Packaging & Labeling Blog

Packaging & Labeling

The Packaging & Labeling Blog is the place for conversation and discussion about Automation & Control; Rigid & Flexible Containers; Labeling & Coding; Packing Machinery as used in the packaging industry. Here, you'll find everything from application ideas, to news and industry trends, to hot topics and cutting edge innovations.

Previous in Blog: Are Electric Cars Commercially Viable?   Next in Blog: Computer Chips on Recycle Bins?
Close
Close
Close
19 comments
Rate Comments: Nested

What Good is Having a Patent?

Posted September 11, 2010 8:25 AM

It can cost a lot of money to obtain a patent, and even more to maintain it. But on its own, a patent has little value unless the inventor can protect it. Large companies with big legal departments have no problem doing this but the small- and medium-sized industries can have their resources depleted defending a patent. Besides, filing for the patent makes the new idea available to everyone, so imitations in some cases are easily made. What can be done to help small businesses protect their intellectual property?

The preceding article is a "sneak peek" from Packaging & Labeling, a newsletter from GlobalSpec. To stay up-to-date and informed on industry trends, products, and technologies, subscribe to Packaging & Labeling today.

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tamilnadu, India
Posts: 836
Good Answers: 42
#1

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/11/2010 10:02 AM

Whether big or small firms, patent protection is the only way out to claim your ownership of the invention. Any inventor should be having a motive behind his hard made invention. The first step is to atLeast to apply for a patent. Indigenous patent applications should not be costing more and even PCT filing for that matter. Foreign patenting is of course is costly. There is no way out, if it needs international protection in designated countries, where there exists a market potential.

SME world bank supports, local innovator support, international competitions are plenty.

If the patent is filed on individual basis, then costs can be reduced.

Plenty of Angel inventors and Venture Capital firms are also available, that the inventor has to choose about.

Other important fact is the selling of patent rights or licensing, which can be done by confidential Non Disclosure Agreement.

The other option which needs to be implemented is a common global patent, for which efforts on the way it seems.

Exploitation choice and avenues are plenty for an inventor, making the right deal for the right returns.

So never miss a patent application process, the journey may be painful, but just live with it

__________________
Nature is so graceful and naked. Human possession is ridiculous.
Reply
Guru
Panama - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Panama
Posts: 4273
Good Answers: 213
#2

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/11/2010 11:30 PM

My solution, after some rather frustrating experiences, was to abandon the patent process all together. My ideas are maintained as secrets, and I am sure I have enough ideas on the back burner so that I can stay ahead of anyone who wants to reverse-engineer my systems. Most products today have a pretty short life-cycle- if someone is copying you, then your product most likely has realized its most significant marketing growth already, and it is time to be thinking about a replacement product.

The only issue I have with the current patent regime is that someone could possibly block my use of independently-developed concepts...Other than protecting one's right to use one's own technology, a patent is pretty useless, unless one has very, very deep pockets.

Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#3
In reply to #2

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 12:17 AM

Cwarner -- I agree with you. If you can't afford to defend a patent why bother unless you really think you can sell it to someone else (which is not easy given the "not invented here" attitude of most large corporations.

I think for certain novel ideas the "poor man's patent", full public disclosure, is an approach that is some protection against one of the big guys suing you over infringement of their patent which they got because the Patent Office did their all to common slipshod job of awarding more than one patent to the same invention. This probably makes sense if your invention is obvious from an examination of the product or service you are selling. This is especially the situation with novel workman's tools or kitchen gadgets where a limited "start up" sales effort with little advertising or public sales promotion may catch the notice of the likes of Harbor Freight, Sears or Snap-On or just be an idea whose time had come.

If it isn't obvious, like the invention of a fellow I know, that cannot be easily determined by even a careful examination of his product, then secrecy is the answer. So this guy keeps it a deep trade secret, like the formula for Coca Cola, and has carved out a profitable niche business. But his business is still pretty small and well off the radar screen of his larger potential competitors. It could well be discovered by a large corporation with deep technical resources.

Ed Weldon

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 930
Good Answers: 31
#4

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 7:01 AM

There are or were companies that all they do is fight patent infringements and take 40% of any award. One was listed on stock exchange some years ago I know since I had stock in it. Do an internet search some may still be around seems like a big business.

__________________
The fine line between cuddling and holding one down to prevent escape must be learned
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#7
In reply to #4

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 11:16 AM

I believe that the root of this problem in the USA, at least, is the gradual deterioration of the US Patent Office from lack of funding and general inattention of the leadership. Perhaps there is also some special interest influence involved. Certainly the level of competence required of today's patent examiners is a much higher order due to the increasing technical complexity of today's inventions.

Ed Weldon

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tulare, CA
Posts: 1783
Good Answers: 35
#17
In reply to #7

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/13/2010 10:21 AM

Protecting your patents has always been an issue since the idea of patenting patents was patented.

