Missile-Proofing Runways

Great Video Clip, Good to see so much progress, lets see even more. A big thank you to all the dedicated folk that have made this possible. A life saver, Be very proud.

Some say the best defence is a good offence, but really, the best defence is to be inoffensive. And it let's you spend your money on health care for your citizens.

But just to follow the standard line - if you have a laser it won't be long before everyone has one. Since you can shoot down all those missiles, what would that weapon do to a 767?

Be afraid, be very afraid!

I have a sneaking suspicion the tracking system of this new anti-ballistic defence system could pin point the position the offending missile was launched from. Read what you like into that observation.

No doubt. That kind of tracking has been around for quite a while.

My suggestion was that what the US can invent others can copy. When the M-whatever Colt automatic rifle was to be introduced in Viet Nam, some say cases of them were on their way to Ireland BEFORE the U.S. Marines got their first shipment. So... following on with that precedent, if the laser is to be deployed, it's likely to appear on the 'black market' a few months prior to delivery to legitimate forces.

Therefore my question stands: What would the effect of the laser be on the 767 (or 777, or even a Messerschmidt, I mean Airbus) assuming the 'owner' of the weapon was not interested in airport security.

A very good point and well made too. jdst. The answer is "Give me the boy, I will show you the man".....This madness has to be dealt with yesterday. we can't do that, but today and tomorrow will become the future's yesterdays. The winner of the final battle wins the war, as they say. If you lose the battle for 'Hearts and Minds' after a victory, the war never ends. It is a very old conundrum. Grievances can last for centuries, even Milena.

The founding fathers of America warned against forming alliances of any permanent kind. America is essentially a trading nation. A trading nation must maintain friendly relations with everyone. The only reason the United Kingdom has what is called a 'special relationship' with America, is because so much American blood was sacrificed for our own freedom. The debt is one-way, not the other. It is the whole world, not just America, that must share the cost and burden of Police work. Uncle Sam can build the bridges, so to speak, but all must cross that bridge, and find that promised land of peace and prosperity.

Ok, so after the bad guys have a laser then it won't be long before we have one too. I'm not so sure your thoughts will deter the so called bad guys from building one, thinking that if they build one we are going to build one. So since they are going to build one anyway as soon as they are able, why shouldn't we be the first with the biggest and strongest and the lead time to make sure ours is always the biggest and the strongest. Non-preliferation doesn't seem to be working among the N Koreans or the Iranians or the Pakistanis or the Israelis. Anybody with money and brains and desire will build them eventually.

Our proclamation not to build a laser defense, or offensive system for that matter, will set a shining example for the entire rest of the world to follow for which most will just laugh at us for our naivety.

We are the leaders of the free world. Why do you think Al Qaeda chose us for the 911 attack. They didn't pick France or Germany or England or Switzerland or Norway or Sweden or any of the other free world countries to attack. They chose us because they were most threatened by us and are totally against a democratic lifestyle. The freedom to choose.

And yes I am afraid, very afraid, but not about lasers.

sail4ever you wrote:-

" And yes I am afraid, very afraid, but not about lasers."

Don't be.

Just be 'concerned'

It was jdst who said be afraid with regards laser technology.

I'm more "concerned" with nuclear proliferation than I am with lasers

But lets not overlook that the lasers available that provoked this thread have a range of 1.8 miles and the equipment requires 3 large size trucks. I don't see terrorists pulling up to an airport and setting up shop with one of these. These are not manpads.

Of course if we extrapolate 10 years down the road, well all bets are off. It's anybodies guess.

Three large trucks within a mile of an airport is absolutely simple. having them parked side-by-side so wiring can be accommodated, equally simple.

There are much easier ways to stop airports.

Ho Ho....Extrapolate ten years and I think 'terrorists' will be the ones that are 'terrified'......Good point about Walkabout Nukes, I was very uncomfortable about the mysterious death of Mr. Litvenenko. Po-210 at 250 billion times the toxicity of cyanide is the raving lunatic fanatic's poison of choice. But Po-210 is just what is needed to restore an old KGB suitcase nuke to life. Tut Tut 135 were made, 84 were not returned, with the 139 day half life of the neuton initiator, the device is defunct after three months most. A sensible design. their deployment was intended for sterilisation of biological hazard leaks. (Lebed).....Po-210 also spalls off microscopic dust particles, so Litvenenko may have been mixing with some dodgy traders? Who knows.

Just cover your missiles (Or airplaines for that case.) with tiny mirrors and we've just rendered this defense or offense pretty much useless. As long as the mirrors are clean and light enougn. Granted air traffic controllers would have trouble bringing in giant disco balls with wings. But its an Idea.

