License Plates for Bicycles?

When I was a kid we had license plates on bicycles (well, a few anyway). They were probably around 3" x 5", maybe a little smaller. If I recall correctly the top of the plate had a tab that had a hole in it. Typically the plate would be mounted under the round reflector assembly on the rear fender or attached to the lower rear of the seat frame/springs.

As I read this I have to add "no, I'm not kidding". I must admit it looks a little like some of the creative writing that is sometimes done when someone asks for us to do their homework.

I think I may have had a license plate on my first bike or two. I don't recall having them as a teenager. The price was probably around $2 and that would have been about the same purchasing power as $10 now. I don't recall renewing the plate, but since there was no enforcement of a plate law there was no incentive to renew the plate. The biggest reason people got the plates was so if the bike was lost of stolen the police would have the plate number and bike serial number on file and would be able to return the bike quickly and easily.

Now that I look back on this I suspect that the parents liked the idea of the registration of plates and serial numbers because they probably assumed that their irresponsible little children were at risk of running off and leaving the bike somewhere. And, like most kids, we had many hidden and out-of-the-way places to run off to.

San Jose, California just dropped its bicycle license program. With 22,000 bikes sold, only 9 new registrations had been logged. The police had never set up a database for tracking stolen bicycles.

Los Angeles and Seattle have killed their programs as well.

How on earth would people with existing bikes prove ownership? I have a bike and can't recall when or where it was bought. Perhaps if I had a $2,000 machine, I'd feel differently.

Let it die !

I am sure that willbe part of the registration, the serial number will be noted and some people will find out that they have paid money for a stolen bike......

Thats a good thing, returning stolen property to the correct owner.....a further plus point for the registration and licensing.....

The issue is New Jersey simply spends more money than it collects in revenue.

No worry. In the age of bailouts the New Jersey citizens will gladly dig deeper into their pockets. If not, I am sure the remaining 49 states will be willing to charge to the rescue.

You should probably narrow that list to the remain 10 or 15 States, the rest are in similar or worse condition than New Jersey.

Most places I know want to encourage physical fitness. The monetary cost and red tape involved in bicycle registration would discourage one method of much needed exercise.

I say require license plates on golf carts - plus wheel tax, power tax, arrogance tax, and number of hole tax. Maybe also an over par tax as well.

You have got to be kidding me. Any human powered transportation saves energy and makes no polution. Charging a license, or even licenceing at all is the stupiest thing I have ever heard of. This will step on efforts to use alternative energy transportation at grass root levels. How could someone like that even get into office?

If they need money for something is simple:ask it or force to, but is unbelievable somebody thinks any institution have the right take any kind of tax for using a bicycle.Is not important if it is expensive or not, simply they have not the right to.-

I cannot speak for the USA, but certainly here in Germany, bike riders are difficult to catch when something happens, they damage cars, ignore red lights, drive the wrong way on one way streets, hit pedestrians, drive over zebra crossings, drive without lights when its dark, missing reflectors, have bikes with bad brakes and generally unsafe suspension and tyres, cause accidents etc etc etc.....

Maybe US Citizens are better bike drivers than here (that would not be difficult either!!)

So I personally would be in full agreement with a license number, maybe then the bike riders will drive a little better.....$10 is nothing if you use your bike a lot......

Also, we should not forget that they use public roads for free at this time.....why should they?

By the way, I am on my bike every day of the year as long as there is no snow or ice......I would gladly pay the $10.......as "Scrooge" is not my middle name either!!! In spite of a Scottish ancestry!!

In the USA, personal taxes are relatively low anyway, under 30%.......try living in another country!! Germany is over 50% for example......

Look here for details:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

So simply stop complaining!!!! Either sell the bike or pay the tax!!!

The way I see it, it is just another tax in a state that is choking its citizens to death with taxes and regulations.

New York is doing the same. New York state has a negative population growth and New Jersey's growth rate is one of the slowest. This is due to taxation.

As the population goes down or as those that can afford it, leave, the burden falls on the remaining population. Unfortunately, those that remain, as a whole, are less able to stand higher taxes.

The problem is self feeding (i.e., a positive feedback loop). The rich simply pack up and leave, leaving the middle class and poor to pick up the tab.

Geographics plays a part. However, the crux of the problem is a government that is bleeding its constituents dry so they can provide an array of social programs that the people can not afford.

