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The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

Posted August 09, 2007 6:00 AM

According to the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), if just 3 of the 50 states turned to wind power, it would be enough to power the entire nation. In New York State, the North Creek region of the Adirondacks has become a center of controversy regarding this source of "green energy". A proposal for the construction of 10 wind turbines has split residents, landowners, and lovers of the Adirondacks. This mountainous region of northern New York has 3000 ponds, 2000 miles of hiking trails, and nearly 100 campgrounds.

The proposed Barton project borders the Gore Mountain Ski Area, more specifically the backside of the mountain. The land behind Gore Mountain used to be home to the Barton Mines Company, LLC. This land is partially zoned for Industrial Use and the rest is for Resource Management. Because the land was previously used as a mining site, there is already a road and power lines running up to the proposed site. Unlike any other wind project constructed or under review in New York State, the Barton project wouldn't be in a residential area.

The proposed wind turbines would be 400 ft tall and buried 35+ feet below the ground. They would operate at 15 - 18 revolutions per minute, depending on the wind-speed. In simple terms, wind power is derived from the natural occurrence of wind. For these massive turbines to run there must be a constant wind speed of 10 mph. The Barton site reportedly has an average wind speed of 18 mph. According to the Adirondack Wind Energy Park, a group that favors the proposed project, the 10 proposed turbines could produce up to 30 MW of power, enough to supply over half of the homes in Warren County, a 2,413 km2 area with a population of 60,000+. The website also claims that this would be the equivalent of taking 11,000 automobiles off the road.

Much of the controversy surrounding the proposed Adirondack Wind Energy Park is focused on the visual obstruction of the turbines. Those in favor of the Adirondack wind project argue that although there would be some visual obstruction, it would symbolize the region's movement towards "green power". Not only are wind turbines seen as being a positive symbol, but many people argue that there are already visual obstructions from the ski area itself. These obstructions include ski trails, snowmaking equpiment, and ski lifts. The Adirondack Park Agency (APA), manager of the largest publicly protected area in the contiguous United States, is being urged to move forward with this project. Still, the verdict it is out on whether the project will be implemented or not.

I'm curious to know how this is going to turn out. I once saw a television interview with interviewing Bill McKibben, an author, biology professor, and environmental activist, about whether this project was necessary. His argument was that if we don't go forward with this project, global warming will eventually kill the same land that people are fighting to save.

It had been rumored that the Adirondack Park is used as a model for maintaining wilderness areas across the world. If the Adirondacks move forward with the Barton project, do you think that other parks will be more likely to follow?

If the Adirondack Wind Energy proposal is rejected, I wonder:

  • Will changes in climate impact skiing?
  • Will it effect stream-flow for kayaking, canoeing, or rafting?
  • Will animals and unique Adirondack vegetation be compromised?

So, what do you think?

http://www.apa.state.ny.us/Property_Owners/LandUse.html

http://www.adirondackwind.com/may09wnbz.html

http://www.adirondackwind.com/about.html

http://www.adirondackwind.com/qa.html

http://www.apa.state.ny.us/About_Park/index.html

http://visitadirondacks.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_County,_New_York

http://www.energy.gov/

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#1

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 7:44 AM

The proposed wind turbines would be 400 ft tall and buried 35+ feet below the ground.

Can anyone explain this sentence?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 9:28 AM

What I was trying to say that the turbines would stand at a height of 400ft above ground, and go down over 35ft into the ground.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 9:34 AM

Two nations divided by a common language!

Cheers!

In the UK...it irritates me that some people think wind generators (bit of a missnomer...but you know what I mean!) ruin the landscape... Then they drive ino the country on a Sunday to some picturesque village to look at a wind mill or watermill!!! ...they just don't get it!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I find the both the new and old impressive...the new ones are quite cracefull and somehow soothing and soporific...zzzzzzzzzzzzz

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#24
In reply to #3

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 11:57 AM

One problem i would perceive with this plan is the high incident of flying rodent strike on wind power projects. This has adversely effect projects in California even after they have been constructed and operational. Just one influenza infested pigeon and environmental activists will be right on that project (a few more and you'll make the news). I myself view it as vector control, since all birds are carriers of influenza and bats sometimes carry rabies (and other diseases), but I am not sure how you make the argument for vector control when the news is showing a photoshop modified image of a eagle hacked up by one of the rotors.