I'm sure you have all read about the invisibility cloak that works 2 dimensionally in a lab already. They say they will have a 3D working prototype in 3 or 4 years. Using nanotechnology, incoming radiation is passed around the skin covered with the nano particles as if it isn't there like water flowing around a rock in a stream. The test design working now is with microwave radiation, all of a specific wavelength.

They say the problem with a visible light cloak is the multitude of wavelengths all at the same time. However laser light being one very specific wavelength, coherent, just guessing now, would just as easily be deflected around an object as the microwave radiation rendering the laser ineffective against such a target so protected.

Love it,.... 'Liberace' would have insisted his private jumbo jet was a big glitter ball. but remember the mirrors placed on the moon, they directed the laser back to base. In a 'Road Runner' cartoon caper, 'Coyote's' Acme Laser would bounce back and you would see him frazzled with smoke rising from his burnt fur.

jdst says, "Some say the best defence is a good offence, but really, the best defence is to be inoffensive."

Sorry, jdst, I can not agree with you on that point. When you are dealing with a group of people who have publicly declared that their goal is to slaughter every "infidel" who does not have the same religious beliefs as they do, it will do absolutely no good to cower down and try to be "inoffensive." The only thing people like that understand is power that is greater than theirs and willingness to use that power to defend against them. Just as with a pack of angry dogs, any display of fear will only encourage them to attack.

Rather than fearing them and trying to be "inoffensive," we must do everything we can to counter their attacks. Every time they come up with a new idea about how to terrorize us, we must quickly come up with a new idea about how to oppose their latest threat -- not just whimper a little and submit to them. Otherwise, they win and we will either be exterminated or be enslaved to their every whim.

These people have no intention whatever of giving up their objective of converting those who can be converted and killing the rest. If we play possum and try to be inoffensive to them, they will only be encouraged and will never stop their crusade.

Whether or not we wish to believe it, we are in a world-wide war of ideologies. The quicker we accept this fact and begin to act on it, the better our chances of survival.

The bad guys have not and do not build anything, haven't you noticed. Not even bicycles are made by them. All they want to do is use weapons built by the good guys against good guys.

There is no way a third world bad guy can maintain or use one of these laser defense units without western help. Stop being afraid.

Good guys need to focus on the good things, not focus on what the bad guys might or might not do. Good guys will never be able to think exactly like the bad guys or anticipate all of their evil plans.

Sir

I honor the motive behind your comment, "the best defence is to be inoffensive" and even agree with it. But I question the pragmatic value of the statement.

Do you really believe that implementing that kind of behavior will cause all the BAD NASTIES in the world to let you live in peace? My life experience indicates that such will be the case only if you have absolutely nothing that anyone else wants to take away from you. And that is, of course, a personal life style choice--hardly applicable to a nation I fear.

Here is a quotation that I like just as much and that seems more applicable to the world we live in..."Speak softly and carry a big stick".

And I REALLY, REALLY like that other one..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

Just a comment.

Ishurtle,

I commend you on your response to "being inoffensive" as a defense. Your reponse was much more civilized than mine. I, too, believe in "walk softly and carry a big stick" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Another principle in which I believe is to turn the other cheek when you have been smitten. However, if you turn the other cheek and your adversary smites it too, it is time to consider that what you are doing may not be working.

A friend sent me this quote from 'Scandanavia'

Rettloeti Gotanna Fallegt er;

Lik Fullkomnu Modurinni;

Mjog Voent,

Mjog nakvoemlegt.

Translated:- "The Justice of the Gods is beautiful; Like the perfect mother; VERY KIND also VERY CORRECT.

Its an interesting technology, but If this can be used to detonate incoming hostile rockets, would it also be able to detonate munitions or other incendiaries on fighter aircraft as well?

Just a thought...

It's of interest know differents points of view but I would like view some other europeans. What they think?

Good talking points all. But one thing about terrorists is they use hit and run tactics. This type of laser is not a light generated laser but a chemical laser. It would take too much time for a terrorists group to deploy, setup, and execute just for one or two aircrafts kills. Terrorists are more interested in achieving as many casualties with the least effort possible. That's why suicide bombings are so frequent. It would be more simple just to shoot down a few aircrafts using STINGER ( a shoulder launched MANPADS) missiles then get out of town than the use of this type of laser.

For more information on a weapon system of this type look here. https://www.boeing.com/

This whole thread started with lasers to shoot down manpads and then went to if you have a laser to shoot down manpads then your enemy will have lasers and if they have lasers why don't they just use the lasers to shoot down the planes. That was my point when I said getting 3 big trucks near an airport with $100,000,000 worth of equipment to shoot down a few planes would be impractical. Plus the equipment would be very tracable back to the government that built and financed it. History has shown that this would be deemed an act of war.