These programs sound good on paper and it gets votes, but unfortunately the voters have no clue where the money comes from when a new program of prosperity is proposed amidst a sea of political doublespeak.

In short, this is why so many states are running in the red (the same has happened in Europe). At this stage of affairs it is easier to simply tax the populace (particularly the rich) rather than explain to the people that we are broke and need to cut programs because there is no money.

Yes, people are happy to have the government make cuts as long as it doesn't impact the programs that hand out candy to them, so nothing gets better until the government is forced to print money then default. This is an example of the worst case of political malpractice and voters have just cheered it on.

I got to love the "Score 1 for Off Topic" rating I got.

The original post was a direct solicitation on the subject of taxation of bicycles in New Jersey, to which I gave my honest opinion.

I am only left to believe that someone feels that I was wrong and taxation is a good idea, but lacked an argument to back up their own differing opinion?

How do you think things like roads and infrastructure is paid for? Pixie dust?

I'm 110% for a registration or license fee for an bike on PA roads. Under PA and NJ a bike has right of way on all roads except limited excise. That means tax payers must pay for structures only traveled by riders. So why not make the riders who are using these structures and straining our coffers pay for it.

GA.

How have all of the greenies taken over?

And while we are at it, let's stop funding things like NASA until equality in all tax dollars spent is mandated.

I don't fly to the moon, have no desire to, and don't appreciate funding the jobs there that a 1st year student does, and they flub up.

Things like the wrong adhesives, poor preparation, and short sighted planning.

I'm with you john, but it would have to be stipulated that the money collected from bicycle riders be specifically used for bike lanes, etc., not dumped into the black hole of the general fund.

A good example of this would be, that being an avid angler, I don't mind a bit paying for a fishing license every year, even for salt water, which has recently been implemented. The reason being, is that the money collected is used primarily to monitor and maintain the fisheries in my state, fish stocking programs, etc. If government does the right thing, which is rare, people would be a lot more open to things like this.

Right now in PA and NJ if you get a driver's license, register your vehicle, or get a license plate for your vehicle the funds go directly to the maintenance of our roads not to the general funds.

It would be pretty simple to add bikes to that.

If I had my was I would require anyone riding a bike to have a drivers license. Most of the biker riders I see do not follow any of the PA motor vehicle codes. Blow through stop signs fail to signal, etc. There needs to be some sort of required riders education for them.

In Germany and the UK, the children are put through a bike training and examination in school time.....I do believe it helps.....

As a kid the local police used to do the same thing. We all went to a class for a day, and then they inspected our bikes for safety. When all was said in done the bike had a sticker put on it and we where given orange flags for the back of our bike. This allowed us to ride our bike to school instead of walking the two miles.

Sorry but I can't see taking my 8 year old son to NJMVS for a drivers license. The idea of this law was to be able to identify CHILDREN hitting pedestrians.

I feel that we have gotten way off track. I have had and seen posts removed because this is not a political forum but I am seeing this thread heading in a bad direction.

Whats so wrong with sending your kid to a bike riding safety class? They would teach them all the rules of the road, safety tips, etc. There would be an inspection of the bike. There doesn't have to be a licences per say, but maybe a sticker or something like a fishing/hunting licenses. It would say that it's OK to ride the bike and this person riding the bike went to the class and passed a test under standing the laws and rules of the road.

Or we can do it your way and say go to it kid go play in traffic don't worry about anything.

And where the Toll Tax goes?

Toll Tax?

I've never heard of a tax on tolls, but there are tolls on certain roads. In PA we have the PA Turn-Pike system. The tolls go directly to the repair, maintenance, designing, and building of the roads and bridges of the Turn-Pike. All salaries are from the general fund. The don't receive federal monies, but they still have to meet federal highway regulations.

We also have tolls on certain bridges mostly crossing the Delaware River between NJ and PA. Those tolls are for the up keep of the bridges. Its run by a joint independent commission of officials from both PA and NJ.

I think he meant the "Poll tax" from the UK in the 1980's, that the working classes in subsidised council houses refused to pay. Eventually the tax was stopped.

The idea was to tax each person who worked and lived in a particular area.

It was to replace council tax on the size of the house/land, which meant some pensioners had problems to pay the tax....

I am sure that someone from the UK can add further detail....

