Fire Fighter Telephone Outlet (Fireman's Jack) Location

The local Fire Authority has this information on the insides of their eyelids. Use the telephone; it is by far the quickest way of obtaining information pertinent to the locality of the building, which is not stated in the post.

In the U.S.A., where NFPA applies, there are no "one storey" buildings. Quite apart from that, anyone can dial 911 from a cell phone far quicker than they can find some supposedly dedicated "fire fighting telephone outlet", whatever that might be.

Go to the fire station nearest the building and ask them.

Quite.

Most fire fighters here are wire with two way radios. So the fire cheif can maintain awareness of them and get them out if they get in trouble.

The first thing fire fighters do is cut utilities to the building. I don't think they are going to take the time to make the distinction between wires.

Then again NFPA sets guidance. The real code is by the local fire department. Only they will know. So call them.

Set your building on fire and wait for the firemen to arrive.

If they ask you where the fire fighting telephone outlet is, just ask them where they'd like it installed.

If they don't ask, it's not important.

Are you asking about an "Annunciator Panel"?

Sometimes there is a "jack" that firemen use to connect a handset to and they can make announcements to the building sound system.

It has been a while since I've seen one though!

One story buildings (in the USA) are not required to have "a fire fighting telephone outlet", i.e. some method to communicate from the outside or from the inside out. The last time firefighter telephones were required was from the elevator car to the ground floor. This was to communicate to personnel in the car if the elevator should become stuck or if firefighters needed to be communicated to while in the car.

The use of elevators by firefighters is a last resort only to be used in tall buildings and then only to 2 or 3 stories below the fire floor. Often if the fire is near the machine penthouse or the elevator shaft they will be compromised and an extreme danger to use (remember the WTC?).

The telephone has been replaced by the use of VHF/FM portable radios, then UHF radios and now the current use of trunked UHF radios. Except in some dead spots the UHF trunked work superior to others. Now the reason why there are no telephones is that they have gone the way of the Studebaker fire engine, there are far superior ways to dependably communicate. The radios also permit the firefighters to stay in communication with the operations division or other sections while moving from one section of the building to another. This is especially important if a Mayday must be called.

When looking in the NEC (NFPA 70) also look in the index for the hundreds of NFPA codes. There are often no listing in the NEC but some pertinent information in one of the other codes for a specific installation. For example, NFPA 501 is for the standard for Manufactured Housing. Does it include anything about electricity in this type of housing? NFPA 1122 is for Model Rocketry and 1127 is for High Power Rocketry, what is the difference? What does one leave off and the other become applicable?

Good Luck, Old Salt "Firefighter for many years"

Old Salt, Knowing you experience in fire fighting and the applicable code I defer to your expertise. In my post, was there something like what I mentioned or is my memory flawed?

Original MacGyver-

Unless necessary for the use of the building such as commercial, retail, or perhaps industrial in some cases many buildings are not equipped with PA systems. Also firefighters very seldom know how to operate each type of system and at each location. Can you imagine having 50 of these in your primary response area and then having mutual aid fire companies respond when your company is out on another call? Well beyond the capabilities of a fireman. For these reasons the operation of the PA system is utilized by the tenants. They are familiar with how to run the system, its capabilities where it can be heard. Also they can utilize it well in advance of when the fire dept. arrives. Another problem is how do you use it, especially when the tenants are taught to listen to it only for evacuation directions. If the area of the equipment has been compromised it is of no value and personnel may delay their evacuation waiting for it. This was a problem at the WTC bombings.

Now most facilities use very loud warning signals combined with intense flashing lights to notify personnel of a possible fire situation, or other types of emergencies, to evacuate. This is more effective and can be used in noisy areas. In general all people should have already been evacuated before the fire dept. arrives. The more people that are delayed in evacuation the more the fire personnel needs to do longer primary searches and secondary searches. Many fire fighters are killed during these especially in structure fires.

The phones are still used in a few locations but most have been replaced with the automatic indicators (lights and horns) since they are more reliable, faster systems and easier to maintain.

No, your memory is not flawed! There have been many improvements made in the system of alerting people of a dangerous situation. The use of the phone is one of them. The use of 2, 000psi metal cylinders used to provide negative air pressure to (S)elf (C)ontained (B)reathing) (A)pparatus that provide air to firefighters, they have been improved. Now composite cylinders of reinforced fiberglass or carbon fibers filled with air at up to 4,200 psi supply air for longer (twice as much), are lighter, are positive pressure (good air leaks out and not bad air being sucked in) and some have face piece display of cylinder air pressure, minutes of air left and other information just like a jet fighter!