Samual Morse didn't enforce his patents and telegraph companies started popping up everywhere. You let one get away and you loose the right to enforce it on anyone else.

Bell Telephone saw what happened to Morse and enforced their patents diligently and it took 20 years after the telephone was invented before it could be sold to the regular people after the patent expired.

Standard Oil did a good job enforcing its patents until oil was discovered in Texas and Texas was too far away to enforce a patent on them effectively so other oil companies started springing up.

Steve Jobs took the right steps and brought his idea of personal computers to IBM's attention and IBM laughed him out of the meeting room. Steve Jobs showed them.

When someone tries to sell a company their idea, the companies will reject it and not give support to it, then try to produce and sell it a couple years later, after they think the original notion has cooled down.

We manufacture a machine that picks up oranges and packs them in a box in the proper pattern for shipping. We had to wait for a patent on a machine created by Sunkist expired before we could jump on it and put ours into production. Ours is a complete different design but the function is the same. Ours is safer to use by the operators and is faster.

__________________
Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time but always enough time to do it over?
Reply
Guru
Panama - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Panama
Posts: 4273
Good Answers: 213
#10
In reply to #4

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 2:07 PM

The story of the history of the battle over the patent for the laser is a good example- by the time it was all sorted out, the original inventor owned only a very small percentage of the rights to the patent, while a corporation of patent lawyers owned the bulk of the rights. The original inventor sold off his rights to the corporation to finance the battle...

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 380
#5

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 10:08 AM

Should the copiers pay you the profits they got using your invention without permission? Is it bad or good?.-

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I'm outa here
Posts: 1924
Good Answers: 196
#6
In reply to #5

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 11:08 AM

It's good that they pay you for using your invention. But it is not general human nature to pay voluntarily.

A just legal system will force the payment; but only after you have proven your case and the copiers have had an opportunity for their side to be heard. In advanced nations this usually means an expensive legal procedure or at least the threat of one. Therein lies the quandary.

The rich and powerful succeed by the force of their resources rather than the legitmacy of their claims. This is the historic nature of human existance. Best to remain beyond their sight.

Ed Weldon

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 380
#18
In reply to #6

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/13/2010 3:33 PM

Even when i agree with your comments mostly,i'd be humanity sidepart:Did you see right on this forum at least, how ready are participants to answer and help to anybody else without any reward in change (may be at most a "GA" be enough) ? May be a good sample for this is the amazing number of free programs developed by people just in change of what?Glory? (Is it so wrong anyway?)Was so smart people gave away a half of their fortune (recently)discovering so rich is not so happy?Please dont take this as a "naif" comment, just i wonder,if we were released of our main purpose (keep alives ourselves and our people),the complete power whats in the brain of people would be released with unexpected consequences and laws,years of lost human time studying it,feeding lawyers politicians policy to make it works and so on dissappears...

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
4
Guru
Panama - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Panama
Posts: 4273
Good Answers: 213
#11
In reply to #5

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 2:31 PM

It makes no difference to me what so ever if someone makes a profit off my ideas. What matters is that I can support myself with my ideas. I realize that my position on this is contrary to conventional thought...

I have on occasion shared information with others with no claim whatsoever to rights- no GPL, no Commons copyright, nothing. The statement attached is something to the effect, "This information is being provided to you with no encumbrances or claims to copyright whatsoever. You are free to use the information in any manner you see fit. It would be appreciated if you acknowledge the source, should you find this information of value." The truth of the matter is that, in most cases, I have already received renumeration for the subject information, and have assured myself that the entity originally financing my efforts does not wish to maintain rights to the information...

When I was actually manufacturing components, I had developed three processes that were critical to a component- at the time, no one could match the performance specifications we were achieving. It was a very competitive marketplace, and there was pressure on me by interested parties to patent the processes. There were also US military interests in learning how I did what I did, and I had had serious issues previously over patents of interest to the US military. I maintained the processes as an "industrial secret" (occasionally providing "tidbits" about the critical parameters in the processes to my competitors- I wanted to see the market explode, and the best road to that was to insure that there were multiple sources of critical components). By maintaining the processes as industrial secrets, I was able to control how the information about the processes was spread, whereas, had I patented the ideas, they would essentially have been available to anyone to copy, whether I felt I was entitled to royalties or not...

The truth of the matter is that, for the critical processes described above, they did not involve any fundamental new science- they were developed over an extended period by me actually sitting down at a machine and operating it to learn first hand what the critical parameters were, then designing modifications to the machines to meet the criteria. A lot of hard work went in to it- but I got my rewards, and I am sure a patent would not have made all that much difference.

I am quite sure that there are many out there with different value systems and different expectations of appropriate rewards than my own, and I do not expect the majority to agree with my approach. It works for me.

Good ideas are very, very common, and very seldom unique. What is unique is execution- the ability and understanding required to take the ideas to a viable business model...