For your information:

Tax - To tax (from the Latin taxo; "I estimate") is to impose a financial charge or other levy upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay is punishable by law.

Paying a toll is the same as paying tax. Paying any fee imposed by any government is also a tax, be it a license fee, or wage tax. It really is all the same.

Thank you Mr. Wikipedia Hero for the definition.

I understand what Toll means and what tax means, I don't think the previous poster does maybe you should let him know.

GA

Liked your post.

And I have experinced even wors from car drivers here in states.

2 days before we were coming home from hospital [Me in one car with my son and and grandson in the other leading us to guide] and merging to left when a car passed us likje a acrobat from right to left and grandson just looked for the acrobat and steered to right to save.

Here all vehicles running at much higher speed than limits.

How it is possible to drive in that cavalcade at specified speed.

One question?

Does speed limits equally apply to all the lanes or there is some examption?

How a driver in crossing lane [left most] can overtake a veh on the right lane when all the traffic is running at specified speed limits.

Ther was a blog 0ne state is suggesting to fine slow running vehicle in the crossing lane.

Proposed Law Would Keep Slow Drivers To The Right

Actually, here in PA, we have had a similar law for a few years.

It is worded as such: All left lanes are for passing only!

I figured that some politician was cruising at 100 MPH and had to slow down for a slower vehicle.

The left lane law only applies to limited access roads. Like the Turn-Pike or Route 80.

I have long advocated this, including a reduced fee for driver's license attachment, such as motorcycles, for a long time, and long before "rails to trails" were established.

Policing would actually be easier and safer than for autos. (No high speed chases).

I would propose that the fee and/or plate law begins with the age an individual state starts the driver license scheme for residents and autos. Kids don't need burdened.

We as drivers of motorized vehicles, pay fuel taxes for road upkeep, do not have the privilege of the set aside leisure only "rails to trails" (I know people here in the Pittsburgh, PA area who can travel from town to town quicker on the trail than by motorways).

This brings up another thing that infuriates me; I have a good friend who cannot drive, but can handle his slow speed internal combustion 4 wheeled wheel chair like equipment, but was fined for using a trail to go shopping for food at a neighboring town, maybe 3 miles distant.

Who among us has not been slowed down, seen very poor bicycle driving practice, and actually seen accidents caused by darting in and out of traffic in the inner city.

Forget any smoke screens of just cause, that was passed over long ago.

Unless the tax use is accountable, i.e. taxes used only for the specified reason(s)
for them, then they can tax anything. As it is now, many taxes are not used (fully)
for their collected use. This implies they collect whatever amounts they can in taxes,
and reason(s) given for them are only platitudes for a gullible if understanding public.

While the member Andy gives his case for bicycle licences, likewise why not walkers?
They equally use the roads, more so having designated areas attributed for them!
(crossings) Or as the previous member states, even "golf holes" (clubs already taxed)

Why not have a "window tax" and let history repeat itself?

Simply, there are so many anomalies in the tax systems (and likely many others) they
beggar belief. It is only the rational understanding of and acceptance (apathy) by the
public which lets them pursue them; an enlightened targeted approach to taxes would
be far more acceptable to those that really care. (i.e. can you do better?)
Spend the money on specifically what it is raised for, or in a word, accountability.

This would be good for everyone, and not those addicted to misappropriation.

jt.

Err... Can I have some more Sir?

As someone mentioned earlier, we did this when we were kids on a "voluntary" basis. I have a hard time believing that even at $100 fine, the enforcement would not cost more than the revenue seen. Why not just propose it as a voluntary option to assist with the states finances. Or make a lottery out of it, draw a plate number every week...they will make millions!

I had an uncle who was once arrested for "walking without a license". No joke, it really happened. Come monday morning arraignment, people in the next county could hear the judge berating the arresting officer. We had common sense in those days. Alas, I fear as a civilization we are doomed. Doomed, I say.

YO! Watch out who you are speaking for.

"WE can understand why an assemblywoman in New Jersey has proposed a $10 license fee for bicycles!?"

That's about the biggest pile of BS I could ever imagine..

She and anyone in agreement can shove that idea straight up their tailpipe.

$100 fines are the only way they would be making enough money to cover the whole program in the first place.

The whole idea makes me sick to my stomach.

