There's nothing wrong with using ethanol in older engines. The problem is of made lead - or lack thereof. The lead oxide that was produced during combustion helped reduce wear on the valve seats, especially when the metal wasn't case hardened.

Do a little research yourself. What are you stating? Is it your position that ethanol is not a problem and you want us to prove you false? If that is your claim, you are the one that needs to prove that it isn't true.

However, if you are looking for evidence to support or debunk that claim yourself, try:

Start with the marine and boasting industry.

How about lawn service? Stores down here are now selling additives to try to combat the issues with ethanol in gas.

What is the impact to the food supply here and abroad?

Should be plenty of material for research. Then draw your own conclusions on how effective it is.

I'm in the boasting industry.

I don't have any specifics, but last week I sold my generator to a Nascar racing team. I was talking with the guy they sent down to pick it up, and apparently it's been mandated that Nascar use ethanol or part ethanol fuel in all race cars. He told me they have drums of the old fuel sitting around that they can't use.

I don't know how this translates over to our vehicles, but he said this new law and fuel is wreaking havoc with race cars. I know my 86 GMC pickup doesn't like it........rough running, dieseling, etc.

That's just politics in action.

Just how much fuel does NASCAR consume compared to the rest of the driving public?

I agree. It surprised me. And once again, it's the law! It's probably not a huge deal for us, but these engines have been built to burn a specific fuel..............the new law won't even allow them to use up the existing fuel that they have, they have to use the ethanol mix. Insanity in action! They've got until next season to figure out how to make it work.

In Australia the V8 supercar series has been racing for the last year with a 10% ethanol blended fuel, it is not such a big deal hasnt affected top speed or acceleration lap records were brocken again this season

Yeah, I'm sure Nascar will be able to deal with it, but at some point, it's the principle of the thing.

Hell, even Al Gore said ethanol was a bad idea, and he would never lie or distort the truth.

It all comes down to who you ask and what their bias is against or for it.

In some engines its not so good. Especially in older carburetted engines that are not set up for high levels of ethanol in their fuel. Same with many newer vehicles that are not programed with a wide enough fuel range to compensate for having a higher level.

In others engines and vehicles its great but then they are designed to be more fuel friendly and forgiving to wide variations in what they burn. My 1999 Ford F250 Super duty with the Triton V10 runs surprisingly well on E85 even though its not rated for it.

I also have ran diesel engines with mixes of up to 35% E85 to 65% used oil with no engine problems or performance issues.

I like ethanol blend fuels and I use them with good results but I don't expect everyone else to do the same or get the same results with different vehicles and equipment than I have.

I see very little discussion of the fact that ethanol is hygroscopic- not something you want in a high-humidity environment...Normally, water won't mix with gasoline and settles out. With ethanol, the water stays in suspension, which, of course, should make the HHO folks happy, but could seriously reduce the efficacy of the engine for the rest of us.

I agree with the water problem. So far from all I have been able to discover, ethanol is only added at the terminal as the fuel is being loaded into a truck for delivery to the service stations. This prevents water absorption during pipeline transfer or storage, but I have seen many service stations with poor water prevention practices; some even have puddles that form over their tank manholes. I would actually feel better if the ethanol were added at the service station from a new tank system designed to prevent water contamination (but that would be cost prohibitive).

I have been out of the fuel transfer and storage industry for a few years but I do still ask friends in the business questions. Nobody has been able to tell me of any way of cheaply testing for water in blended ethanol gasoline. I would like to have a test strip I could use on a jar of fuel at a service station if I were worried about contamination.

Hey, who's putting gasoline in my ethanol? Yecch!

Now I gotta unload it on Stinky Pete....

The most important is that its better to ...drink alcohol that burn it in cars or trucks.

You've got the power, and you've got the money.

Well dstrohl, what you are stating is a bit confusing. The first part should read "You have the technology" and not the power, that comes second.

The second part is just wishful thinking. I read the whole article and could not find the hoped for link to the funds. Just trying to do the carrot dangling bit, are we?

Do you have the answers?

Yes! So what now? Do you expect me to publish my work here and attract brain blows. A bit of outsider scrutiny maybe? Would you like me to present years of theoretical development just because you would like it?

What is the aim of your very crude post? Were is the money? Were is the support team? I would be careful because if I can think of a working principle and using any fuel (not only E15) than maybe others can as well. (No, not like Das Energy folks). What are you going to do against the stampede of inventors that are in a similar position?

I detect boredom in your post and think that even replying to it will get me nowhere. It would take more than what you can understand to evaluate what I have thought of. As a matter of fact, I think that any of the educated participants in this thread would have a hard time understanding my proposed injection technology.

It would take some study to be able to follow my concept and I am not willing to go public, yet. Even if you would send me a NDA made in heaven I would not want to cooperate with you. It borders on childish what you are offering and sounds like you have not prepared for a solution but are only fishing in the dark and seeking cheap thrills. The line will snap before you land the darn thing.

As you will have noticed by now I am in quiet a predicament. Were do I go from here? Do I contact GM or BMW or Mercedes Benz. Toyota maybe or start with lawnmower engines?. Maybe Lockheed? Boeing? Do I go and seek assistance from a reputable university and end up dead before they decide to have the first part manufactured because the lack of .... ?????

I think I will just bide my time and wait until I can finance everything my self. I will only need 0.000 001% of what you have on offer. Please PM me and I will let you know of my bank details. Make sure you bring some scientific heavy weights with you so not to waste my time. You know, time is of the issue because the older I get the less tolerant I seem to become.

Well, what now? I am not waiting for a reply so take your time. I'll be here, always prepared, for anything and anyone.

You have given me the opportunity to sound off I am grateful for that. Had some tolerance just up my sleeve and like some others here I am in the boasting industry as well.

No, there is no major problem but I still know what to do about it.

Coming to think of it, no thanks, Ky.

I can not address ethanol in car and truck engines but I know for a fact that in the 1340 cc motorcycle engine that I have in my garage that 10% ethanol reduces gas mileage by about 40%. This is worse than what my friends lost but it is a real number. When I could get no alcohol gas I was averaging 45mpg. with 10% alcohol I got about 28mpg. Most of the guys I ride with went from about 45mpg to into the low to mid 30s. The lower energy density of adding alcohol really makes a difference in smaller engines. Incidentally that engine is not in use now. The new engine runs much better.

There seems to be no performance difference in 10% ethanol to my wifes Mazda Speed3. It does loose 2 miles per gallon.

My 1972 K model Honda 750 (all stock) will not idle and looses 25% or so of its' power. I believe it is a timing and jetting issue when tring to use that fuel. Whenever I drive it around here in Florida I but 90 octane without ethanol for it at boat service stations.

While the ethanol is a fuel and has replaced MTB in most fuels, it is also less efficeint per pound than good old gasoline.