A Crop Sprouts Without Soil or Sunshine

Ok...my problem with this is Energy in = energy out minus loss.

I only breezed through the article, but as I see it, you are providing light for the plants with LEDs and nutrients through a mist, the plants can only use the energy they absorb from the nutrients and light provided, there will have to be a tremendous loss in energy during the production right?

Drew

The entire vertical farming is true green fuzzy headed stuff along with a few hucksters trying to market it.

As you pointed out farming in the dark will not be cost effective (except for mushrooms).

Russ

I think I'll bite on the whole vertical farming concept. I agree with your energy in = Energy out - loss, but i would also want to see information on possible pounds of food per acre and the yield of each harvest. I think that it will be a more energy intensive way to farm, but there can be great benefits in land usage and control.

I work at a wastewater treatment facility and i see this as the same concept. It is something that nature already does on its own, but we can use energy to create ideal conditions to make the growing (treatment) process much faster.

But that is solely my opinion.

~Dan

It might also be a better place to send the effluent from a wastewater treatment plant.

I am pondering how they are going to keep the nutrients in the water from plugging the bedding used. I guess they could use drip irrigation implanted in the bedding to reduce that concern. Also, I ponder if they will control the enclose the building to protect the plants from the urban ozone which will damage the plants and reduce the yield.

I've liked this concept ever since I saw it at Epcot in the 70's. You increase yields, reduce water waste and have a shorter production time without pesticides and fertilizer contamination common in farming fields. The more control you have, the more consistent and productive your crop will be. The increased cost of energy should be thwarted by the quality and quantity and the reduced transportation costs and faster delivery time will allow for fresher produce with a longer shelf life. The use of a misting system beneath the cloth bed mists the water, oxygen and nutrients on the roots and as long is you keep misting you don't have clogging. You should grow in enclosed buildings to control the air quality and insure predictable results. I am more interested in the entire process being powered by alternative energy so that it can be used off grid. Gary

Thanks for your opinion Russ! I suppose you can't grow tomatoes upside down either. Gary

65 years of observations with the first 20 on a farm. Later on I was into the nursery business for a number of years before I decided to to something where there was more money.

The past three years I have spent considerable time on green topics and learning the errors in the 'true green' thought process - as well as the errors of the opposite side for that matter.

Each of the points I commented on such as transportation, pesticides or fertilizer is quite well documented in many places if you look. Don't go to the 'true green' sites looking for accurate information on agriculture - there is a little but it is almost impossible to separate it out from the BS.

Russ

I can appreciate your experiences. You keep misquoting me regarding fertilizer. I made reference to contamination by field fertilizers such as the spinach salmonella problems of a few years back followed by tomatoes and jalapenos and most recently eggs. Your experience with agriculture ends at the greenhouse. If this technology is not profitable, no one would invest in it. I personally am studying this concept to adapt it to an aquaculture application. I would encourage you to think about the entire concept as it is being applied; to grow fresh, local vegetables in urban areas. I doubt it would be profitable (at the current time) as a replacement for field farming, however, in the future it may well be. Gary

Local growing is meaningless - grow where it is most economical and effective as transportation costs are so low.

Something like 90% of crops grown are not at all practical for local growing - many fruits, grains, corn etc.

I responded to what you typed about fertilizer - write what you mean. If you want to point out the salmonella problem then just say so. Contamination with chemicals is much more of a big deal in a green house or hydroponic house - that is all these are with the additional levels and artificial lighting.

No one is investing in this high rise technology on a commercial scale. For a school it is fine. I have seen where people are hyping the concept and trying to sell it.

A good blogger about agriculture - try Steve Savage - he posts at http://redgreenandblue.org/

Again, you are missing the point. In many urban areas there are vacant warehouses that could be leased dirt cheap. An indoor growing system could be utilized to grow delicate greens for restaurants and have a ROI. Who cares what it costs to ship an avocado from California. This is about solving some urban blight with small, efficient growing rooms. I quote from my post "fertilizer contamination" not without fertilizer! As I am wrong on most of the other points, in your opinion, at least you could concede that one and stop using your tunnel vision to shred my post. I am not trying to sell anything. My opinion stands. I think if you can control; temp, light, water, nutrition and air quality you can grow a superior product in a shorter time without pesticides and despite the cheap cost of shipping, save time in providing the freshest greens to restaurants that were cut this morning, not yesterday. No more wimpy lettuce, Yea! Gary

For a different twist on this sort of thing, check out T. Galen Heironymous experiment:

"In particular, he had experimented with growing plants in complete darkness with only a copper wire to the outdoors to conduct energy from the sun. A full account of this experiment in Hieronymus' own words appears in numerous online sites dedicated to his research."

For further elucidation see this. (Don't knock 'til you've tried, as the saying goes.)

"Sometimes scientists set out to disprove results they deem impossible only to find it is a lack of knowledge which makes it seem impossible." - Anonymous