What's next.. mandatory cycle safety inspections? Annual helmet replacement?

It smacks in the face of bicycle ownership and the freedom it provides.

...If you are going to license my bike, you may as well license my shoes... At which point I will be walking away barefoot.

If you work for the government.. Think about the ways you can spend less revenue rather than create more (revenue) to spend.. ..Try quitting your job assemblywoman... That would help A LOT!

"Live Free or Die" my a**

"Live Free or Die" is New Hampshire - NOT New Jersey!

Oh.. That's right..
I knew that.. Since you come to mention it.. It explains a lot..

Superb, best answer yet.

Really good, more should follow such a method....

GA

In the USA if you cause damage to something, and it is found to be your fault, you are held liable for that damage.

It doesn't matter if you are on a bicycle, surfboard, roller skates, running barefoot, or flying on a broom. If it's your fault, you are liable.

The only reason we have auto insurance versus bicycle insurance is:

a. Bicycles don't weigh 4,000 lbs. and travel 80 mph. Remember Ke = mv^2.

b. Most accidents with bicyclists result in the preponderance of damage occurring with the bicycle and its rider. Historically, there have been few incidents where a bicycle has cleaved a utility pole. In fact, that number is exactly zero.

As far as abiding by the motor vehicles laws, bicyclists are held accountable to the laws and ordinances, too. The amazing fact is that even though there are no bicyclist licenses, a rider/operator can still be cited and do!

The fact is, if you do something wrong (regardless of the mode of operation) you don't get off scott free. Even if your name is Scott.

All of the reasons you have cited that require licensing are accomplished in the USA without them. Frankly, if you were told that a license is a must to accomplish this, then you were unfortunately sold a bill of goods.

The only reason to license bicycles and their operators is for generating revenues at the expense of the public. It serves no other purpose than to line the coffers of government and their representatives' campaign funds.

I don't have a clue as to how good cyclists are in the USA, but in Europe they are regularly responsible for damage to vehicles, scratches and the like and they simply don't stop.......

Its a bonus if the cyclist that caused the accident is lying on the road with a broken leg or two..... instead of the passerbye....(I was almost run down last year by a cyclist on a pathway, travelling at about 40MPH actually brushed me out of the way - luckily! What chance did I have on foot with a Laptop etc to catch him up????? NONE!!! )

But as most countries do not require insurance, that still does not mean you will get anything back......even with him injured before you....

I find the Dutch answer to be a good way to fix such problems....a License number to read/note is a great idea.....

If you have never been hit by a pushbike, you may have another opinion.......

And where do these come into play?

I see a lot of them around here, with no plates, traveling up to 35 MPH or so.

I live in Germany.

Here that would need insurance and a plate. In all of Europe I do believe.

In some undeveloped countries, there are no proper laws made for such items.

Please contact your local lawmaker for better infos.... tell him your question.

Listen to the answer....what he says goes where you live.

Are you OK with the answer?

Hmm actually that sounds odd, like there is one guy deciding the laws and everyone else must blindly follow in step. In the US we employ a system of democratic representation in a republican style government. So we elect multiple representatives to discuss and sometime pass laws. If these "Lawmakers" pass a law the citizens do not like we can repeal the laws by popular vote at the State levels (at federal level we remove the representative in next election and ge tthe law repealed, though the public has the option to vote laws in or repeal them, it almost never happens). So I am not sure that whatever our "lawmaker" says goes. I am guessing that somehow it is different in Germany, though I had been lead to udnerstand it wasn't that way in germany anymore either.

As far as laws about bicycle use, those types of laws are handled at State level since they do not represnt any form of interstate transport, and are highly unpopular in the US for actual travel ( do enjoy some popularity with hobbyists). In some areas there are a significant number of bicyclists, but typically only in urban center of larger older metropolitan areas where there is limited room for automobile traffic and too many people. If bike usage increases in some states more specific laws may develop and enforcement of traffic regulations may become stricter. Unlike western Europe however, most of the US is fairly empty open space, except the immediate area of SF, Seattle, LA/SD, the few mile wide strip along eastern seaboard from Virginia through Boston and a few other isolate metropolitan Cities. A significant portion of the people in the US live in relatively small towns or rural areas, but travel to other towns for services, many times upto 100 miles away. In addition, since many Americans in the urban areas have to travel significant distances for work, bicycles are currently impractical as a means of transportation for them also (though not all). So, when it is a hobby for adults and/or a children toy, there isn't much need or impetus in many states for enforcement or regulation. Technically, most States have laws governing the use of bicycles on public roads under their vehicle codes, they just don't get enforced by police officers unless some one does soemthign really dumb and dangerous on the road and the policeman has nothing more pressing to do.