Iran did give Hezbollah the silkworm missles that hit the Israeli boats but that was an actual war. I think we are still talking terrorism here not WW4

As you saw from the Boeing link the plane mounted laser that has the range to shoot down other planes as well as Ballistic missiles is still 2 years away from flight tests. I don't think terrorists will ever have access to that kind of technology. Maybe in the movies. Clint Eastwood hijacked Firefox in 1982.

Just an insight, Dr. Aziz Al-Abub who is/was the mentor of Osama Bin Laden, was trained in the old Soviet Union in techniques of mind control enhanced by psychotic drugs. Every suicide bomber is given a big dose of methamphetamine and methyl amphetamines (or similar euphoric + stimulant) The selected candidates have to have suffered a major traumatic episode, preferably when young. Dr Aziz Al-Abul was no exception himself. The methods employed to destroy the most fundamental instinct of self preservation, are very brutal and involve 'regression' techniques and 'hypnotic suggestion'

Dr. Aziz Al-Abub suffers from occasional epileptic fits. His own Egyptian doctor reported to western intelligence that he went to fetch Aziz Al-Abub in his car during one of these episodes, and had to leave him for just a few moments to talk to a colleague. Dr. Aziz Al-Abub jumped into the driving seat, grabbed the steering wheel and made engine noises "brrrm brrrm" ... "honk honk" while turning the steering wheel.

So Fact....He goes to the old Soviet Union to learn? mind control techniques by hypnotic regression etc.......I suspect a bloody good job was done on Dr. Aziz Al-Abub himself, by the old Soviets. By all accounts this is the 'Mastermind' of 911. he is proud of his role in the October 1983 Beirut bombings. where American Peacekeepers were shamefully slaughtered......These are the fanatics we need to stop.

I guess the not-so-good Dr. is too young to have been "trained" during the late 1950's early 1960's at the Allen Memorial Institute in Montreal under contract from the CIA using LSD and similar hallucinogenics.

Sorry, but I see the guy as a criminal, not a noble combatant, and if there were no havens for these people, they would be caught tried and dealt with much quicker. As long as there are entire countries disadvantaged to the extent they would prefer to have these twits running around inside their borders to arresting and extraditing them, there will be the problem.

Many religions, Christianity for one, speak to conversion, but no major religion speaks to conversion by force. The only time the nits using single holy-book passages to justify murder get a following is when things are so bad the people completely lose hope.

Drugs or no drugs a suicide bomber is a suicide (and often the only guaranteed kill) and one has to be in a susceptible frame of mind to be convinced to take this path to glory.

As to runways, at $100 million a pop, it would be cheaper to make multiple airports than buy a laser defence system.

"As to runways, at $100 million a pop, it would be cheaper to make multiple airports than buy a laser defence system."

Unfortunately it is not the airports or runways in danger but the airplanes using them. More airports make more diverse and harder to protect targets. It is surprising, considering the constant talk about the MANPAD threat that there haven't been any attacks here in the US...knock on wood. 100 million seems like a huge number until you hear the anguish from friends and relatives of a downed airliner.

Good point sail4ever, well said.

'jdst' writes :- "As long as there are entire countries disadvantaged to the extent they would prefer to have these twits running around inside their borders to arresting and extraditing them, there will be the problem."

I am sorry to inform everyone that in a 'tribal' or 'clan' system, the Big Chief wants to remain the Big Chief. If his people become prosperous there are many dangers the Big Chief will have to face. First his people might be able to afford education, they might learn that their big chief was not the biggest chief, they might learn a lot of things the big chief would rather they did not learn. Another problem is there are often many rival claimants to the 'Chiefdom' itself. Old family and tribal feuds etc. i.e. a bona fide chief went abroad and was presumed dead, then returned...blah blah. Usually these 'Pretenders' to the tribal throne are kept powerless by keeping them poor.

Democracy in most of Africa is a joke. They might as well count the Tribal Chief's vote in direct proportion to the electoral list in his tribal land. Or even simplify the process, as Chiefs dare not vote against their Over-Chieftains. Just extend to the Natiolal Returning Officer and his observers, a cordial invitation to a High Chieftain's dinner, and decide the issue over the meal. A Nigerian General and also a Chief recently complained to a BBC correspondent, that the massive multi billion oil revenues made for an enormous workload, paraphrased, he said; "You have no idea how hard it has now become to keep our subjects impoverished, and those poor fellows that become rich are always miserable, suddenly they discover they have ten thousand relatives."