Power Generation and Distribution Blog Blog

Power Generation and Distribution Blog

The Power Generation and Distribution Blog is the place for conversation and discussion about electrical power generation, designing and installing power systems, high voltage power lines, power distribution, design & installation services, and anything else related to the power generation industry. Here, you'll find everything from application ideas, to news and industry trends, to hot topics and cutting edge innovations.

Previous in Blog: Where is My Fusion Reactor?   Next in Blog: Solar Roadways Drive Forward
Close
Close
Close
25 comments
Rate Comments: Nested

Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

Posted April 26, 2014 12:01 PM by Engineering360 eNewsletter

There have been plenty of warnings about power grid security before, but this one might be the most shocking of all. Even though the U.S. has more than 55,000 transmission substations, a new government study says that an attack on just nine of them could bring down the power grid for the entire country. How is that even possible? And why aren't these key substations under better protection? IEEESpectrum examines the conclusions of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission report, and suggests what can be done to decrease the threat to the substations, and to the grid.


Editor's Note: This news brief was brought to you by the Power Generation & Distribution eNewsletter. Subscribe today to have content like this delivered to your inbox.

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
2
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#1

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/26/2014 12:45 PM

It seems stupid to publicise it then, wouldn't you think?
Del (slaps furry head with paw)

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/26/2014 1:47 PM

Well they didn't say exactly which 10 are the most effective to attack.

With that you have a 1:5500 chance of hitting one at random and a far less chances of hitting all 10 of the most critical at random!

More realistically it would all come down to what form of attack was being used. Given that any switchyard or substation that is large enough to cause a major blackout is also physically huge just blowing up a vehicle near one is not likely to do major damage.

As far as driving a explosive laden vehicle into one again the persons involved would need to have very good understanding to the layout of the such a substation and where they could actually drive once the managed to get past the security fence a related physical obstacles inside.

Reason being most of the large equipment is mounted on large concrete bases and heavy steel framework that would prevent someone from just randomly ramming a high speed vehicle into the center of a station.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done but it would not be bonehead terrorist simple either.

Reply
Member

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 6
#25
In reply to #2

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

06/12/2014 10:57 AM

It probably does not matter what 10 you where to pick, yet if you totally take 10 our of the 55,000, you can take down a large section of the grid, perhaps 1/3 of the country.

Chad released during one conflict did disrupt the country being attacked greatly! Something to do with metal strips over the 100,000 volt lines caused a huge problem.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phnom Penh
Posts: 4019
Good Answers: 102
#7
In reply to #1

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 1:11 AM

Certainly does seem a little lose lipped.

A determined group or even a lone wolf could do the research to figure which 9 put out of action would cause the most widespread disruption. Or which one in particular would meet the disruptor's minimum objective.

Logically (or maybe not), the nation's 9 biggest substations would be the ones to target....

__________________
Difficulty is not an obstacle it is merely an attribute.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phnom Penh
Posts: 4019
Good Answers: 102
#12
In reply to #7

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 8:22 AM

lose lipped .....should be: loose lipped.

__________________
Difficulty is not an obstacle it is merely an attribute.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1869
Good Answers: 67
#16
In reply to #12

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 4:18 PM

Lose-lipped only occurs during loss-of-face. Ask those Malaysians, but don't expect an answer any time soon.

Those nine substations? Hide them in Srilanka. They'll be perfectly safe.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#3

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/26/2014 2:33 PM

A genset and transfer switch will fix you right up.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Atchison Village
Posts: 383
Good Answers: 39
#4

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/26/2014 10:42 PM

Mortars. Rocket propelled grenades. 50 caliber sniper rifles. Precision is what you need, not brute force. I disapprove of all this, to be clear, but let's not fool ourselves. A local major substation was attacked recently near San Jose by a well-trained group of terrorists. Not much on the news for something so important, whereas some unhappy teenager stowing away in a wheel wheel to Hawaii went on for days.

__________________
Align culture with nature...
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#13
In reply to #4

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 9:13 AM

One to keep control on possible panic,....it happened In the past.............. But in this case, it may be political.

I would be more interested in hearing about this, is there any media on it.

I googled it.... No major coverage.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1439
Good Answers: 31
#5

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/26/2014 10:56 PM

Decentralize power production and distribution.

The existing centralized power production and distribution system is overly expensive, vulnerable to natural and man-made disruption, limits competition, and is hugely inefficient.

__________________
"The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." -- Michelangelo
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MSP, MN
Posts: 728
Good Answers: 8
#6

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/26/2014 11:55 PM

And there are 200,000 miles of high-voltage transmission lines, most of them in isolated areas, and not so much as a "please don't touch" sign.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: West Coxsackie, NY
Posts: 533
Good Answers: 10
#8

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 1:16 AM

It's time to go off grid now.

__________________
"Real Bass Players" do not use picks
Reply
6
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#9

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 5:09 AM

Is this a rerun of a few weeks ago. More propaganda reruns. If it is such a hassle, paint the sub station day glow orange and it can be found easily. I really get the impression from these blogs the USA lives in total fear, daily. If it is not global warming fear, it is grid supply fear, then it running out of fresh water and good ground water.

I have the impression you are pretty much an insecure nation of people. Correct me if I am wrong.

If it is a great fear then stop being reliant on grid suppliers, Stop wasting your water with frac'ing. And stop giving your rights away so easily to profiteering organisations and companies. We are told how wonderful the USA bill of rights are in the USA. Stop giving them away and try saying NO, unacceptable, forget it.