Another advancement is the use (C)ompressed (A)ir (F)oam to put out fires. Water is pumped, foam is added in-line and then compressed air is added as it leaves the pumping system of the vehicle. This technology is only about 20 years old but many have adopted it. One gallon of this replaces the need for 10 gallons of water only use.

In a good year approximately 100 firefighters die in (L)ine (O)f (D)uty (D)eath incidents. Usually 20 to 50 people loose their lives in residential fires each week. Anything that gets people out of fire building and reduces the number of firefighters that have to go into the buildings is well worth it.

Annunciator panels are still here but you would probably wouldn't recognize them. The largest telecommunications company has a "facility", they still won't tell what it's core use is, and has a system out of Jules Verne. The building is divided up into sections which are monitored on the panel but the panel also displays a closed circuit tv picture of each part of each section on demand. It also has many other modern features.

Original MacGyver your memory is not flawed. It is very good and knowledgeable. The good thing, which few of these postings show, is that firefighting and all the associated areas have improved so much that are not readily noticed by the general public and some firefighters. Most of the modern systems reduce the loss of firefighters, civilians and property.

I realize this has been quite long, not an unusual thing for me on this subject, but like many things in our world things have changed, hopefully for the better. I hope this has aided you in your knowledge of emergencies and especially fire. Thank you for taking the time to ask an extremely good question!

Good Luck, Old Salt

Old Salt,

The last time I was directly involved with (F)ire (A)larm C()ontrol (P)anel, I worked in operations at a shopping mall in 1991. The food court tenants (particularly the Chinese restaurant) would set off the smoke detectors on a weekly basis.

The detectors were directly linked to the fire alarm which would sound the alarm, start the smoke fans running (4 - 20000 CFM fans that would blow your head off) start the generators and alert the fire dept. After about 4 or 5 times of them setting off the alarm and the Fire dept. responding they were finally cited and fined for the excessive false alarms and the restaurant finally had to upgrade their exhaust system.

I seem to remember that there was a small room on the front steps of the mall off the major street that was closest to the Fire Dept. that had the alarm panel which indicated the particular zone that had set off the alarm. The Fire Dept. had a key to the room or it was in the KNOX box next to the room door. The Chief would access the room before they entered even though they were told it was a false alarm. I think he did that to document the particular zone and who had set off the alarm.

I appreciate the work that the Fire Dept. and Paramedics do.

I'm rambling now. Have a good day and talk soon.

Original MacGyver-

NOT RAMBLINGS! Interesting conversations. Hopefully others can gain from them. Yes, Knox Boxes have replaced the large ring of keys that were carried by the old timers in their days. Another big change for the better. Almost instant access improves the effective response tremendously.

False activations such as your food court are a real expensive, inconvenient and potentially dangerous situations. For the past 10 years there has been an increase in defective smoke alarm runs since many of them are becoming very old and not operating correctly. For the last few years there has been an increases in false activations from Carbon Monoxide alarms. They only have an effective life of 10 years and many were installed about 12 years ago when they became popular. When they came out FIRST ALERT units were mostly defective so there were many false alarms from them. For the fire companies and especially the volunteers they are a real pain in the a$$, especially at 2am.

What many don't realize is that it is expensive to operate a fire company. If it costs $150,000/year, a very small amount compared to actual costs when capital items are considered, and the dept. makes 500 runs per year for a small volunteer group, that is $300/call average. That's what those inconvenient alarms cost the dept. These figures are very conservative. Most towns around me charge on a increasing scale for each false alarm after three of them.

A pumper costs between $350,000 and $750,000, that aerial cost between $750,000 and $1,250,000 and that rescue truck with all its gadgets runs about $350,000 to $750,000. Each vehicle costs more than the average house in the USA!

