs an act of congress

The wages paid to USPS postal employees are around the same as those paid to any of the other private companies.

No they are not, When a postal worker is trained to do 2, 3 or 4 jobs. but they are signed up for one job, when they work at any different job other that what they are signed up for (because there is not enough work, on the job they are signed up for), they receive a premium, even though the company paid for their training for all their tasks. (They are not allowed to do a task they are not trained for.)

See what it would cost you to have them deliver a letter to some ranch house in Montana's mail box. Won't be 44 cents.

What are you talking about, Of course not....and USPS is losing money on that, USPS loss last year was 4.7 billion dollars, why, because it takes an act of congress to increase it.

Heck on packages FedEx does the deliveries for them..not as strong as a contract..or didn't you know that. And you know good as well that USPS would not subcontract to a non union delivery.

p911

Yes jobs are posted through out the postal system. A letter carrier in New York can summit on a posting for a job in L.A. The job posting is filled on the criteria of seniority.

Letter carrier and mail clerk are of the same pay scale. Mail handler is of one lower. There are some jobs with in those fields that have special designations that are a pay grade higher. One is the T6 Carrier he has to fill in for the other carriers on their day off. So he need to be able to sort and carry the mail for 5 different routes.

If ask to fill in for a vacant position you get the pay scale of that position. If the pay scale is less you get the pay scale of the position in which you bid on and hold. The 2, 3, or 4 jobs the postal worker has been trained for each a different job has been given a pay scale. When working in one of them he gets that pay scale.

The USPS uses many private means to transport the mail. Many of the air lines, UPS and FEDX planes carry the mail. Trains carry mail.

As far as FEDX delivering the packages. If it is less costly to have it done that way why not. These companies are in the business to deliver packages not letter mail.

The issue that is the problem that you have made a statement of many times is of US congress's control. They do not let it run as a business to make profit should. Their control limits what USPS can do as far as cutting cost. Most of with is political gain for Congressmen and their constituents

T6 means nothing to anybody outside the postal service and it means nothing to me.

I am not talking about mail carriers or clerks. I am talking about inside the hubs and Sortation of mail.

Letter carrier and mail clerk are of the same pay scale.

If that were true, there would not be much of a problem

For that is not true at the hub. If you sign up for a job and you are doing another one because there is not enough work you receive a premium because you are not doing the job you signed up for. As I said earlier, doing Sortation instead of dock work. And if there is dock work and they give it to someone Else you get another preium on top of that.

As I understand it, it comes down to poor managers at the postal service, that do a poor job of managing thier employees.

My girlfriend signed up to switched jobs from the hub to one of the post offices, she was to go into training for it this month but the person that does the training is on vacation so till the end of the month she gets a premium because she signed up for a job but because they can't get her training she can't transfer till the end of the month until then her boss which just transfered out told her she'll get the preium, because he gave his wife a premium on a simuliar matter.

Unless like I said earlier, this is being mis and poor management, which is still an employee issue.

And your talking about routes last week the mail was delieverd late, I asked my girlfriend about this, and they said they are doing a study which they do once a year on how long it takes and make adjustments, so that is why its late.....well if they would have followed them the week before(or after). lThey would have added to thier routes. This is intentional.

No the USPS should start buckling down, but the union is very hard to fight. Because the union protects these antics.

Your girl friend bid on a job position and she got it. Because the position is of a higher pay scale that is what she is now being paid. Whether she has been trained or not the job is hers.

Yes at the request of the manager a route examiner can be asked to walk a route with the carrier every day for a week. Sometimes it done for route adjustments a lot times its done for other reasons. During that the carrier will walk to every house as if he has mail for it whether he does or not. He will also walk it on the sidewalks no short cuts. He is not suppose to cut across peoples lawns, hop railings between row homes or any other short cuts. Usually the carrier will walk it at a slower pace then normal to drag it out. In most cases he is justified in doing this. In that management in their desire to increase his work load do not give him a fair test. All time sensitive 2nd and 3rd class mail was dumped on him the week before. All he will be carrying is the first class mail. Look in your mail box how much is junk mail and how much is first class o a daily bases?

