Curse of the Competent?

Nice work.

Thanks JB. It's always fun to out think the supposed smart guys.

Yes, that's true.

I had an experience, though not outsmarting anyone, when my son was born.

My wife's mother and brother were visiting us from Japan to help my wife during her last few weeks of labor and to see results of my wife's 40 weeks of hard labor (and my 10 minute contribution). My wife and son returned home from the hospital on Thursday in July. This being Florida, it's quite hot and humid. Not to worry, we have central air conditioning. I came home from work the next day (Friday) to a house that was obviously not being cooled. It was 6 pm on Friday and the earliest we could get someone out to the house to look at the AC was Monday which was not acceptable having a new born and recovering wife at home.

We were contemplating our options (be miserable for a few days...go stay in a hotel...etc.) - none seemed very appealing, so I decided to go have a look at it. I pulled off the side cover of the unit and looked over the schematic on it. Long story short, the fan for the condenser would not run because of a problem on the circuit card which controls the relay of the fan. Since the fan would not run, the system would overheat and shut off. I temporarily by-passed the circuit card so the fan would run all the time. By 9 PM we had AC and throughout the weekend.

My in laws were amazed (not a lot of do-it-yourselfers in Japan or at least in my wife's family). While my mother-in-law has always thought highly of me, this put me way up on a pedestal of expectations that I'm afraid I may not quite be able to live up to.

Excellent thinking!!! Hey...............scoring bownie points with the inlaws far outstrips outsmarting anyone.

Do not knock it. Collect all brownie points. You may use them profitably in the future.

I would like to understand "why" turning the lights on and generating the heat caused condensation of the water vapor. Warm air can hold more moisture so thus is less likely to condense. That is the principle of the Golden Rod heater in gun cases. Can you explain your theory more fully since it obviously worked and was correct!

I didn't realize fluorescents generated that much heat.

They don't get that hot. All they had to do was raise the temperature inside the fixtures above the dew point, while the air outside the fixtures, and the fixtures themselves, were below the dew point....................condensation on inside of fixtures.

i see

I still don't "see." My guess would be that the light created a microclimate that allowed the true humidity to rise while they were on, which would then condense when they were off.

Hi, Anytime the "Dew Point" (relative humidity) gets within 2 degrees of the temperature there are visible signs of moisture. The wet air then condenses on colder objects and runs down behind the hole in the paint and makes a big nasty bubble.

That Kramarat has to clean up!

florescent are cool to the touch, even the humidity in a steam room effects I am not sure as to how that would have an effect. But when he mentioned that they put stand offs on the elements, that I could see.

So here I am, sitting inside my light fixture, (house). It's cold and wet outside. Earlier, I had no heat on and a window open. Same temperature and humidity, inside and out. There was no condensation. Once I warmed up my house, (light fixture)...........................within a very short time......................wet.

I thought I was done, but my single pane kitchen window, combined with a day of cold damp air, inside and out, provided a perfect demonstration of what I'm talking about.

YES, you are right. As in YOU ARE RIGHT about the physics. Interesting, curious, yes.

Some people are simply constitutionally obstinate. Well, I love them, and bypass them.

In life it takes all kinds. Not all can be converted.

be well

Ahhh, I'm not trying to knock anybody down. I never took any physics. Just learn things through observation. Most of it, I can't explain in scientific terms. It's just the way it is.

Kramarat, you know more physics than the average professional physicist. Professional training is good and necessary. But understanding comes from the inside of you. I can help you in that travel, but I am flat out unable to MAKE you to understand. And I am a pretty good teacher. My kids turned out good. But, me teaching physics, Nil, Zero, Ne Nada, as in nothing, to them. One went to languages, the other to biochemistry.

Talent, as we share, is still a mistery.

And we have plenty of talent. Let's spread it.

Wow...................I usually have to pay people to say stuff like that.

Don't get me started on dark matter.

Well, sonny, you cannot pay me. I am a bit ornery in that kind of things.

Other than that, You are welcome, ornery habits and all

best regards

Okay. The building was made of brick, with plaster and lath on the inside. With open water tanks inside, warm or cold, it was always very damp/humid inside.

If it got cold at night, and warm during the day, the walls would sweat, (condense moisture), because they would remain cold, (below the dew point), well past the point that the air in the building had warmed up. So the moisture in the warmer humid air would condense on the cool walls.

What was happening, is that the light fixtures were becoming a microcosm of the building itself.................in reverse.

So, when the lights were off, there was moist air both inside and outside the fixtures, at the same temperature................no condensation.

