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Lead-free or Loaded?

Posted July 17, 2009 7:41 AM

Until the reports are handed out, the thought that tin whiskers can cause crashes is only speculation. Yet recent speculation on the Washington D.C transit accident has centered on whether tin whiskers produced in lead-free electronics contributed to intermittent outages in equipment designed to detect nearby trains. Do you think the rush to remove lead from our environment has been well thought out, despite the known health benefits?

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#1

Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/17/2009 10:24 PM

Please explain 'known health benefits of removing lead from electronics.' specifically health benefits, not the wonders of unleaded landfills please.

Please show chronic health issue of todays automated soldering machines.

Who eats electronics parts? Who gets lead poisoning from having a lead soldered device in their control room?

"Health benefits" is a bogus distraction.

Deaths from failures of electronic equipment will continue to accumulate and be "unproven" as root causes because it is taboo to question the wisdom of the gaia worshipers.

Lead has a unique and important role to play in certain applications from an engineering point of view; it is born totally unuseable to the greenpeace bureaucrats who cannot understand avenues of toxicity, reliability, and evaluation of risk.

milo "the military knows that when reliability is important, lead solders are quite acceptable"

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/18/2009 3:31 AM

I remember the good old days when my soldering iron worked.
Promise not to tell, but I have a reel of the old stuff on my bench at work I use it on all my prototypes. shhhhh

Come to think of it this flat screen monitor I'm looking had has just started causing switchon problem, once I've coaxed it into life it's fine...probably some dodgy joint.
Del

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/21/2009 12:54 AM

More joy than me mate, Power supply OK but no light. Done bugger all work too. Initially thought it was caps came unpolarised due to lack of use (happened in a couple of other devices), but nah p/s is OK.

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#3

Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/18/2009 12:11 PM

Milo Is spot-on. I challenge ANYONE to point to a single person who has been lead poisoned due to the use of lead solder.

I can certainly point to people who have died due to the lack of use of it.

I have three rolls around here I use for repair work, and when they are gone I don't know if I'll be able to buy any new. And that pisses me off.

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#6
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Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/19/2009 9:40 AM

...

I can certainly point to people who have died due to the lack of use of it.

...

Is lead solder the new DDT?

But seriously, I can cite at least two nuclear plant trips, before I left the industry, that were attributed to tin whiskers. Emergency shutdown of a plant always increases the likelihood that something else may go wrong.

I think the law of unintended consequences knows no bounds.

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#7
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Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/19/2009 3:41 PM

Lead killed Billy the Kid didn't it
Del

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#8
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Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/19/2009 4:45 PM

No, he developed a severe case of leakage that couldn't be fixed. Lead was merely a slight contributory symptom.

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#10
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Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/21/2009 12:57 AM

Lead was merely the missing trace element needed to cure his violence. Works on Crocs too but copper is better.

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#11
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Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/21/2009 2:57 AM

Wood is fine

Mine's the one in the middle...first arrow kill, 30yards across a pond .
That's the backgound on my works PC at the moment.
Del

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#12
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Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/22/2009 6:34 PM

Quite apt ol' mate.

The buggers are moving in around here and hanging around boat ramps. Crabbing has become an adventure sport. "Medicating" them with metallic trace elements has been outlawed, so maybe it is time for the "organic" approach. What are you and your bow doing next week?

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#14
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Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/29/2009 5:07 AM

To solve the problem of crocs, introduce them into Lake Burley Griffin.

When the pollies have first hand experience of them, they will rapidly allow hunting etc.

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#15
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Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/31/2009 1:29 AM

Ya reckon they'd eat a pollie? If so how about we start with the little charmer who stole our guns. Put him on a hook and use him for bait. Yes pollies and journos would all be much more use to the country once the croc had recycled them.

Del,

Hold off on the organic method until Sceptic gets his turn. After the bad taste maybe they will swear off meat forever.

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#13
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Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/22/2009 7:36 PM

You have croc's on the River Lea?

Learn somethin every day!

milo

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#4

Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/18/2009 12:54 PM

A rather lengthly examination of lead in electronics was issued by ITW Paktron in September of 2005, titled "ITWPaktron Lead Free Study." This examined the issue of lead in electronics and whether or not it was a significant issue in the environment. It referenced many studies over a >25 year period and none of them had shown lead in electronics to be of any concern in the noted areas of pollution. Despite all of these scientific reports to the contrary, the EU went ahead and issued its ruling, putting into motion a huge, expensive boondoggle causing untold trouble and expense in the electronics industry.

Fact: The electronics industry barely accounts for <1% of the world consumption of lead, 98% of lead is used in batteries, of which, nearly all of that is recycled. So, to use an old phrase, "Where is the beef?!!!!"

Fact: There has NEVER been a documented case of lead from electronics getting into ground water from a land fill yet.

Fact: They always use the lame excuse of "better safe than sorry", how about better ignorant than intelligent for an excuse?

Fact: Ignorance and fear are no excuse for stupid laws and regulations!

Fact: Despite the exemption of military and some other electronics, it has become nearly impossible for them to find companies who will produce electronics using the leaded solder, it is not economical for companies to set up two, separate production lines nor is it economically feasible for the military and others to pay the high overhead costs of doing it. Perhaps when we have a fatal 'accident' in space or in our defense networks, someone might wake up! The 'cure' is worse than the 'ill'.

This is not the first time bureaucrats have acted on a perceived threat with little or no scientific basis, it has happened many times in the past with many attempts failing, in this case unfortunately, they did not fail.

I am all in favor of keeping the environment as clean as possible but the use of common sense and science should be observed. Hasn't anyone noticed that lead is an element of Earth, it occurs naturally, is the next move to try and 'clean up' the Earth's entire supply of lead? Knee jerk reactions to a small minority of loud zealots should be prevented. We need to clean up the significant pollution sources, just because a particularly easy target is available is no reason to attack it. In effect, a great many billions of dollars have now been diverted to a insignificant source of pollution while many big polluters are still going merrily on their way.

There has been many failures documented because of lead-free solder, costing many billions of dollars, what more proof do these fools need to show them the error of their ways? When these failures finally cause some significants deaths, perhaps they will listen (I'm not holding my breath!).

I know, I am asking a lot, the use of common sense and intelligence from bureaucrats, the lack thereof has been documented over millennia, but we can always hope.

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#5

Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

07/18/2009 6:17 PM

Good answers guys.

I may add also that the drive to lower voltage might be benificial to the battery powered guys but it is a killer in inductrial application. You now have these 1.2V processors trying to operate near power lines and large swirchers. The noise margins are all gone. You can sneeze and move enough electrons to change the state of a chip lead. Where are the 5V (and 12V) parts gone?

I can only hope that our society will eventually see the light.

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#16

Re: Lead-free or Loaded?

08/03/2009 3:14 AM

Agreed with the comments on Power station trips for tin Whiskers. Also given the scrutiny of these boards, where failure is a REALLY poor option, failures indicate there are other possible areas afected too.

Only case of lead issues associated with use of lead is in Foerign country salvage of board metals to recover Gold where the board is burned releasing the lead along with gold then the poor sap with out any benefit of fresh air, ventallation hood, or respirator stands over this mess and cooks it down to recover the gold. Also involves exposure to Cynaide wiht it's own set of issues.

In general the safeguards for lead protection make routine exposure to lead, which is required for posioning (Time of exposure and Level of contaminant), very unlikely in any modern producion facility.

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Electronic Wiz (2); Emjay4119 (4); heatrate10 (1); marcot (1); Milo (2); mkruger21 (1); Rorschach (1); sceptic (1); user-deleted-1105 (3)

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