The union has little to do with it. Management is more of the problem. If the level of a manager is dependent on the number of employee he manages. Would you want to remove employees from your work force.

Both my father and brother have retired from the USPS. Both started from the labor force and became managers. Both were push from one job to the next because they could solve problems. My brother especially, the local Post Master did not like explaining to the big wigs in DC why all the branch offices operated in the red but one. So they would move him before the books got out the red. How did he do it. He was shop steward for 10 years he new the union regs and how to make the work for him.

That was one reason they made him a manager as shop steward he was costing them too much money. My brother remove quite a few employees that didn't want to do their job. Sometime upper management stepped in and stop it. He was force to retire. Managers don't write up managers its just not done. But it was done to him. He was written up for mail left on the dock overnight of the branch he was the letter of record being the manager of. When in fact he had been promoted to another larger branch and had been detail to even another branch to run it.

USPS does not want good managers it wants politicians. Because that's what its being run by.

Because the position is of a higher pay scale that is what she is now being paid.

No, thier are new posting each month, and since the USPS believes in cross trianing, she get a job for a number of reasons, one of it because of the start time, yes you get a premium for working off shifts.

Whether she has been trained or not the job is hers.

Her new job is basically a clerk now, even thou she did it 6-7 years ago, she needs retraining (as per either union or USPS).

Yes at the request of the manager a route examiner can be asked to walk a route with the carrier every day for a week.

No, These carriers have motorized vehicles, and they do follow the route,

and the reason my girlfriend said they are late, is because of the assessment, not when you are being asset, there are times where it would take longer, but 2-3 hours?

but you did point out about making every stop whether there is mail or not, for a true assesment. in this residential, they are (4) boxes per stop.

interesting...All he will be carrying is the first class mail. Look in your mail box how much is junk mail and how much is first class o a daily bases?

The reason of the huge losses, was because of the cutback in junk mail due to the econmy. (less junk mail.)

But the managment of the assets is still alot to be desired, and the biggest room there is room for improvement

Job postings change daily. In a organization that size some one is retiring or resigning daily. A lot of the jobs are posted nation wide.

A clerk's job can vary from filing mail in a main post office to waiting on customers at a branch. The job functions are different and a lot can change in 6 to 7 years. Especially in the jobs that handles stamps and money.

Even on motorized route the carrier soon learns short cuts. On his own he may have found a faster way. How the mail is delivered from house to house is laid out for him by some one else even before he bid on the position. But during the route inspection he has to go by the book and do it how it was routed. Then there is safety issues that during the normal work week may be being ignored. If he puts the vehicle in drive to move two feet to the next mail box he is required to close the door if it is necessary to open it to place the mail in the box. Speed limits obeyed completely. If the vehicle does not have a passengers seat the inspector is following him around in another vehicle. This is how the USPS assess routes with someone watching you.

USPS has lost a lot of revenue with the economy and the use of the internet. Its has always been poorly managed. Money issues are starting to show how bad. Congress in allowing a stamp cost increase only gives USPS two to three years positive cash flow until they start losing money. Then they will go two to three years at a loss until they drain that surplus cash. Cost of fuel and lost revenue most likely ate it up fast.

They just had a round of earlier retirement butouts (I mean buyouts) last fall. The ones that took it were ones that were going to retire that summer they waited till fall and took that, and the ones that were going to retire anyways.

And mismanagement of labor, is one of the biggest reasons for going with automation, I didn't get a chance to look at the numbers the last time they upgraded with automation back in the 70's or 80's.

I am just going by what I experiences with union shops in industry that are struggling.

They either wither away with the union or break the union and thrive but very few can break the union, the company goes for years after breaking the union with the union filing suits against the company, most of which is crap or fictitious

At the time I heard it was nothing but a fiasco.

probally why its easier to go with automation. but it does come with its difficulties.

p911

^{can't figure out why my posts are marked off topic}

I believe when they made the USPS a some what private company. They did away with the old civil service employee status. Those that were hired before the change are still under that old contract. They had a pretty lucrative retirement package. They are trying to buy them to retire so they for one do away with the paper work. Plus every year pass retirement age they worked added a bonus to it. They did not pay social security tax they had their own plan set up that they paid into for retirement. Plus they accrued sick leave. My brother had 2 1/2 years when he retired(forced out) they had to pay for. They had put offers on the table for years after brother had pass the years of service need to retire.