...and your point is?

That you live in a lawless country? Or what?

I think it is that we live in very different cultures.

I love Europe when I visit, but I honestly feel very lucky to live where I do.

I am quite sure that when Europeans come here to visit they feel exactly the same way when they get on the home bound flight.

I'm glad we are so different. It gives all of us a chance to explore the wonders of a diversified world.

Hi Andy, I was also knocked down by a bicycle on the pavement last year, and I suffered two broken ribs and a broken arm! First off, it is a punishable offence to ride a bicycle on the pavement if you are over 12 years old, you have to pay a £30 fine if you are caught, and secondly, he rode on without stopping at the scene of the accident, this is another punishable offence if caught, but of course if the bike rider doesn't have a registration plate it is difficult to find them, so a lisence and lisence plates should be necessary on bicycles!

Xanasax

Thats a perfect example of the need for license plates on all bikes. ALL BIKES!!!

I trust you are fully recovered by now......

Any idea of the sort of order of total cost, including your time, doctors, nursing - in fact everything......it would be interesting to hear.....I know that some things are difficult to quantify......Police time etc?

Hi Andy, All in all it cost me four weeks with my arm in a splint, and about £150, as I am retired I didn't lose any work time, but it stopped me from giving two lectures at the university of East Anglia (£150)

Xanasax.

Sounds like BS to me! If you had been paying attention to your surroundings instead of your laptop maybe you would of nitced you were wondering in the bicyclist path. I really doubt he was doing 40MPH as you claim. Nice of you to wish harm on people who are out try to excersize or use an efficient means of transpotation.

How do you know he was using a laptop while walking? It sounds like he was simply carrying it.

40 mph does sound like a stretch as that is approaching the top speed of a typical bicycle.

However, I think Andy was being a little fallacious with regard to the broken leg comment.

I was just joking but where I ride I see people with ear buds in, waddling down the paths with their dogs on 30' leashes not paying attention to what is happening around them. I also see people drive by while texting when they should pay attention to driving, In my state a bicycle has just as much right to the road as a car but the car drivers don't know or don't want to recognize this. Drivers need to pay attention and focus on driving for the safety of all involved. There are some inconsiderate cyclist but I see a lot more bad drivers.

I was carrying it in a bag over my shoulder, but the trolls here probably don't understand that as they themselves have no reason to travel with a computer (shoe salesmen and garbage disposal experts do not need a computer on the job, just look at Al Bundy for example!!!).......I travel for business reasons ALWAYS with one....

It was another poster here who listed his injuries and how long he could not work.....I have no reason to consider that he made it up.

I do watch the news here in Germany, there are many attacks, robberies and other acts where the perpetrator escapes on a bike (without license plates!). Its a faster (and thinner!) way to quickly escape from a crime scene......especially in large cities.

Which is probably the reason that some police forces in the UK and the USA have issued some officers with Bikes!!!! There is even a TV series about them in the USA I believe!!!

You wrote, "I do watch the news here in Germany, there are many attacks, robberies and other acts where the perpetrator escapes on a bike (without license plates!). Its a faster (and thinner!) way to quickly escape from a crime scene..."

Would it not be a Mr. Bean moment when the robber exits the store to make his getaway only to find his bike has been stolen?

Now wouldn't that be perfect! Going to report the theft carrying his ill gotten gains!!!

Should I be worried about this "problem?"

He should have locked it up first!!!!

How do you know the bike being used by the thieves, is not also stolen. Afterall, a stolen bike is a very minor crime when compared to robbing a store with a weapon. If you are going to rob a store, then why would you use your own bike instead of just stealing one along the way to the store?

That is possible, happens the same with cars, motor bikes and trucks every day, hour and minute.....

It does not "faze" the cops now, why should that be a problem with bikes.....it does mean that you (the thief/lawbreaker) may have to "throw away" the bike to achieve some security!!!The same with cars etc..

"Finding" your bike again would make you very suspect.......