Reply Good Answer (Score 4)
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - New Member Australia - Member - Torn and breading Engineering Fields - Nanoengineering - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Magnetic Island, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 3721
Good Answers: 74
#13
In reply to #11

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 4:37 PM

Panamations of the universe unite.

I had a bit of a time constraint on me over the last days and found your post and the time to read it. Very down to earth and well written. You want me to ad anything? I couldn't if I tried. Well, one little bit from recent own experience maybe:

To have an invention and get it to market readiness one needs certification, sometimes, of all kinds of things. Environmental impact study, Work place health and safety, general acceptance of materials and other parts as suitable for the purpose, life cycle studies and on an on. Still no patent in sight.

This process has taken years to get to the stage it is at now. If anyone would imitate what my little beauty does they would need to do the same. Government approved certification. It would not be allowed on the market unless approved. The cost of this is comparable to an international patent but is money well spent.

That the certifying institution (strategic alliance) is now part of the team is not important. Share dilution was always on the cards. What is important is that it will take a couple of years for any competitor to do the same and that years after they reverse engineered the parts they will have to do the same. Simplifying what I have come up with might just be found in the "too hard basket".

By that time we have established a brand name and have an organization that will be vigorously defending any new comers, thieves, we will be home and hosed. Next project, yes please. They would be dobbed in by the franchisees making a living out of the system. The government has a duty of care, you know. Patent attorney? What patent attorney?

Looking forward to meeting you one day Mate. Our world seems part of the oyster bed. Eff the sharks! Chris said recently; "If you swim with sharks don't behave like food". I've still got a grin on my face.

Symbiotic relationships are the answer. I painted this nearly 20 years ago and only now do I understand the significance. Note the shark in the back ground.

Just baiting, Ky.

__________________
The Twain Has Met
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: kentucky
Posts: 236
Good Answers: 7
#8

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 11:44 AM

My little woodgas camp stove bio-burner at www.aaalogging.com will probably go into small scale sales and production in late fall or early winter.

It differs from other woodgas camp stoves on the market in that it is self aspirated, needs no fan to work.

I am quite poor, can barely buy new parts for the units to be sold, etc.

I am not filing a patent for this, as woodgas tech is pretty old anyway.

I can not afford even a provisional patent at this time, so they are going to market anyway, because lots of people want one already.

This way china at least has to BUY one to back engeneer it, and i dont ship to china,lol.

When you patent somthing, suddenly all your "secrets" are available worldwide to everyone.

Plans for the bio-burner will also be sold, but probably with a confidentiality agreement, and ,of course, copywrited.

__________________
"god gave us fuel, greed gave us gas"
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 930
Good Answers: 31
#9

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 11:57 AM

In addition to my previous answer you can also use an (Industrial Design) some protection and for much lower cost. At least it shows your design according to date and that establishes some precedence. Take a look at industrial design and copy write that identifies the appearance.

__________________
The fine line between cuddling and holding one down to prevent escape must be learned
Reply
Guru
Panama - Member - New Member Hobbies - CNC - New Member Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Panama
Posts: 4273
Good Answers: 213
#12
In reply to #9

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 2:35 PM

A very, very important protection is having copious dated notes in securely bound notebooks to demonstrate that you have established your concepts independently and have claim to "prior art", should anyone care to challenge your right to use your own ideas in a business...

Reply
2
Participant

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4
Good Answers: 1
#14
In reply to #12

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/12/2010 9:35 PM

Unless you have tons of money to defend your patent should the need arise, it may just be a waste of your money. There is a huge percentage of granted patent applications that commercial products were never produced for.

Unless you have some world changing revolutionary technology to protect, I would focus your efforts on building the best possible product, at the best possible price and bring it to market. If the copycats can't improve upon your design or offer a better price, they'll take their efforts elsewhere.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Izmir, Turkey
Posts: 2142
Good Answers: 31
#16
In reply to #14

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/13/2010 9:56 AM

Huge percentage as in 99% plus!

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 303
Good Answers: 5
#15

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/13/2010 9:21 AM

What can be done to help small businesses protect their intellectual property?

Sell it to a BIG business...

__________________
"I had not anticipated that the work would present any great difficulites" SHACKLETON
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tulare, CA
Posts: 1783
Good Answers: 35
#19
In reply to #15

Re: What Good is Having a Patent?

09/13/2010 5:15 PM

Small businesses have some levarage to be able to do that. The individual is at a disadvantage in the they have to get someone to take a venture with them.

__________________
Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time but always enough time to do it over?
Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 19 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

ageniusforhire (1); cwarner7_11 (4); Ed Weldon (3); ferquiza (2); garagedetailer (1); Janissaries (2); ky (1); NiCrMoNoMore (1); roy hammy (2); russ123 (1); s.udhayamarthandan (1)

Previous in Blog: Are Electric Cars Commercially Viable?   Next in Blog: Computer Chips on Recycle Bins?

Advertisement