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#4

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 10:57 AM

Interesting article, the power provided would be great due to the clean energy, however im not sure how the political aspect of the project would go over. The ADK park has that 'forever wild' catch 22 clause of way back when. Heck they park and industry argue about cell towers along the northway, building is highly regulated in this area bcuz its a national park.

The interesting note the article mentioned was that the area to be used is already semi- developed bcuz of the ski resort, and former mine co on the backside of the mtn. Has enviromental studies been done to determine the efficiency of the wind turbines? If they were installed would they produce enough electricity to be of use...

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#5

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 2:44 PM

The most relevant issue for me is whether or not the benefit derived from the turbines is greater than the loss of the use of the land. Also, I'm of the opinion that even the best laid plans can have disastrous outcomes when we mess with nature. Anything we do to disrupt the "natural order" of things will ultimately have consequences. Clearly, I'm no scientist, but I am practical. I say if all the turbines do is change the look of the landscape, I can live with that. Any other changes to the environment MUST be weighed carefully.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 2:50 PM

Loss of land ? A couple of square metres per tower.

Man is part of the natural order, our use of tools is natural...

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#7
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Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 3:03 PM

Darn this American educational system! I need my ruler. I'll get back to you.

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#8
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Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 3:13 PM

Tools? Some tools (guns, bombs, etc.) are destructive. Where does it end? Shouldn't a natural consideration be the cost (human or otherwise)? I'm a "greatest good for the greatest number" kind of person. (Okay, sometimes it's just about me.)

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 4:05 PM

Yeh..we are in danger of getting philosophical here... I could end up sounding like 'I don't give a damn' which is way off the mark...

I would just argue that using our wits in the best way for what we perceive as the common good is the best way forward...ok people don't want to conserve power, drive sensible cars etc...so the power is needed...which is better an (arguably) beautiful wind turbine or a coal powered/nuclear station? I know where my vote is.

The gun/bomb this is v true but really just illustrates that nature is red in tooth and claw, us included........... If we weren't an aggressive species would we still be on the planet?

Please don't read me wrongly on that... I'm very non violent, but would be willing to hunt food to eat. (Or indeed eat a dead animal that I came across...once had swan and chips..but that's another story....)

Sorry I'm rambling now...

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#9

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 3:55 PM

Very informative article. This local situation has global relevance. We are such visual creatures that sometimes we can only see what our eyes will let us, and not beyond that. People are ruining the landscape through pollutants that may not be so visible, but are extremely harmful. Is it all about the visual landscape? Do people SEE the gas emissions from their car and their direct effects on the environment. It may not be as visible as a 400 ft. wind turbine, but if people look hard enough they will see the negative effects and hopefully realize that it's only logical to sacrafice what might be the ideal landscape in order to preserve it for years to come.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 4:10 PM

We are such visual creatures that sometimes we can only see what our eyes will let us, and not beyond that.

Surely the thing that distinguishes us from the other creatures is that we can visualise stuff which we cannot see. I believe our ability to construct (in our minds eye) a view from a view point other than the actual point where we are standing is deemed to be unique....

Dunno if it's true, but as an artist and engineer it is invaluable.

Oh dear I'm sounding terribly argumentative tonight..... Hope you see it as discussion not arguing!

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#12
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Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 4:14 PM

I agree with your general drift....I was just commenting on the 'seeing' thing...

...

(Note to self:- read more ...write less..D'oh)

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#13
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Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/09/2007 4:30 PM

Yes, the ability to see might set us apart. I was referring to one's choice to ignore an issue and therefore not see it because one simply doesn't want to. Sometimes the same person who wants clean water will also luxurize in driving a gas guzzling motorboat. Maybe not the best metaphor, but the day is winding down, and I am too!

Cheers--

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#14

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 1:35 AM

So much of the issue is NIMBYism (Not In My BackYard), pure and simple. Perhaps you've heard the flap about the offshore wind turbines in New England, offshore from the Kennedy compound (the Kennedys are widely known as Green proponents, but they oppose this project), as in 5 1/2 MILES OFFSHORE. Might compromise the ocean view (barely visible on the horizon), and multi-million dollar oceanfront property values.

