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Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

Posted June 16, 2011 12:17 PM

From CNET News.com:

In advance of the Paris Air Show, the aviation giant is touting its new freighter's ability to fly using a fuel mixture with 15 percent renewable plant matter.

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#1

Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/17/2011 1:24 AM

Come on! The solar-powered plane was cool, but isn't this pretty much like kids learning that they can light their farts?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/17/2011 5:23 AM

It's more than that. It's about learning that farts can be used to power a Rolls-Royce aero engine.

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#3
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/17/2011 7:46 AM

Farting plants?

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#4
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/17/2011 11:22 AM

Believe. Just believe.....

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#5
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/17/2011 5:44 PM

...oh, I do, I do.......

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#7
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/19/2011 5:23 AM

Well we've done our bit and gone solar.

Last week we had 1 kW worth of panels installed on the roof and an inverter connected to our main incoming feed so we're generating at least a portion of our electricity from solar. We also purchased a larger inverter than we needed so we can add another 1 kW worth of panels later when the price and efficiency of photovoltaic cells improves.

It's winter, or nearly so over here and we're getting about 7.5 kWhr of energy from them every day. When summer comes we can expect that to almost double. It doesn't seem a lot but when you multiply that by 365 days a year along with the ever increasing price of electricity it soon adds up.

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#8
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/19/2011 8:35 AM

In Brit money, you're saving about £1/day. Cost of panel about £5k-£7k,,,,,,,,,,lifetime of panel maybe 30 years (I'm an optomist)......hmmmm...

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#9
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/19/2011 9:46 AM

After subsidies the final out of pocket costs for the system was AU$4,500.00 ( UK₤2940.18 US$4778.55) and that included an extra AU$500.00 ( UK₤327.80 US$530.95) for the upgraded inverter to allow for future expansion.

Currently the cheapest we pay for electricity is about AU$0.14 but it varies according to the time of day and can be as high as AU$.40. The cost of electricity is also going to increase next year by up to 25% and that's before they work in the carbon tax the government plans to introduce in the not too distant future. Anyway, it all gets very complicated but with the predicted increase in the price of electricity the payback period is between 3½ and 4 years.

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#10
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/19/2011 2:05 PM

3½ and 4 years

That ain't bad.

At one time, the orgasmic screech from Brits was, "thank crap, I've payed off the bloody mortgage'. Reason for my mild baiting was that I've yet to hear anybody exclaim, "I've payed off the bloody solar/windy".

Whatever the financial facts, it's a noble endeavour. Demand drives prices.

Anyone reading this might enjoy reading Del's DIY solar stuff (no link - you wanna know, you go find). It's beautiful, and far more pragmatic in the UK.

Despite my seeming scheptisism, it's very cool, masu. Any chance you can blog this further - some sort of monthly update on how energy generated goes etc.

A lot of 'green power' chat I consign to the circular filing cabinet, but I would love to hear how this project goes. You have the obvious advantage of sun, but are we (UK) are yet at the point of investable purpose. Anybody trying to sell windmills or siolar arrays is off their trolley

As you mentioned, this comes down to cost of PVA (cells, not the glue). MHO (ER will kill me - bad granma, and no9t humble|) is that we are not there yet. More demand = lower prices, so kudos for your endevour.

As a slight adjunct, people in the UK can make money from 'green' energy. Windmill in garden, inverter, new meter, and the elec companies will pay you money no mater what. It's all down to government grants etc. 'Green', and 'Eco' are in the UK complete scams.

My impression is that this may well work in Oz, but the UK system is a complete nonsense. If only we had sunnier climes, such as Oz and Texas.

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#11
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/19/2011 2:09 PM

Ooops, forgot to mention......

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#12
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/19/2011 8:17 PM

Read some stuff, while back, on the City of Westminster? (I think), looking for power autonomy via tri-generation and PV (no link - you wanna know, you go find)

Seemed the right kind of thinking for the climate. But as it goes more like Spain, PV should become a better option. Not that climate change is actually happening.

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#14
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/20/2011 9:18 AM

no link - you wanna know, you go find

RODFPMS ! YWK ? CFHK thud 'n TLA's

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#13
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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/20/2011 3:54 AM

What I'll probably do is start up a thread under the future energy sources blog and keep it updated as time goes as to how it's performed.

Something else that I hadn't considered is whether the excess capacity in the inverter could be fed from a wind turbine generator. Logically it shouldn't matter provided it's DC the inverter should be able to take power from anything but I'm not sure you can mix different technologies on the same inverter.

We are about 1 km back from the coast on the side of a hill so about 13:00 every day we get a regular sea breeze as the land heat up that lasts till a few hours after sunset so having a wind turbine as well does make some sense.

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Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/20/2011 9:37 AM

I'm probably being stoopid, and missing something here. In the UK, you can pump excess back into the grid. It requires a special meter (couple o' hundred quid I think). You get payed for this energy, and with the UK system a windmill can churn out bugger all yet reap a tidy profit. No, I don't understand either, it simply is. In much the same way, housing developers get dosh for PVA - even if it's pointing North.

Much as I admire your knowledge, masu, and I agree with the 'buy it, prices will come down' phillosophy, I have yet to hear the Eurika cry - "It's payed off". At the risk of being repetative, some of Del's stuff is ingenious. By and large, 'off the shelf' green systems suck donkey. I've no doubt you have vigorously planeed this one out, it simply doesn't 'gel' in the UK market.

Thank for the input, masu, I shall follow this with rapt interest. Much thanks to you, Del, and many others who have chatted on this topic. Perhaps one day can put all this info to practicable purpose.

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#6

Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/17/2011 5:49 PM

Thunderbirds are go !

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#16

Re: Boeing: 747-8F Will Be First to Fly Across Atlantic With Biofuel

06/28/2011 5:39 AM

Meanwhile Honeywell flew its biofuel test bed business jet across the Atlantic to the Paris Air Show using the same but pure biofuel on one of its two engines. The other engine was powered by conventional JET-A1, but the interesting part is that the engine that ran on the biofuel used 15 gallons less fuel that the regular JET-A1 powered engine.

15 gallons on such a long trip isn't much but considering how much airlines spend on fuel even a small saving can mean millions so if they can get the cost of the biofuel down to that of JET-A1, which they believe they can, then they will have airlines beating at their door for the new fuel.

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