Previous in Forum: It Really Wasn't Close   Next in Forum: Propellantless Propulsion In Space Applications
Close
Close
Close
28 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693

When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/24/2015 4:13 PM
Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Large hole formally occupied by furry woodland creature.
Posts: 3385
Good Answers: 97
#1

Re: WHEN IT JUST ISN'T YOUR DAY TO DIE.

04/24/2015 4:37 PM

Wow, talk about seat-of-the-pants!

I bet those props are feathered!

__________________
CRTL-Z
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9917
Good Answers: 1142
#2

Re: WHEN IT JUST ISN'T YOUR DAY TO DIE.

04/24/2015 5:13 PM

That is no way to treat a nice airplane!

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#3

Re: WHEN IT JUST ISN'T YOUR DAY TO DIE.

04/24/2015 7:31 PM

I think this happens more often than one realizes. .... Kinda. (Except flying away) my nieces father-in-law. Landed his twin engine plane..... And forgot to lower the landing gear....

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#4
In reply to #3

Re: WHEN IT JUST ISN'T YOUR DAY TO DIE.

04/24/2015 8:48 PM

I used to spend a lot of time at the GA airport about 3 miles from my house, listening to tower traffic. It's controlled, so there is always someone in the tower.

A retractable was on short final with gear up. The tower told him when he was about 30 feet off the ground.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Wannabeabettawelda

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 7942
Good Answers: 459
#5

Re: WHEN IT JUST ISN'T YOUR DAY TO DIE.

04/24/2015 10:28 PM

A grind and go.

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3683
Good Answers: 89
#18
In reply to #5

Re: WHEN IT JUST ISN'T YOUR DAY TO DIE.

04/27/2015 9:28 AM

Scraping the rust off the undercarriage?

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - Member

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Trantor
Posts: 5363
Good Answers: 647
#6

Re: WHEN IT JUST ISN'T YOUR DAY TO DIE.

04/25/2015 7:17 AM

I worked with a guy who'd been a pilot during the Viet Nam war. He told the story of an F-4 pilot who landed without putting the landing gear down. The F-4 pilot realized there was a problem when he had to fire up the afterburners to taxi.

__________________
Whiskey, women -- and astrophysics. Because sometimes a problem can't be solved with just whiskey and women.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Technical Fields - Project Managers & Project Engineers - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Texas.Baytown
Posts: 697
Good Answers: 26
#7

Re: WHEN IT JUST ISN'T YOUR DAY TO DIE.

04/25/2015 9:45 AM

Landing gear! We don't need no stinking landing gear!

__________________
If you want to know how well a broom works you do not ask the guy selling the broom or the guy who designed the broom, you ask the guy using the broom.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#8

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/25/2015 12:40 PM

Belly landing is not so much of a big deal, but...

It was extremely stupid to go airborne after the possibility of bending the props or grenading the motors.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#9
In reply to #8

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/25/2015 12:59 PM

I believe that the FAA says that any prop strike requires an (immediate) prop and engine teardown.

I don't think that means after flying off and landing at another airport.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#10
In reply to #9

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/25/2015 4:34 PM

The reason you do the teardown is not for Mr. Goodwrench's boat payments.

The angular torque will bend the crank (among other things).

The skid landing was one thing, he was lucky he didn't have an engine failure on the subsequent takeoff.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#11
In reply to #10

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/26/2015 12:19 AM

Not to mention the loss of insurance coverage if it ever was discovered by the carrier.

They're funny that way.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England & Ireland
Posts: 1063
Good Answers: 61
#12

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/26/2015 6:35 AM

Looks fake. Plane is going much to fast to recover from that scrape, but film could have been speeded up to impress us.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#13

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/26/2015 10:19 AM

I could not find an accident report on the tail number of the plane connected to the video.

I did find this connected to the aircraft in Trade-a-Plane:

  • Year:1970
  • Manufacturer:Aerostar
  • Model:601
  • Price:Call for Price
  • Location:FL, USA
  • Condition:Used
  • Serial Number:61-0065-12
  • Registration Number:N7502S
  • Airframe Total Time:2297
  • Engine Times:230 SMOH
  • Prop Times:N/A
  • Flight Rules:IFR

1970 AEROSTAR 601, 230 HRS SMOH ON ENGINES, NEEDS PROPS, 2297 TT, IFR, GPS 430s, (FXE) FL. CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION.

This aircraft is currently owned by Aerostar Ltd in Fort Lauderdale, FL.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 687
Good Answers: 21
#14
In reply to #13

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/26/2015 1:26 PM

Aircraft in good shape with hours listed 150K, as tested in video $0. Engines to overhaul 50K each, Props about 20k each. Scrap, a lot of cans made from nice aircraft.