Plus they have change the pay scale for new hires along the way. What once was a pay scale that increased every year for 7-8 yrs until it max out. Was changed to 12 to 15. The lower end of the scale was reduced for new hires. Those that had max out got an increase.

As far as automation I would hate to see what it would cost to mail a letter if they all had to be sorted by hand. What one the letter sorting machines can do in and hour would take couple hundred men a full shift. They can sort mail down to delivery sequence. So don't think the automation was a total mismanagement. They have been talking about put some in the large branches here to process the local mail and route it from these branches.

The postal union isn't going anywhere soon. They are dependent on the government to much and the government needs to honor it's commitment to move the mail. In discussions of a complete privatizing and selling it off. They can find buyers for the urban masses. But no one wants the rural routes that loose money. The government will still be obligated to see it delivered. The government also knows if they cut wages to far then personnel will leave for the private companies.

If it wasn't for the government, we never would have had the pony express.

Those that were hired before the change are still under that old contract.

Very true, some of the postmasters followed their own set of rules.

My girlfriend makes about $25.00/hour, one year she worked her 40 hours and about 10-15 hours overtime a week and that year made close to $100,000.00/year.

25.00 hr x 2080 hours a year = $52,000.00

$37.50 hr/OT x 780 OT/hours(15 OT x 52 weeks) = $29,250.00

$100,000.00 - $29,250.00 - $52,000.00 = $18,750.00 this is the premiums she made.

And another example of premium is this, when management tried to use seasonal help at $9.00-$15.00/hr to do a job before asking the USPS postal employee who is signed up for the job, (and the seasonal help did the job). the USPS employee just have to file a grievance against USPS, and USPS has to pay the USPS employee wage also .....for not working. She doesn't feel good about it, but its her right, its in her contract, and multiple that by again because shes not the only one that does it. Its in their contract.

And people defend this. Oh, try mailing a stamp to nowhere USA for 40+ cents.. That is why USPS is going automation. its easier that fighting the union. can you imagine, if the USPS were to run the company like a lean business model. Sure congress dictates to the USPS, and the union lobby dictates to congress.

interesting enough, this will probably be marked off topic like the rest of mine here.

the saying...look for the union label.....hell, the union label looks alot like a postage stamp.

p911

Here the postal management really get on managers for use of overtime.

The USPS all so pays a shift deferential that maybe the 18+K.

I worked that temp job back in the 70's. They pull from the list of people that took the test for hire. They did this to fill vacant positions do to reasons like vacations. Don't see how she can file a grievance for work hours if she is only guarantied 40 hrs and got them. The temp would have had to fill her position. I don't know if she has a grievance if an over time list was put forth and they filled the overtime hours with temps. The management position in this case is a Catch 22. Got a projected work load during the busy season. Need people to move the mail and can't depend on enough of the work force to want to move it by placing their name on the overtime list. So we bring in help on a temporary basis.

Unions at one time did have their purpose. I agree in the private sector today they just run companies in to the ground. One of the reason that most manufacturing has left the country. As far as what a union label looks like don't know. When ever I see a union rep coming I run. Most today are just looking to fill their pockets with my hard earned money. Make promises that they can't keep. If you say it looks like a postage stamp I'll take your word for it.

I don't know if she has a grievance if an over time list was put forth and they filled the overtime hours with temps. The management position in this case is a Catch 22. Got a projected work load during the busy season.

And the difference is if overtime is needed it goes to the union postal worker. not to the lower paid non-union worker, and if it did, the Postal service basically not only has to pay the non union worker for doing the job, but the union worker who didn't do it, because the union work is supposed to be given the first chance.

the contract is so complicated its hard for HR and payroll to keep track of it, and when it is complicated it works to the employee's benefit.

Unions at one time did have their purpose. I agree in the private sector today they just run companies in to the ground. One of the reason that most manufacturing has left the country.

They had their place, since the eighties they are not looking at the employee but the health (numbers of union members) of the union locals.