Don't forget, and many people don't know this, all bikes have a serial number stamped into the frame....This number would be linked to the license number as both the police and I know where the number can be found.....the same as the chassis number for all cars, trucks and motor bikes......there is simply no difference....

Yes and the VIN numbers are linked to the vehicle license, in case the vehicle is stolen and illegally dismantled, or otherwise misrepresented.

As far as the bike thief thing goes, who is to say he wouldn't steal a bike for a quick get away up the street on his way to the Store (or whatever), and then dispose of the bike after he leaves along his route back, possible somewhere near where he stole it. The owner then goes out to look for it and finds it around the corner or something. It might seem suspicious, but there is no legal options.

Yeah, 40 MPH seems a little on the high side, but 25 to 30 mph would not be too unusual. My question is why would it matter where a pedestrian wander, traffic laws are traffic laws no matter if you are on a bicycle or a car, In the US pedestrians always have the right of way. Even if a pedestrian were causing an unsafe condition by visibly walking into a area where pedestrians have been explicitly excluded, such as they are on freeways, they still have the right of way though they are violating the law themselves (that does not mean you can run them down), a law enforcement agent will remove them. So if a bicyclist hits a pedestrian, the criminal offense is the same as if a car hit them, thus they should be prosecuted the same. The impetus is on the bicyclist to pay attention to the pedestrians and avoid them, not the opposite (it is just prudent for the pedestrian to pay attention, as they are also likely to be injured from an incident).

If you ride a bicycle you always have to comply with traffic regulations, like any other vehicle. Maybe this is the problem, drivers of cars are expected to be knowledgable of traffic regulation, but bicyclist are not and many even flaunt the regulations doing unsafe actions through traffic such as riding through stops signals/signs with out stopping, or crossing across traffic in the middle of multi-lane roads with islands in them.

Obviously, there are come mitigations, such as pedestrians jumping into traffic in such a manner as it would not allow reasonable response time. A guy is crossing the road in front of you and the traffic signal turns green can you proceed or must you wait? Though I am guessing he wasn't jumping out from hiding infront of the bicyclists, was he?

You are correct, but due to the fact that bikes have no license plate, they can do a lot of illegal things with impunity - and escape......the plates would stop that.

Actually, plates won't stop anything, except they may reduce theft or get more bicycles returned to owners. Think about it. They have plates on cars, and people still speed, run stop signs, etc. As long as there isn't a cop around enforcing the traffic codes. The plates on a car don't stop any drivers from committing such traffic violations. What plates are used for is to identify the owner, outstanding parking tickets against that vehicle (sometimes), and if the vehicle is stolen. It is the same for bikes, as for cars. Consider that an accepted legal argument against a ticket for running a red light and being caught on video, is that it was not you (the owner of the vehicle) driving that vehicle (not that it wasn't your vehicle, just that it wasn't you driving). Unless they get a clear photograph of the drivers face, the ticket will get thrown out. It is also not your responsibility as the owner to identify the driver.

The enforcement process has to be similar as they both fall under the vehicle code. You can not enforce the vehicle code from a practical stand point against some one who is ignorant of the vehicle code, or even that they were not the ones riding the bike. Therefore, you must have some legal basis of belief that they are knowledgable of the vehicle code. The way they do this for car and motorcycle drivers, as well as hunters, is to test them prior to allowing them to have a drivers license. You must also be able to demonstrate who ws riding the bicycle and committed the violation. So what you would really need to stop traffic code violations by bicyclist is enforcement of the vehicle code by law enforcement agents, a good means of identification of the rider (not the vehicle),and licensure of riders so they can not claim ignorance of the vehicle code.

So bike riders will better be required to have their license plates on their jacket....I find no problem with that at all.......maybe you have a really good point, not to license bikes, but to license with plates the riders.....

Totally brilliant, well thought out, I agree.....

I don't think you could require rider to wear a license plate on their person, but you can require a bicyclist drivers license/identification like vehicle drivers must carry when driving. Requiring bicyclist to where a license plate on them would be impractical, and possibly illegal. Then enforcement could be consistent with practices employed with vehicle drivers and motorcyclist. Of course law enforcement agents actually have to enforce the laws, that is the most critical part.

How about RFIDs with GPS?

1 on the bike and 1 surgically implanted on your person.