Many people don't know about the time investment volunteers make for training. Currently in my state the commitments are: Firefighter 1, 180 hrs; Firefighter 2, 80 hours; pump operations, 50 hrs; fire officer 1, 44 hours; fire officer 2, 40 hours; haz mat technician 80 hrs; rail car specialist 40 hours; tank truck specialist 40 hours; ladder truck operations 16 hrs; engine company operations, 16 hrs; and so on. If you want to be a good firefighter, which most want to be, you must make the time commitment for training just as you need the time commitment to be a good engineer in industry. People want their engineers to be good or better than that. The public wants their firefighters to be good or better especially if John Q. Public's life is endangered or their property is about to go up in smoke.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Old Salt has only the scratched the surface of what training is like. Pre fire plans, hydrant testing, equipment testing, equipment cleaning, multi company drills, and department mandated training, are all part of every department's daily activity.

Every penny pinching budget writer wants to know why fire fighters, paramedics, and police get paid so much. There were only 30 fires in the area last year, what did they do the rest of the time? Every one of them needs to spend a full 24 hour shift at a station once a year to see how those boots feel.

A tip of the hat to Old Salt, and a thank you as well. Bob.

bob c-

A tip of the helmet to you and Original MacGyver! Thank you for your excellent and realistic depictions of what life is really like. Many want their fire services to be the best but don't want to be bothered with it when it comes time to pay for it, especially when it is a volunteer company.

Last night I was woken up by my Minitor 5 at 2:30am after two hours of sleep. Structure fire, residential house, was in fire. Seems the wife left those "stinky" candles burning when she went to bed. Husband attempted to put fire out with pots of water, then a garden hose (he left the door open full) and the wife finally called 9-1-1 after about ten minutes. As volunteers we rushed to the fire house, got our vehicles and left "lights and sirens". Got there and the house was fully involved. No hydrants in area so water had to be hauled by 3,000gal tenders to the scene.

I was operating a 1,500gpm pumper and an hour into it the husband came to me and demanded to know: Why we weren't there in less than 3 minutes; why did we let the fire get so big; why we didn't earn our wages by meeting his expectations; why we wouldn't put part of the fire out (broken gas meter, had to be shut off at street) and insisted that we weren't working fast enough. When I told him we were volunteers, got paid nothing and asked why he waited so long to call he abruptly shut up!

Paid or volunteer we are all professionals. The only difference is the some get paid for it.

I got home an hour ago and need sleep. I lost 8 hours of it last night besides having an angry wife when I left and got home so much later. Just for an unappreciative John Q. Public. Oh, we saved his attached garage.

Thank you again!

Good Luck, Old Salt

OldSalt,

My uncle was part of the volunteer Fire Dept. in Northern California, Grass Valley I think. He joined the Dept. after retiring from Lockheed Skunkworks (34 years). Your story above is a perfect example of the unrealistic expectations of the public! Wait several minutes and when things start getting out of hand, then they call 9-1-1 and expect you to be there faster than they could call you.

I am a firm believer that life is more precious than material possessions. I have taught my children and extended family to get out of the residence along with as many other people and pets they can and call 9-1-1.

Even though I am trained in the use of an SCBA (I worked in Waste Water treatment and used it when filling chemical tanks) and have two in my non-attached storage building, I know that if I go back in, I may not make it back out as I don't have the protective outer wear that is necessary for the excessive heat. The Fire Dept. is less than a 5 minute drive from my house and it would take me that long to get, open the case, donn my SCBA and open the valve. Then, I only have a garden hose to use.

Like pissing on a campfire, not very effective and it stinks.

Thanks again for your input.

Garden hose nozzles have improved a bit of late. Not the Swiss army knife variety, but there are some high flow nozzles out there now. Usually made of aluminum, or SS. Twist on and pattern selector. The clue is a 3/4" disc that is bolted through the center of itself, right where the water exits. I keep a pressurized 3/4" 100' hose on at the front and back of my house. I also keep 2, 10 pound dry chem and one halo-tron.

Who are you calling a fraidy cat?

You have made yourself the utopian set-up for your water supply. I have found that many houses have only a 20 to 50 psi water pressure if they are on an individual well. Take that and combine it with 3/4" copper for the main pipe and then the hose bib supply being 1/2" Cu feeding a anti-siphon hose bib feeding a 5/8" hose and finally ending with the common garden hose nozzle doesn't get you very much water at the end of all that. Maybe 5 gpm at the best. Not much to hold off a fire till the red trucks arrive.