As I see it, some compromise is required by everyone, everywhere. That includes every State (in my case, Province), AND rich people.

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#18
In reply to #14

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 8:35 AM

This is the problem exactly. Off Cape Cod in MA, an idea was proposed to put enough turbines to power the entire region and sell the surplus energy to surrounding regions. As soon as it was proposed everyone was up in arms. Even the "green" folk put anti wind farms stickers on their Prius's. Pessimistic views went flying, they are ugly, they can leak oil into the water, the private company building them will abandon everything if at a loss.

http://www.buzzardsbay.org/windfarms.htm

A few miles away in Hull, MA a turbine was built. http://www.hullwind.org/ It powers most of the town during peak windy hours and surplus energy is sold to the neighbors in off peak. The only complaint they have is with all the birds that are killed flying into the blades. All in all, the people there love it!

I'd let someone build one on my land in return for free electricity! Damn, why are people so stupid?

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#29
In reply to #18

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/11/2007 11:40 AM

These really big turbines turn so slowly (several seconds for a single revolution) that birds can easily avoid them. The low blade speeds also make the blades virtually silent. The only noise they make is from the gears that increase the speed for the generators.

I stopped and got out of the car on multiple occasions to observe them in Denmark, and did not find the noise at all objectionable, and saw zero evidence of bird kills. I had to stop the engine to hear them at all from inside the car. I'd love to have one in my back yard!

Dick

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#15

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 6:52 AM

Considering how much wind is around the place. Wind turbines seem like a logical solution. And hey they may be a bit of a disruption on the landscape, but when you consider what damage other alternatives such as coal etc do to the landscape I think this is really a small price to pay.

Anyways, if they combined them with some of this technology (Really efficient generator) we could make devices that aren't so large and imposing.

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#16

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 7:55 AM

"According to the U.S.Depatment of Energy (DOE), if just 3 of the 50 states turned to wind power, it would be enough to power the entire nation." I haven't seen this statement published. Exactly where does it come from? Which 3 states would they need to be? Does it mean that the the 3 chosen states would be so saturated with wind turbines that the land could be used for nothing else? If technology can meet its goals, I believe they should be given an opportunity, if they can't deliver the goods, they should pack up and leave the land as it was. They should not expect to be subsidized by taxpayer funds if they can not live up to their promises.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 8:26 AM

I agree... this statement was a little confusing.

Also... as someone who frequents the Adirondacks at least 2 or 3 times a year... the thought of windmills there is awful. I know the whole argument of global warming and if we don't do it... then we'll all fry the earth...

The problem with the global warming argument is I have heard arguements from "scientists" that preach that we are 90% responsible and "scientists" that preach that we are 1% possible (and nothing we can do). I am not a climatologist and both sides have seemed pretty reasonable.

Alls that i know is I don't want to see the windmills in the Adirondacks.

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#21
In reply to #17

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 9:34 AM

>Alls that i know is I don't want to see the windmills in the Adirondacks.

The question to ask is where will our energy come from?

Wouldn't it be great if there were no consequences to the way we live our lives? You bet! Too bad that simply cannot be. Business as usual is a crappy energy policy; we may have to make actual sacrafices to maintain a standard of living that we can live with.

I am ashamed of what is going on in my home-state of MA, and I don't want that for NY, my home for the last twenty years.

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#19

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 8:38 AM

In a few hundred years everyone will think they are quaint and chaming and wealthy NY'ers will be buying 'em up to convert into weekend retreats....

Don't laugh folks you just know it's true!

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#20

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 9:21 AM

With all the land in this country they have to select a site for wind turbines in a protected nature area??? And which side of a mountain is the backside? Doesn't it depend on where you're standing? I believe the corner of 42nd & broadway in NYC has an average windspeed of 18 MPH.

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#22
In reply to #20

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 9:37 AM

A decent "average wind-speed" is a lot trickier to find that you would think... the gusts that we humans notice just don't count when what you need is constant wind.

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#23

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 9:51 AM

I don't know why people think they are ugly...

In Harlow we have a really old church on one side of the road and about 100yds away is a large stainless steel sculpture...I've heard people moaning that the sculpture is an eyesore... but the Church is man made too...just 'cos its a few hundred years old...No one would think of saying the church is an eysore.