When the lights were turned on, it created warm moist air on the inside of the fixtures. It was night time and going into winter, so we had cold air on the outside of the fixtures. The cold air on the outside of the fixtures kept both the plastic lenses, and the metal boxes below the dew point..........................so whatever water vapor was on the inside of the fixtures, once warmed, would condense on the inside, (cool), walls of the fixture.

Here's a picture. I chilled the glass and put a little warm water in it. The condensation is on the inside. Now suppose I had that jar in a cool, moist environment...........all the same temperature inside and out. Now I light a small bulb on the inside, but keep the outside cold. Moisture is going to condense on the inside walls, because I now have warm moist air inside, and walls, (the light fixtures), that are well below the dew point.

Bear in mind, that this wouldn't normally happen in real life. Only in a situation like inside a water plant. In fact, I had to build 2x4 frames with plastic covers for the tanks. Not only to protect the water supply from debris, but also to dry out the building so my paint would stick, and not seal any moisture in the walls.

The problem was twofold. During the day when the lights were off, because the fixtures were mounted to the still cold walls, they, along with the walls, would condense moisture from the warmer surrounding air. By the time any of these meetings were held, everything had equalized.

Kramarat, You are right. Physics tells you, You are right, I am telling, You are right. Only people doubt it. Good luck with that one.

best regards

I don't know about competent, but when I was younger I loved my job and what I do. Couldn't get enough of it.

Always came in early, thinking I could leave at a reasonable hour, was still there 11:00- 12:00 at night.

Customers in an emergency would always called at work no matter what time because they knew there would be a chance I would be there.

Anyways I recall coming in at 5:30 one morning, one of the owners of the company, (also a hard worker, I'll call Joe) was there also. As I past him, I thought I'd head it to the bathroom before I started the day off. And as I entered I heard the phone ring, (off hours the phone ring was on the PA).

As I was in the stall doing my business, Joe bursts into the bathroom, and announces, "Mike ?????? from XXXXX is on the phone, its an emergency, the new process line is down and company heads are coming from Missouri for final approval and sign off of the line, he needs to talk to you right away." As he's handing the phone underneath the stall.

I told Joe, Just give me 5 minutes, It can wait 5 minutes. And I stood firm after some whining.

Shock and a little pissed off because not only my last refuse of sanctuary is no more, but, the phone was live and Mike could hear everything.

Well, I didn't get the last laugh but the customer (Mike) on line was still laughing 5 minutes later when I answered.

Years ago I worked as copier service tech and one model of copiers we carried never produced good dark copies due to the digital control system simply never allowing enough range on the contrast function to make it work. It used a photo sensor to read the actual contrast of the print and did the contrast control from some sort of feedback loop that regulated the toner transfer.

One customer had this machine and was picky about the quality of their copies and said they wanted dark black print no matter what it costs so after a number of program changes I came up with the final solution to simply put a 10K resistor in parallel with the photo sensor that read the contrast and heavily bias the analog signal off that sensor to the point that it faked the software limits into going further than they where designed too!

It worked great but burned up about 4 times the amount of toner after that but they where happy with the prints!

Some time after that the cooperation reps where in town and my manger mentioned that I had solved the program issue with that particular model. They asked me how I got the programing to go that far and I simply said I didn't bother. I just biased the analog part of the feedback loop systems so that the system would work the way it should not the way it was designed.

They said that would cause the machine to use to much toner and I said so what? We sell it to them and the customers are happy with the results regardless of the increase in supplies so who cares!

I have loads of story's like this but the vast vast majority have generally and unfortunately always fallen on the deaf ears and blind eyes of those who where above me in the work place who mostly responded with don't understand it, don't care to, now go back to work.

Psychologists have said that the extent to which you teach your co-workers is the extent to which they hate you.

Being the solutions guy is not always the same thing as being the appreciated guy. Your boss was insecure.

Now THAT'S the kind of story I came hear to read! That was a great laugh! Thanks. And a GA from me just for making me feel so good!

Those are all great stories. I have one too.

Champlin Refining bought an expensive 5,000 Barrel an hour "in line gasoline blending system". They had a lot of difficulty keeping it running. It had "Waugh Controls" for electronics and they were at the point of pulling them out and replace them with "Foxboro" controls. I told them I could make the "Waugh" stuff work, but not under Warranty (for free), they said No. So I called Charles Waugh himself and told him if he would make me the Texas Rep. for Waugh Controls I could I could save his only South Texas installation from being pulled out. He said Please do you are now my Rep. and paid me to iron out the Bugs and everyone was happy.

As a machinist, the time came when my boss, (the CEO), would routinely contract jobs not knowing how or whether they could be done, relying on my abilities instead. He was also an able working machinist, (when he had plenty of backlog and felt the urge), but he just was not an inventive machinist.