With municipal/private water I can't get much more than that out of a hose. For my lawn sprinklers I have to limit my heads to 5 or 6 at 3gpm for each section piped through 1" pvc and polyethylene. The street supply is 90-100psi and a pressure reducer in the house by the meter set for 60-65psi. Some people with swimming pools hire the fire company to supply water (we pay the water company for it) for their pools either with a 3,000 gal tender running multiple trips or connecting to a metered hydrant. That provides about 30,000 gal, 20ft x 40ft pool, in 70 minutes from a hydrant. Certainly better than 2 days or more to fill it from the hose bibs.

Be proud of your situation!

Good Luck, Old Salt

Two years the water supply was upgraded to new mains, and new 1" supply lines to everyone in the area. My back bib is on the 3/4" inlet pipe, the front is reduced to 5/8". Pressure is almost always at 65. I guess I am Fortunate.

The radios are for fire department to fire department use only. Modern fire alarm systems seem to have done away with waiting for the fire department to arrive to warn people to evacuate. But, as has been said, contact the authority having jurisdiction. That would be the local fire department. Start with the Fire Marshall's office.

Fire department radios ARE NOT just for fire department to fire department use! Such procedures and utilizations went the way of the HF band usage, the open cabin fire truck and the manufacture of Pirsch fire trucks. Trunked UHF radios permit the use with many other functions. Many companies with large or hazardous facilities share their channel(s) with the fire dept. so that they can communicate during emergencies. They are also used for Haz Mat teams of which many are not sections of fire depts. In the area of my fire dept's response the radios are also used for private to fire or hazmat team communication, activating and talking over a PA system within private buildings (some also have mikes in the buildings which the fire dept can listen to the inside area. Fire Depts also use them for: fire to medevac helicopters; fire to public safety; fire to prosecutors staff; fire to county sheriffs; fire to public safety; fire to paging systems; fire to marine services; fire to EMS; and fire to many other organizations and functions. Except for the communications with marine services all of these have been used or are available to use.

Modern radios, such as the Motorola XTS 1500, which is no longer made has the capabilities for 45 different channels and they are used to better communicate between functions not just fire depts. Others have more channels.

The NFPA is responsible for 380 codes and standards. Almost all Fire Marshalls will readily admit that they are only familiar with a few of them. Most of them know the ones they use the most: NFPA 1, Fire Code; 54 National Fuel Gas Code; and 101, Life Safety Code. Very few are familiar with the intricateness of NFPA 70, NEC, which has approximately 1,000 pages.

A much better resource would probably be the local electrical inspector and then maybe the Fire Marshall for the NEC, #70. The NFPA standards, all 389 of them, take up 13 three ring binders or disk. If you want to search for something like this get/borrow the disk and do a search on it. THAT IS THE BEST WAY TO FIND OUT

I'm not the only one who sees this as the best method. Two of three fire marshals agreed with me today on it.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Here is a picture of a Fireman's jack I see every day.

Old Salt,

I enjoy reading your posts as they are usually very concise and informative. At 50 years old, I remember and older Machinist that was my superior. At the time, I was about 24 years old and was brought in to take over their CNC machines to do the programming and machining. The boss knew my skills because I worked at a Mold Making shop and had been in charge of it since I was 18 years old and made a lot of the prototype molds before they went to his shop to be made into multi-cavity molds. They had the larger equipment. Being the youngest machinist there and also was being paid significantly more than several of the other machinists, I was repeatedly harassed, hazed, made fun of, and had plenty of tricks played on me. It took me over a year to prove myself a competent mold maker to the lower paid, higher seniority machinists. That was until the main troublemaker made a huge mistake on a mold that was a 24" mold steel cube with the center machined out to about 16" diameter tapered hole. (He over bored the diameter) I remembered what my supervisor said and went over to help him fix the problem. He thought I was coming over to gloat and had his defenses up, I calmly explained how to repair the mold and encouraged him to not feel so bad and used one of my mistakes (that he made fun of me with) and told him "We all make mistakes"

I guess my point is that I learned from my elders, I listened and took their advice. When they saw that I really wanted to learn, they gave me even more of their personal machining secrets! I appreciate every one of them.

That has shaped my life since then and enjoy teaching other young (or old) persons the craft of machining, woodworking, carpentry, or any other trade I was taught or taught myself.

I remember the time when my youngest daughter and I would play LEGO's every day after school. (I have over 300,000 LEGO's) She has such a grasp on building and mechanics that makes me so proud.

Old Salt,

Thank you!

Bryan

Check the fire code for the locality where the building is located. Many localities utilize either, both, or modifications of National Codes (NFPA, ICC in general).