IMO, That is why USPS want automation., its complicated as hell, but its easier then dealing with the labor contracts.

If you are say that the regular employee whom name was on the overtime list was looked over to give the overtime to a temp employee then the do have a grievance. I thought you were saying that they filled the overtime with temps working their normal 40 hours.

Yes thats what I am saying, and it happens often,

Sure, I can see paying a person at $9.00-$15.00/hour to do the same quality job as a person that gets 25.00 an hour. fiscally business wise.

But when that happens they end up having to pay (2) people

One: the $9.00 to $15.00 hour person that actually did the work

and

Two: the $25.00 an hour person that should have gotten the first choice by labor contract. She ended up getting paid for it by being at home, she was not given the choice to decline.

p911

A lot of managerial abuse goes on in the USPO. Most of it hanky panky with subordinates. That get swept under the rug because others are doing it. Maybe some of the cases.

That get swept under the rug because others are doing it.

That is the problem, when its starts, it sets a presidence and is near impossible to stop. When tried to break it, employee's cry foul because so and so got it.

Yes but isn't that any in any business not just the USPS. Goes on until some new executive in charge decides to clean it up. That won't happen in the USPS because the are not there to make a profit. Those appointed to the board of directors by congress are there to direct not see it function like a company for profit. So there is no incentive as if it was a company for profit. They get paid win or lose.

Those appointed to the board of directors by congress are there to direct not see it function like a company for profit. So there is no incentive as if it was a company for profit. They get paid win or lose.

And that incentive (lack of) trickles down the ranks.

Sure does to some extent. There are some still there that try to do their best. Hard when management above them under mines good work. usually just end up going with the flow.

here is another one that just happened to my girlfriend.

Last night they put a person in the cage (watch valuables) that had less experience that her, but in the small craft (craft that is same pay rate that is the issue not job. I was using the wrong terminology), And because they did not give it to her, she is eligible for double time last night. This is what I was talking about premiums.

Its management and labor contracts.

I worked at a non-union shipyard. They would have laugh it this, but if offered still would have taken it. Its legal, but bad business. Would the union step up to the plate about it and make concessions. Only if the union livelihood depended on it. No they are pretty quiet.

p911

Many of the air lines, UPS and FEDX planes carry the mail.

Very, very little mail goes by air most overnight and 2 or 3 day delivery mail goes by truck to the airport and is transfered to over the road trucks.

Overnight from Los Angeles to Omaha,NE - Miami, FL to Chicago, IL or to Kansas City, MO or to Boston, MA or Dallas, TX to Billings, MT goes by truck; to give perspective.

Not only has the union made present costs unbearable, they protect the slackers, generate more slackers and legacy costs are thru the roof!

I personally know people that retired from the post office in their early to mid 50's with a pay check and benefits for life!!!

Does the government pay for this, yes. What this really means is the poor idiots (thats me) that work for a living pay for this with tax money.

So join the Post Office, I'm sure they would take you.

In order to recieve the benefits they still had to put in 35 years.

The problem I've had is the rude, impatient employees (not all of them, but too many) who are so rigid and hidebound by all the arcane rules, some I suspect don't exist, that service is mediocre at best.

Many of them do a good job, but too many need to find something else to do.

There is little effort to think outside the box in too many instances.

Where I grew up, it was pretty common to open your magazine and cake crumbs would fall out. It was a joke to the locals, but we got the mail.

I have no problem with our mail couriers. They are always friendly and do their job in a timely manor. If I'm out with my kid and dogs he gives her Lolly-pop and the dogs biscuits.

As far as robots running the show. About the only area they would be needed is in sorting. It's not like they're going to be driving around or at the post office taking care of packages.

I think the biggest problem to this financial situation is that most everyone does electronic mail. We e-mail now instead of letters, we pay bills on-line, we order things on line instead of mailing returns, etc. You have a major drop in the buying of stamp yet they still have to cover every house.

Judging by the demeanor at my local post office window I thought that they WERE already using robots.

Maybe if the Robots have a 'CAN DO' attitude.

My daughter went into our US Post Office to ask if they could print postage on 50 - 100 post cards for her graduation announcements and the b*tch at the counter said,

"I'll sell you the stamps but I'm not putting them on for you!"