Democracy: of the people, by the people, for the people! Or is this democracy: biggest wallet, big cheque, biggest pay off democracy?

Reply Good Answer (Score 6)
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phnom Penh
Posts: 4019
Good Answers: 102
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 5:58 AM

US population is now over 300 million.

I think the fear in the US is due to overcrowding and resource competition.

The highish living standard and reasonable domestic security also gives "The People" the luxury of time to worry about and create abstract threats.

__________________
Difficulty is not an obstacle it is merely an attribute.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4528
Good Answers: 106
#14
In reply to #9

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 9:59 AM

It's never been a democracy, it's a rebublic (even though the democrats are running things). And what do you want us to do about all those things that we have no control over, mister smarty pants? Show us some data that we are more unsecure than other countries. And where are you from? Stop hiding behind anonymity. That's a cowards way of attacking.

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 10:50 AM

The strangest thing is, this smarty pants builds you HV DC converter station for you. Yes, foreign labour, foreign knowledge and my brains and knowledge to give you an electricity supply at 3500MW. And this smarty pants makes sure you get a quality installation that lasts for 45 years minimum. And every station you have can be found on Google, very easily. So if your stations are under threat from make believe attackers, don't you think that you should not be showing them on a public site.

So, I speak from daily experience, any idiot with a laptop can find your stations and they don't even need to be in the USA to find them. Now that is some security system you have!

Definitely not hiding from anyone here. I simply don't see why you need to live in fear, unless of course you don't have the global knowledge that you should have. And perhaps you are lead to believe you need to be controlled. Is it not time realise, that all your wars you fought to be 'free' were in vain. People died so that you may keep your rights and you want to tell me you have no control. Boy, that is rich.

Every country has the same problem with their grid systems, no one said other wise, you are not alone, just don't make a big song and dance about it in public, that is asking for trouble and telling the world your weakness. Now that is really smart!

The smart people make alternate ways to be less reliant on one supplier. That is basic business everywhere, but why not with ordinary people? Is it only allowed for business?

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1895
Good Answers: 44
#24
In reply to #15

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

05/12/2014 1:31 AM

What makes you so sure that so much of the critical infrastructure of the US is visible from the air?

That would be completely idiotic, wouldn't it?

...

We're not completely idiotic.

Reply
2
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5197
Good Answers: 266
#17
In reply to #9

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/28/2014 7:36 AM

The media has this thing. That there is no new unless it's bad news. The Good News just don't sell. Each news organization puts it's own twist on the bad news to make it seem worst then the last guy report. Remember their in it for profit. Also remember that the media is not state run. No body telling them what to print. In your other comment you brought up the Bill of Rights. Which pretty much lets them print any nonsense they want.

So you think Americans live in fear. Maybe is good thing to give those from other countries a false sense of security. I doubt though their leaders fall for it.

Like the boy that called wolf. Most here pay little attention to what the media prints or says. We have been bombarded with these twist of the truth for too long. If something does peak our interest it just too easy to do our own research and come to our own conclusions.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/28/2014 7:50 AM

The adage 'Bad news is good news' is out the door for todays journalists,....

Not its just mediocre news will do to satisfy and agenda to satisfy its media base..

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1439
Good Answers: 31
#23
In reply to #17

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/28/2014 11:08 PM

" it just too easy to do our own research and come to our own conclusions." -----

Accurate electronic information is the modern foundation of knowledge - its calculation and control fundamental to the maintenance and projection of power. Is it reasonable to assume that those who have it would want to limit access to it?

"Knowledge is power." ---- Sir Francis Bacon.

__________________
"The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." -- Michelangelo
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
3
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Member United States - Member - Army Vet in the aviation industry

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bridgewater, Va.
Posts: 2175
Good Answers: 119
#19
In reply to #9

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/28/2014 8:43 AM

Nope, it's mostly fear mongering by an insatiable 24/7 news media.

Half the American population doesn't care about anything as long as their government support checks keep coming.

40% of the American population are too busy working to have time to pay attention to the "fear".

9% of the population just plain don't have a clue.

Then there's Colorado with their Easter replacement pot festival who have totally dropped out.

Hooker

Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
2
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phnom Penh
Posts: 4019
Good Answers: 102
#20
In reply to #19

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/28/2014 8:52 AM
__________________
Difficulty is not an obstacle it is merely an attribute.
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Member United States - Member - Army Vet in the aviation industry

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bridgewater, Va.
Posts: 2175
Good Answers: 119
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/28/2014 9:21 AM

Touche...

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2004
Good Answers: 31
#22
In reply to #19

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/28/2014 1:18 PM

Well that brings things into balance. It really is no different anywhere then.

And, thanks for the honest answer.

'Power to the people'.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Metro.Manila, Philippines.
Posts: 1271
Good Answers: 27
#11

Re: Attacking Nine Substations Could Disable Entire U.S. Grid

04/27/2014 7:12 AM

For a global forum like this, loose lips may sink some ships!

__________________
vsar
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Reply to Blog Entry 25 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

cuba_pete (1); europium mkII (1); Gavilan (2); Golden_HVAC (1); Hooker (2); IQ (3); Jimh77 (1); ormondotvos (1); ozzb (1); phoenix911 (2); SSCpal (1); StandardsGuy (1); tcmtech (1); Tornado (1); user-deleted-1105 (1); vsar (1); Wal (4)

Previous in Blog: Where is My Fusion Reactor?   Next in Blog: Solar Roadways Drive Forward

Advertisement