Fixit

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#15
In reply to #14

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/26/2015 5:01 PM

150k hours? That 17 years of constant flying 24/7

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 687
Good Answers: 21
#20
In reply to #15

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/29/2015 9:42 PM

150K is short for $150,000.00 US

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 5708
Good Answers: 123
#16

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/27/2015 12:22 AM

You do realize that rubber removal is just a routine procedure at most airports.

__________________
Bob
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5826
Good Answers: 322
#17

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/27/2015 5:24 AM

This 1970 Aerostar 601 did in fact land safely but not without substantial damage to the props and has recently been listed for sale with the disclaimer "needs props."

AND pilots seat cover I should think.

__________________
If you spend all your time looking for people and things to complain about: trust me, you will find plenty to complain about.
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3683
Good Answers: 89
#19
In reply to #17

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

04/27/2015 9:31 AM

No, no, the seat cover is fine. That's why the covers come in brown.

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#21

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

05/04/2015 3:00 PM

Isn't that why Aerostars have this little light thingy on the cockpit instrument panel called a landing gear position indicator? Heck, how hard can that be to see? Somebody must have thinking about Tang, and is wasn't Orange Tang. Too bad the video ended, I was waiting for an engine grenade or two, or props flying off, and/or the reall crash landing. Nevertheless -

It is called a landing and not a crash, as long as you can walk away from it.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Reply
Associate

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada's West Coast , Pacific.
Posts: 34
#22

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

05/20/2015 11:17 PM

Lyn , Hello on better terms . The pilot was attempting to remain above V mc , minimum control speed on one engine , which , on an Aerostar , is fast , over 104 mph. Less speed than this and the application of full power on one engine will cause an uncontrollable roll over into the ground under power .

Had the wheels been down it would have worked , the chances of a post ground strike engine being able to deliver takeoff power are not good at all , the Lycomings saved that airplane , by providing takeoff power even with compromised propellers . Usually what happens is , the extreme vibrations associated with broken props driven at 300 HP tear the engines free of the wings .

That aircraft should have crashed , it should not have been able to regain flight , and the person flying it should not have attempted a takeoff after touching the ground .

The only safe scenario left to a pilot if this sort of thing happens is throttle to zero and stop before igniting . An attempted take off is not only the worst option , it should lead to a flying , burning , out of control twin which can't slow down below 104 mph , not something you want to be inside of .

A similar accident in Tokyo involved a loaded MD 11 Freighter , a FedEx machine . The two pilots accidentally jammed the nose wheel down too hard , probably sleepy after crossing the Pacific hauling nothing but freight . The nosewheel broke , the aircraft impacted with Tokyo's active runway at speed , and then the pilots applied take off power to attempt regaining flight . Instead what happened is the aircraft ignited as it was getting airborne , and spread wreckage and airplane for 5 kilometres across the City of Tokyo , causing a complete loss of aircraft , crew , freight , and very nearly most of the city as well .

__________________
Steele113
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#23
In reply to #22

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

05/21/2015 12:13 AM

You say:

"The pilot was attempting to remain above V mc , minimum control speed on one engine"

I believe that both engines were operating normally. The aircraft would have crashed and burned one one engine.

This was probably an uncontrolled airport. Nobody to inform him of his error.

Conclusion:

Pilot error. Controlled flight into terrain.

As far as I can tell, this was never reported to FAA.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#24
In reply to #23

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

05/21/2015 7:45 AM

Or an internet hoax.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#25
In reply to #24

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

05/21/2015 7:52 AM

like the pilot who landed a plane when the wing came off.....

All accidents such as this I thought has to be reported.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#26
In reply to #25

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

05/21/2015 10:19 AM

There was one aircraft I know of that landed without one wing, but it was an F-15 in Israel and it did get reported.

The pilot was demoted for not bailing out (ignoring the command from his flight instructor), but promoted for saving the aircraft.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#27
In reply to #26

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

05/21/2015 11:04 AM

There was an youtube about a aerobatic plane that landed after a wing came off.... turn out to be a hoax.

Ok,... Its nice when the thrust is greater then the weight. Now lack of control surface..... not so nice.

Funny thing of the military..... Good job for phuqin up.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#28
In reply to #24

Re: When It Just Isn't Your Day to Die

05/21/2015 11:12 AM

Certainly a possibility.

Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 28 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

adreasler (2); Anonymous Hero (4); bob c (1); Brave Sir Robin (1); Dragon113 (1); energyconversion (1); fixitorelse (2); James Stewart (1); lyn (6); phoenix911 (4); Randall (1); Rixter (1); texasron (1); Unredundant (1); Usbport (1)

Previous in Forum: It Really Wasn't Close   Next in Forum: Propellantless Propulsion In Space Applications

Advertisement