When he tried to set up a machine for a job with a newer material one time, (an especially stringy plastic), it was hilarious. He worked for a few days on it, adding more and more beautiful cutters but cutting a terrible finish. Of course I did the job, but the funny thing was that it only took a few minutes for me to hone two of his eight absolutely sharp and worthy cutters to a more appropriate angle. (A tiny difference.) A half hour later, when I turned in the thirty finished prototype pieces with measured 8 to 16 micron finishes, he was shocked; said, "Did you have to change out my tools?"

"No, they're fine, still in place".

He pondered, his face turned red, and he finally shouted, "Liar!".

I laughed, he grinned with watery eyes, I started to say how to work that type of material. He was too proud to be taught, laughed and sent me on my way.

I had learned to teach so it was very hard to learn with convincing "sincerity" because that cutthroat did not compensate for it in any tangible way, and I knew what his vast profit out of my hour was. Anything I taught was passed on to 15 co-workers.

Wealth is a poor gauge of intelligence and ethics.

I moved on to better circumstances. He who laughs last, laughs best.

Wealth is a poor gauge of intelligence and ethics.

Or it is a good gauge of ethics inversely speaking, I guess intelligence can be included with inverse metrics.

Just look at our financial institutions and CEO's in the past 30 years.

Intelligence too - he spent years trying but failing to figure out how I did many things I would have shown for a comparative pittance. That knowledge left with me, along with his ability to fulfill many recurring lucrative orders.

Maybe there is more to the suffering engineer story than meets the eye. Maybe not.

In what way did your response constitute a teaching moment?

The fact that your boss routinely contracted work, (that was his talent, evidently) that he relied on you as a professional to devise solutions (your talent, evidently), and that you refused to contribute to the the project in question because he was attempting to do some work which you felt was your sole domain. Pride and ego spoil many a company. The question is, whose pride and ego are we talking about?

You seem to assume I was not busy, or that he was at all bashful of directing me/that I refused any directive. None of these has ever been true.

As I said, he was a competent machinist. I didn't know what he was up to until he asked me to take over, nor did I have time to check it out. At that time, my workload far exceeded his, hence his foray onto the shop floor. The "gentleman" or "hobby" machinist.

He didn't react out of need as much as frustration. The same scenario played out many times, but I worked for compensation, never to give it all away. If the pay had been merit based rather than sub-par, I would not only have taught little techniques; I would have taught them all how to figure these things out. The next shop I went to got some of that for 40% higher, but not unusual pay scale.

Mine was the pride of accomplishment and dissatisfaction with miserly greed. His was the pride of monetary entitlement that though he tried numerous times, was not enough to replicate my skill level through another machinist. We always had cordial to friendly relations.

I'm not assuming anything, as I said, maybe it was the case of the miserly boss being a prick, or maybe not. Since you are on this forum, I am assuming you are probably a pretty well informed person, maybe someone I would want in my company.

I have occasionally recognized, particularly with talented trade, engineers, sales, etc, people, an inability to consign real value to others around them in relation to team success. As a CEO, I have been guilty of this. It may be because specialized talent is not common, but essential, and often the organizer faces real challenges in maintaining solvency, much less profitability, while trying to let people do the things they are good at and enjoy, while forcing others, including themselves, to do things they don't want to do, in order to prosper. It can be a chore with very little personal reward, made even less fun when team members really feel like they have been disrespected. Sounds like you were disrespected, and I don't find that acceptable, but just wanted to point out that very often, accountants, salespeople, engineers, machine operators feel the same way.

I couldn't agree more, fully sympathize, and took no hard feelings from your comments.

I never could respect any, (prima-donna), who thought themselves too good to do any particular job for the team. They are disgusting, and often best suited as ballast, in light of the counter-productive influence they can have on general moral. Respect goes a long way and it has to be earned.

In a company where I worked,before I joined them,they installed two identical power transformers and energised. Upon checking the voltages in secondary they found R1 to R2=0,Y1 to Y2 and B1 to B2 not zero therefore the young chief engineer said the vector groups were not matching and after some time he left the company. After an year when I joined them I told it was not a problem of vector group but it was a matter of wrong connection of phases on the primary. The Chartered Engineer in that Company did not listen to me. The MD called an engineer from the utility to verify the vector groups and when he was measuring voltages between phases,phase to N,phase to E etc I told him to check the connections in the primary. He switched off the two transformers and checked with an ohm meter and found that in the second transformer the connections to yellow and blue phases on the 11kV primary were interchanged by the cable jointer. We interchanged the two single core cables from the utility and found the phases were identical. Imagine the MD of our company trusted his chief engineer and wrote to the transformer manufacturer that the two transformers had different vector groups???.