When the two are together in motion (act of riding bicycle-gotta think about carrying bike on a car), charge the person per mile and per minute as a usage fee instead of taxing for the bicycle itself.

Why not track everybody, regardless of whether they walk, ride, bike, or use snow shoes?

If you really want to do it right, add cameras and microphones in public and in homes.

I'll bet that will drop the crime rate like a stone. We can call this place... ah... Oceania!

And those that do not comply will be sent to the Ministry of Love.

AH good joke. It does not show any sense of balance though to my mind....

I hope you are never hit and injured by ANYONE not wearing/driving something that identifies them positively....and leaves you with either the medical bills or the burial costs, or maybe even both!!

You might be in hell over the it!!

While I was being a little cynical, I think it does show balance. In particular, how easy it is to ride down the slippery slope of tyranny.

I think in hindsight, almost everyone (excepting a would-be tyrant) would agree that living in a state of 1984 would be a very bad thing.

My point was to illustrate that once you start sliding in that direction, where is the demarkation that says, "Okay, this is where we stop sliding?"

Not really a slippery slope, as bicycles already fall under most States vehicle codes, and have since the codes came into existence. What has happened is that for practicality (and cost savings) most States have never bothered to enforce the codes against bicyclist like they do against other drivers, and licensure has never been mandated (in theory still expected to know the vehicle code). Additionally, every person is required to carry identification on them at all tims anyways, again just never enforced as it is deemed not worth the effort by law enforcement. So the use of license plates and/or riders licenses not any different than current. Quite simply to demonstrate a person is knowledgable of the vehicle code you don't need a new license to ride a bike for those with driver's licenses as that would already demonstrate such, just for those who do not have a drivers license. License plates on bikes don't do anything except protect against theft, as bicyclist do not have to carry insurance they owner of the bike can not have any liability (unless he is proven to be the user when an incident occurs).

You wrote, "Additionally, every person is required to carry identification on them at all tims anyways..."

What country are you referring to?

As in all civilised countries all the vehicles, with the possible exception of push bikes, are centrally registered etc., whats your problem with doing it for bikes as well?

To bring that word "Tyranny" into usage demonstrates a complete lack of balance.

Balance would be when all forms of transport are easily and correctly identifiable as far as possible. At this time, there is no balance....

Why should bikers get a "free ride?"

"Why should bikers get a "free ride?""

Dear Andy,

Why would you want to penalize such an 'all ages' motor skill development (retention) and ^_transport, with so little environmental impact and proven health benefit returns?

I haven't seen 1 valid argument for this number plate concept.

But, to even things out, why not a 'registration plate and vehicle inspection' department for all; mobile, or 'could be used in a crime', or cause injury, 'healthy exercise' equipment?

Skis, snowboards, ice skates, roller skates & blades, skate boards, baseball bats, hockey sticks (and pucks), golf clubs (and balls), running shoes; hey, fish hooks they could catch a passing innocent ...

Think of the fun this giant bureaucracy would have at the Tour de France doing 'license & vehicle checks', touring the snow, checking the Olympics, passes to all games, right through to fishing competitions .... Bahamas naturally ... and all the time, their portfolio of shares in car makers and oil companies, just rises and rises.

_{(with luck, faster than the national cost of health care)}

all ages? Hmm that seems like an exageration to support a personal opinion.Now that would be surprising. I can imagine that conversation, yes doctor it is true he can not crawl yet and still sleeps a lot but he rides a bike around all over the place now.

Also the competitive racing thing seems like it would be the same as race cars, do they have to license those for professional races? Maybe you are exagerating to such an extreme degree to touch on a fear of potentially losing control to to government to create emotion support? From my perspective I am always suspect of someone who exagerates for emotional fear based effects to support their position in an argument rather than making a ration realistic statement. You know like the whole WMD and Terrorists thing for Iraq, using fear to overcome the lack of or incapability to develop a rational realistic argument to support a position. It makes me wonder what the real motivation for or against something might be that is so adverse that it is not being disclosed.

An extraordinarily impressive extrapolation to toddlers, to terrorists

_{Foundation a tad shaky though}

In Europe (as I have written here several times already!) bikers are sometimes also "Rowdies" and use their bikes as "Get-away" vehicles, that can be difficult to follow, especially when the biker knows narrow ways of escape.....

