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Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

Posted January 28, 2008 9:22 AM

From SPACE.com:

Squarks, photinos, selectrons, neutralinos. These are just a few types of supersymmetric particles, a special brand of particle that may be created when the world's most powerful atom smasher goes online this spring. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at a particle physics lab called the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva, Switzerland, will very likely change our understanding of the universe forever. The 17-mile-long underground particle accelerator will send protons flying around its circular track until they smash into each other going faster than 99 percent of the speed of light.

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Guru
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#1

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

01/28/2008 4:11 PM

It's a shame those Eurosparticles won't have "Made in Texas" stamped on them.

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#2

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

01/29/2008 6:05 PM

Yes, it is an impressive instrument. Its price is in line with that.

While I do not denigrate such an accomplishment any way, I place my bet on the Wakefield Accelerator (google) or by other name Plasma Accelerator (Wikipedia). This method produces accelerations equal to the big guys in a "tabletop" model on a university lab budget. For example, reaching 1GeV energy in a linear one takes about 64meters, in contrast the Wakefield reaches it in 3.3cm (that is a 2000 times advantage). The price is computational complexity: doing the acceleration in a thin plasma requires sorting out plenty of extraneous signals. I firmly believe, that on this basis lots of discoveries will be done with this "tabletop" models, while the precision work will be done on the "big guy".

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#3

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

01/30/2008 1:25 AM

The description of <"going faster than 99 percent of the speed of light"> is a misnomer.

After all, this Planet we are on, and all on it, is travelling at the speed of light, relative to an observer somewhere else.

Speed is always relative to an observer, and each observer is entitled to assume that they are observing from a fixed frame of reference.

Kind Regards....

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

01/30/2008 10:35 AM

After all, this Planet we are on, and all on it, is travelling at the speed of light, relative to an observer somewhere else.

Where would this other observer be, exactly?

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

02/07/2008 5:58 PM

Hello bhankiii

As stated: Somewhere else = elsewhere.

The Theory of Relativity is often incredibly misunderstood.

Each Observer is entitled to assume that theirs is the fixed frame of reference.

If you don't assume that as an observer, your measurements have no validity.

That is why the problem of the twin clocks is so often misunderstood too. (It is not really a problem at all, just a misunderstanding of Relativity)

Identical clocks with an observer with each clock, will note that the other clock and observer, appear to be travelling slower.

But to somehow decide that the clocks are mutually and equally ticking slower than each other, is impossible, that way lieth insanity.

So, the clocks appear to be slower, but really they are not slower at all, just a'ticking along, at the same rate.

So, because each observer is assuming that they have the fixed frame of reference, all measurements are Relative to each observer.

That is what Einstein realised, and why he called it the "Theory of Relativity".

The Universe, along with everything in it, works in a logical manner, except people, sometimes.....

Kind Regards....

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

02/07/2008 6:04 PM

Yeah - that's the theory. My question is, where in the universe is the observer that sees Earth zooming away at the speed of light? I'm not aware that we are moving that fast relative to anything in the universe, except possibly, light. Which galaxy, star or planet is this observer sitting on?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

02/07/2008 6:28 PM

Hello again bhankiii

Because we are speeding away from that observer at the speed of light, relative to him, to us he would appear that he is speeding away at the speed of light, relative to us.

In both cases, we are undetectable to each other, since light is the fastest thing we know of, therefore we have no other means of detecting anything which is travelling faster relative to the observer or to us.

Hope that assists.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

02/07/2008 6:42 PM

I'll try again:

After all, this Planet we are on, and all on it, is travelling at the speed of light, relative to an observer somewhere else.

Please define the physical location of "somewhere else". Your supposition is that there is another planet, somewhere, that is moving away from the Earth (and visa versa) at or very near the speed of light. I maintain that no such physical body has ever been shown to exist. If such an object does exist, I'd like to know about it. That's my question.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

02/07/2008 6:54 PM

Hello again bhankiii

Evidently you did not understand my previous post.

That observer is not detectable by us, nor us by him, because of our divergent speed, relative to each other.

I did not anywhere say the observer was on a Planet, (That is your assumption, but such a location is possible), and you would never be able to discover the place where the observer is located, because nothing travels faster than the speed of light, relative to each observer.

You are correct when you state: <"I maintain that no such physical body has ever been shown to exist."> and of course as I explained earlier, we could never know about it, at all.

Kind Regards....

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

02/08/2008 9:57 AM

No, I understand perfectly.

If this:

That observer is not detectable by us, nor us by him, because of our divergent speed, relative to each other.

is true, then this:

After all, this Planet we are on, and all on it, is travelling at the speed of light, relative to an observer somewhere else.

is false, since there can be no observer without observation.

But let's set aside the issue of whether we could actually observe the observer from which we appear to be moving at the speed of light.

My only point is that I'm not aware of any theory of the universe that postulates that the earth is moving at the speed of light relative to anything that could be reasonably called an observer.

If you had said:

After all, this Planet we are on, and all on it, is travelling at the speed of light, relative to an observer somewhere else on earth.

I would say that statement is demonstrably false, since there is no place on the earth from which the earth appears to be traveling at the speed of light.

If you had said:

After all, this Planet we are on, and all on it, is travelling at the speed of light, relative to an observer somewhere else in this solar system.

I would say that statement is demonstrably false, since there is no place in this solar system from which the earth appears to be traveling at the speed of light.

If you had said:

After all, this Planet we are on, and all on it, is travelling at the speed of light, relative to an observer somewhere else in this galaxy.

I would say that statement is demonstrably false, since there is no place in this galaxy from which the earth appears to be traveling at the speed of light, with the possible exception of matter at the event horizon of the black hole at its center, and in that case said observer is annihilated at the point the earth appears to reach the speed of light.

If you had said:

After all, this Planet we are on, and all on it, is travelling at the speed of light, relative to an observer somewhere else in this universe.

I would say that statement is demonstrably false, since there is no place in this universe (that I am aware of) from which the earth appears to be traveling at the speed of light.

And, if I'm incorrect in this belief, I'd like to be shown the theoretical basis for why I am incorrect.

If your only point is that such a thing may exist in the realm of theoretical or philosophical possibility, not actuality, then we can agree. Otherwise, show me the money.

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#11

Re: Smash! The Search for 'Sparticles'

03/26/2008 11:51 AM

As the doomsayers are still complaing about the Large Hadron Collider.....

(Thanks to xkcd, THE webcomic....)

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