People make such arbitary judgements ..my neighbour complains obout blossom falling on her garden in the spring and leaves falling in Autumn (fall) ! Gasp...get a grip !

I think she wants to live in a multistorey carpark or a mall....drifts slowly off thread and sinks into the sunset mumbling...

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#25

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 12:29 PM

Friends--

Much of what we perceive as "natural" around us has actually been modified by human interactions in the past, such as by introducing different species, or intentional fires, etc. I have visited the Tehachapi and Altamont mountain passes in California, where wind farms with many smaller and lower turbines have been installed for a number of years. These were not ugly.

Since then the technology and equipment have been developed to the point that energy can be produced from lower wind speeds. Also, larger turbines have a lower installed cost per kW or kWh of energy produced. Although with increased height there is increased visibility from a distance, yet the availability of many more locations can reduce the density in any one, and also with increased height comes a higher average wind speed.

Yes, there are complaints about injury or death to birds, but the larger turbines rotate at lower speeds, so a blade is passing through a particular space in air once for every 30-feet of air that blows by it (assuming 15 rpm, 15 mph wind, and 3 blades per turbine). Yes, there are complaints of vibration and low-frequency sound, but the size and strength of the towers needed to support the very large weight of the generator and withstand the wind's forces will damp most vibrations, and blade design is improving each year.

The proposal is worth doing. Reasons: 1) the area has had previous significant environmental changes; 2) the proposed use is virtually non-polluting; 3) it would displace many pollutants from other forms of electric power generation; 4) the wind speed is very good; 5) wind is available around the clock (compared to solar for PV), so it would supply base as well as peak load; 6) a group of turbines over a region would provide diversity so that fluctuations in power output would be reduced.


--John M.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 1:21 PM

WOW - that all sounds unnatural to me. Then put one in your backyard.

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#27
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Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 2:36 PM

How many things can we say are natural, but we seem to enjoy the benefits of the technology without ever thinking about the people or other resources that were required to produce it? I'd put a wind turbine in my backyard, paint it a bright color, and call it art if it provided the electricity I needed. I've got nothing back there but grass anyway (and not the smoking kind). That would be my small contribution toward making this planet a better place for our children. I may be tilting at windmills , but I think we have a responsibility to future generations to devise solutions for some of the problems we've generated. (I'm so punny today.)

The first time I went to Spain, I was on a bus with students and we passed a field of turbines. I thought it was someone's idea of art, somewhat like the artist Christo's projects with which I am a little familiar. The bus driver finally told me they were windmills. (D'oh!)

PEACE!

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#28
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Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

08/10/2007 3:25 PM

Most people would say that the Adirondacks are natural. Our children need to inherit the special areas set aside for them that are minimally impacted from man. A place to go to immerse yourself in nature without the eyesores. A large tract of turbines may be art to one person but but an abomination to another. You may love the turbine in your backyard but your neighbor may not. (don't forget about zoning issues). There are vast areas of industrial, commercial & residential blight in this country that can be reclaimed, rebuilt and are suitable for wind turbines. Leave our public lands alone.

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#31
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Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

09/27/2007 6:54 PM

Wind turbines are non polutting and the area of land proposed according to the writer is an an old mine site zoned for industrial use. Legally some one could build a coal fired power station steel mill or whatever on the site. Surely a few wind turbines is a far better outcome than a lot of other options. I agree with the statement elsewhere that national parks should not be comercialised. However this is not a National Park

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#30

Re: The Adirondack Wind Energy Park

09/22/2007 10:37 PM

I drove throught this area a few weeks ago and wondered about the protest yard signs protesting the turbines.

I think there is plenty of other places to site wind turbines that they don't need to be in national parks.

I am curious about the first statement in the post, if just 3 of the 50 states would turn to wind power it would be enough to power the nation? Texas, Colorado, California, Iowa, and Wyoming to name a few all have wind farms.... But you are talking a lot of turbines to power the nation, that is not going to happen. The maintenance cost alone is a nightmare. Especially the current designs that are full of gears and bearings. They are now starting to use direct drive generators which will help, but then you still have blade wear, lightning strikes, etc.

The company I work for operates several large wind farms, and there is no profit in it at this point, and lots of maintenance expense.....

Wind is not the answer, although it helps, in my opinion nuclear is a much better alternative....

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