In private industry we would jump at an opportunity to make a customer happy, especially during hard times.

Personally I would rather see UPS, Fed-Ex and other private firms take over mail delivery and abolish Government run deliveries. They would be profitable and we wouldn't have to subsidize them.

How big is your post office? Ours is relatively small so no they would not and more then likely couldn't print stamp bulk mail? Thats why must people do it themselves. Besides it's not that hard buy a couple books or a roll of self adhesive stamps and place them on the post card then off to the mail box. Heck now you don't even have to go to the PO for stamps. We get ours at our local grocery store as we check out.

I highly doubt UPS or Fed-ex would take normal mail because it's not profitable. I could just see little Fed-ex, UPS, and DHL jeeps driving around to every house, apartment and condo out there 5-6 times a week and still making a profit.

How about stop local drop offs all together and make everyone have a PO Box? That would save money.

How about stop local drop offs all together and make everyone have a PO Box?

We do it that way...and we like fine.

You may get it that way, I used to get it when I lived out in the boonies if North Central PA and I thought it was great. A good percentage of mail is delivered to people. I'm willing to bet 80% in my area of Eastern PA which includes Philly gets it delivered ~ 8 million individuals homes, apartments, condo, mobile homes, etc. Just imagine if that was reduced to 50% or 40% how much that would save. Decrease in employees, decrease in vehicles, decrease in fuel consumption, etc.

But wait then people would complain that they aren't getting their mail placed at there feet, or that they have to drive all the way over to the PO, or that they may have to wait for a parking spot, or that they would have to put stamps on their own letters, etc..

The biggest problem here is that the public is a bunch of cry babies. I what it now!!!

I agree that every one would complain about it. Then again having every one coming to pick up their mail at a branch PO has it's problems too. Are the lots big enough to handle the traffic and parking? Are the buildings big enough to put boxes in for every customer?May have a reduction in the carrier work force but you will need more clerks. Isn't it less of a stain on fuel demand to have one person driving from home to home delivering the mail. Then everyone driving to the post office to pick it up.

Cluster boxes would be better set to service a neighborhood. New housing is already starting to see them. Just the USPS doesn't want to rock the boat in the older neighborhoods and have local congress men on their backs to appease the voters.

They may have to expand a building it could even be open to the outside, but I'm sure that's cheaper then having all those delivery vehicles and personnel around.

Why would the need more clerks. The ones they have already are dividing them up by carrier route. I'm sure its easier to set-up bins for each PO Box # then slip them in the right box.

We aren't talking about the gas we're using, we're talking about saying money for the PO so our wear and tear is a mute point.

Cluster boxes would work to an extent you still need carriers and vehicles.

Cluster boxes would be better set to service a neighborhood. New housing is already starting to see them. Just the USPS doesn't want to rock the boat in the older neighborhoods and have local congress men on their backs to appease the voters

Then work the cluster boxes into a national health plan. I grew up in a rural area. The walk to the mailbox was longer than a city block, and didn't think nothing of it.

By dad at 85 still gets the mail this way..........unless one of the kids are home, and thats only when he comes in and forgets to pick it up.

My daughter went into our US Post Office to ask if they could print postage on 50 - 100 post cards for her graduation announcements and the b*tch at the counter said,

"I'll sell you the stamps but I'm not putting them on for you!"

Your daughter's time is too valuable to do it herself but not enough to pay someone eh?

What did they say at Kinko's?

You've missed the point. It was a simple question about printing postage which WE can't do without a special Pitney Bowes machine but maybe the Post Office could. Obviously we know we can buy stamps or order the post cards with postage already printed at an elevated cost. It wasn't wrong to research all the options. The point was the condescending attitude by the Postal worker. Do you understand now?

It is same situation in any other countries too. Here in India also P.Os are facing same problems.But our P.Os are are functioning like small bank branches. People in small towns open saving accounts, invest money in various Govt. sponsored schemes. They also deliver money for Western Union, have Life Insurances service only for Govt. employees.They sell financial products like Mutual Funds offered by many Banks etc. These additional services have reduced their operating losses.