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Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

Posted May 31, 2023 12:00 AM
Pathfinder Tags: challenge question

You are at an empty playground on a hot day. You place your glass of water on the playground's merry-go-round (aka carousel or roundabout) and begin to spin it.

What happens first: does the glass slide off, does the glass fall and water spill, or does the water splash out of the glass?

What factors or principles are at play in your reasoning?

ANSWER, 6.26.23

There are 3 important factors at play. Kudos to those who identified all 3.

  • How full the glass of water is.
  • How 'slippery' the surface of the carousel is (i.e., friction)
  • The shape of the glass, including its resting surface area.

As the carousel begins to slowly spin, first the centrifugal force will begin to increase the level of water on the outward side of the glass. It will begin to splash out, but only if the glass is (1) full enough and (2) of a shape that permits it. A glass with a convex lip, like a stemless wine glass, will retain water longer.

The carousel speeds up, and what occurs next depends on if the centrifugal force will can overcome the standing friction of the carousel surface and glass bottom. If yes, the glass will begin to slide until it falls off the edge. If no, the center of gravity of the water is likely to move far enough outward that the glass spills right on the carousel. Much depends on the carousel material; most are painted steel, making the sliding scenario most likely.

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#1

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

05/31/2023 3:18 AM

If the glass is full the first thing that happens is that water flows over the edge of the glass. If there is a big enough gap so that the water does not flow over the edge, then the first thing that happens depends on the coefficient of friction between the glass and the surface it's resting on, and, the centre of gravity of the glass.

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#2

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

05/31/2023 9:41 AM

The force F is proportional to distance r from the center x speed of rotation.

F is opposed by static friction S which increases with F until it reaches a limit Smax.

If F > Smax before something else happens, the glass slides off.

F and S form a couple, Torque, T, of two opposing forces that are not in a line. Whether T can turn the glass over depends on the ratio of the width of the glass and the height of the center of gravity.

How close the glass is to full determines whether it will spill out the top, assuming that it hasn't turned over or slid off. The water surface will assume the shape of a paraboloid of revolution.

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#13
In reply to #2

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/26/2023 8:54 AM

Really good answer. First to consider glass shape. Also details the shape the water will assume. Huzzah!

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#3

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

05/31/2023 11:45 AM

I'd say the glass slides off....the well worn bare metal surface of the merry-go-round against the smooth glass bottom of the glass, does not provide enough friction to hold the glass from sliding off with minimal force, unless the glass is an odd shape and is top heavy or something...It's most likely that being on a hot day you probably have drank the greater portion of the water, before discarding it....On the other hand if the surface is diamond plate or some other rough surface, and the glass is over half full, it's likely the glass would tip over...The higher the center of gravity of the glass, the less force it takes to tip, the weaker the drag force holding the bottom of the glass the more likely to slide...the lower the profile of the glass and the higher the friction of the surface the more likely the water to spill out...

...or there could be a lip on the edge of the surface tipping the glass...

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In reply to #3

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/26/2023 8:55 AM

Another good reply. First answer to consider if the glass has an unusual shape, which does unmentioned in the challenge.

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#4

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

05/31/2023 10:59 PM

Without more complete information about coefficient of friction, how full, etc. I would have to say that centripetal acceleration would cause the liquid to flow up the outside edge of the glass, essentially raising the CG and causing the glass to tip over. This is similar to a tanker truck that is partially full going around a corner and flipping when the CG shifts.

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#5

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

05/31/2023 11:14 PM

It all depends upon how the glass with water is anchored to the carousel. If it is stuck at oerifery in a vertical position, water in it would assume horizontal position, with most of it spilling out, if the speed is considerable .

If held between two ginger's near the top, with freedom to tilth, then the glass would be near horizontal but water in tact.

If the glass is just placed, it would fall due to centrifugal force.

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#6

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/01/2023 6:26 AM

So many variables. Depending on the friction between the glass & ride, it might just slip. If it does not slip, depending on how full the glass is, the water might ride up the glass & spill or, if it is a tall glass with a high CofG, it might just tip over.

Most likely, some small child will jump on the ride & knock it over.

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#7

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/01/2023 6:41 AM

A lot of variables here.How fast is the carousel accelerated?How much water is in the glass?How close is the glass to the edge?All of these and more factors determine the ultimate result,but the first thing to happen is the water will displace to the outer edge of the glass,and up the side, and how high it goes up the side will depend on the initial acceleration,the final velocity and the amount of water in the glass.

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#8

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/01/2023 7:11 AM

What - ignoring relativistic effects as negligible?

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#9
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Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/01/2023 7:47 AM

The carousel is not moving unless someone is observing it,and for how long they are observing it.

The human eye has a retinal memory of approximately 10ms,so if a properly timed strobe light is directed at the carousel,it would appear stationary,however,the water would"know" and show the effect of the g force first.

The carousel is in a superposition of existing and not existing until observed,like the proverbial cat.

I cant see it,so it must not exist yet,only the image of it.

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#10

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/04/2023 9:15 AM

Depends on a number of things, mainly the friction between glass and merry-go-round surface, whether the glass is full, and the shape of the glass. With various combinations, it could do any of the 3 options given.

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#11

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/05/2023 11:28 AM

A kid takes the glass and drinks all of the water. She then says to my flabbergasted face "Thanks, mister. I was thirsty. Will you push this for me?"

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#12

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/13/2023 8:12 AM

Since it is specifically mentioned that it is a hot day, the first thing that happens might be that the water starts boiling - or is it not that hot? If it boils it might spill a little over the edge, capillary creeping under the glass, significantly reducing the friction.

Even if the boiling temperature is not reached, the temperature might further be of influence on the viscosity of the water and the the friction between the glass and the metal surface. It all comes down to comparing the numbers...

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#15

Re: Water on the Carousel (June 2023 challenge question)

06/27/2023 11:31 AM

But what if one uses a half-filled martini glass?

I doubt any glass would slide. What engineer of a play yard carousel would design the floor of the surface with a low sliding coefficient of friction? The one pictured has a rusty diamond plate, hardly a slick surface. I doubt even a rock's glass would slide on that surface.

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