Someone here had for example two broken ribs from a biker......and no compensation....

Also, I do believe (I read it somewhere) that although all bikes should, if the law passes, be registered, but only people over 14 should pay.....and only $10.

In Holland, I do believe they pay €100, well over $130......

If it only identifies one rowdy a month, doing something he should not, it will be worth while I feel.

I would like it for here as well. Although retired, I use my bike daily and would be more than willing to accept even the over $100 charge.....I see it as an investment in bringing some people to justice and to make them responsible for their actions. A built in insurance would be a great move as well.....

As a road user, a biker should be held responsible for his actions.....here if a biker is "over the alcohol limit", which is slightly higher than for car driving, he will lose his car driving license......as well as paying a hefty fine.....points on his license, extra heavy insurance costs for his car when he gets his license back!!!

No complaints by me for that......me being a responsible person of course!!

$130 for bike registration? that is more than my pickup registration in California. I don't know if those kind of rates would ever fly. I wonder what one of those little toy cars cost in registration there? Admittedly taxation rates do tend to be a bit higher in socialist countries. The US (States) may move that way eventually, though such taxation by the US would be illegal, as it is a State level responsibility.

You wrote, "Why should bikers get a "free ride?""

Or pedestrians?

Bikers are required to use roads, either normal one, or ones built for them..

Pedestrians find it usually to be too dangerous to wander along roads in ANY country!! Haven't you noticed that before now?

I was sure that you would have recognised this simple welknown fact without first mentioning it here!

Aaa, you diverting the subject. If bikers should not get a free pass, then why should pedestrians?

Actually, pedestrians do get their own paved roadways, we tend to call them sidewalks. yes they are pavement, as any civil or geotechnical engineer can tell you, portland cement concrete pavement. Bikers tend to ride on both, sidewalks and vehicular roadways, though they are not supposed to.

That depends. In Florida it is legal to ride on side walks (most do), but if you ride on a sidewalk and then switch to a road, you must remain on the road (crossing a street does not count). The reverse is true for those initially riding on the road. Switching to a side walk requires you to remain on the sidewalk. Silly law and it is not enforced to my knowledge.

Lastly, Florida enacted a state law that motor vehicles must stay 3 feet away (just under 1 meter) from any moving bicycle. That was a little over about a year ago and I don't know the impact of that law as far as reducing accidents.

How would you implement that. Bicyclist will ride between motor vehicles that are parked or in a traffic jam. If the motor vehicles are less than 3 feet apart and a bicyclist passes between them, then the motor vehicles, which may not be able to move, would be in violation of the law. sit in rush hour traffic in a large metropolitan city (even smaller ones of 500k to 1M have this issue as vehicular traffic begins to have traffic jams) and watch the bike cruise up between cars stuck in the bumper to bumper. I could see a law that required 3 feet clearance when a automobile passes a moving bicycle. However, then what happens when you get those enviroterrorists on Bikes like they get in San Francisco once in a while. Simple at that point 1 bike in every traffic lane of a major Roadway could cruise around at 3 mph and tie up traffic across the City. Also how does that work with the old standard vehicular code laws that require vehicles to move within a minimum speed of the speed limit or traffic around them. Do vehicles have to slow down or try to merge left because they can not clear the bike with more than 3 feet on say the freeway? attempts at merging by the way are a major cause of traffic accidents. That just sounds like a poorly crafted law as it was presented above.

I don't know. Contact the Florida Department of Transportation or the Attorney General and ask if you really are that curious.

Like any law, it is up to the police to determine when and where to enforce it, so I suspect it is up to the discretion of the officer. As a motorist, if you are creating an unsafe condition, this law could be used against you. One more tool in the box to help reduce injury.

Thats why you post as a guest, you are so full of BS, you can only believe BS. Well that is your right as a Troll on CR4.......

Sadly, you have also not learnt anything here either......as the old saying goes "you can bring a horse to water, but he has to drink on his own".....

Did you see the other post, where a CR4 member was knocked down and suffered two broken ribs and bruises?

If it had happened to you I would bet that you would suddenly have the opposite opinion!!

What BS have I posted? You are resorting to personal attacks because I called out your BS. I ride a lot and I know I have never reached 40MPH on a level road or path. Even down hill I rarely attain that speed. As far as travelling with my computer I do if needed but most of my work is done in the office.