Extended Performance Engine Oil

"Shell Rotella" is a very non-specific term. It could be any one of a number of products.

Based on the original post, my non-expert advice is change the oil half way through your trip!

It's hard to know anything without proper feedback, if you have been testing your oil you would have some clue as to it's performance and needs...

http://www.amazon.com/Wix-24077-Oil-Analysis-Kit/dp/B000CSEUQ0

I would recommend at least a synthetic mix, and not go beyond reasonable miles between changes, without testing...this all depends on filter type and viscosity and additive levels...If you take samples at intervals on this trip, you will know what steps to take next time....You might be able to get away with just changing the filter and topping off the oil....or any number of options....but without proper feedback, I wouldn't change anything at the last minute that has been working fine up till now....

I think the Wix kit from Amazon requires a sample to be sent to a laboratory for testing, not too convenient when traveling. Oil Spy is not as exhaustive but gives a quick on-the-spot indication of oil & engine condition.

...or he could pump it out and store it, or dispose of it at his convenience...

http://www.amazon.com/America-2000-LiquiVac-Changing-System/dp/B0002AJR8E

...install some sort of dual filter bypass system....

Shell Rotella is a "specific brand " and type of oil. I don't know how to be more specific other than the viscosity.

Changing the oil when staying in RV parks is usually not allowed, hence the need to not change it if possible. If the oil needs changing I would have to bring the truck to a shop which is much more expensive. And, I would rather do it myself. I've less than stellar experiences when bringing my truck to a shop for an oil change.

It is true that highway miles are much easier than city driving but not when towing, especially through the mountains.

Does anyone have any experience with extended performance oil?

Thanks,

Don

Are you sure?

Shell Rotella® T1 Straight Grade Heavy Duty Engine Oil

Shell Rotella® T Triple Protection Heavy Duty Engine Oil

Shell Rotella® T5 Synthetic Blend Technology Heavy Duty Engine Oil

Shell Rotella® T6 Full Synthetic Heavy Duty Engine Oil

The Rotella product family is categorized by Shell into the following product families:

• Engine oils
• Coolants
• Tractor fluid (a universal transmission, gear, hydraulic, and wet brake fluid)
• Gear oil

Not trying to be argumentative, have a good trip.

Back in 2001-2003 in addition to my engineering duties I was responsible for managing a medium sized fleet of HD trucks, LD vehicles, and HD equipment so I had to get very familiar with your particular situation.

Shell Rotella is one of the top engine lubricants available today for use in diesel engines and should be good for at least 6,000 highway miles.

Instead of worrying about changing the oil mid-trip, I would just change the filter(s) then add a good aftermarket oil additive and make up the difference with Rotella.

There are several aftermarket oil additives available however, LUCAS Oil markets some of the best oil additives on the market and they have extensive DATA available on most if not all engine oils and engines currently offered on the market.

I suggest you contact LUCAS directly and ask their customer support representatives what they recommend for your situation.

I believe your suggestion is one of the best, Just change the filters and top off with your oil of choice. One of my co-workers uses the Lucas oil additive with the Rotella Diesel oil. Not sure what particular blend?

He gets really good mileage and has 346,000 miles on his truck and engine. Mostly now he is doing mechanical and structural repairs on the frame and suspension due to the miles and where he drives it. (The Nevada Desert)

I'm actually surprised it still runs! It's a DODGE!

I like this question. you have two basic issues, dirt and lubrication quality.first the "dirt or suspended particles"you have 2 sources here, your engine air supply....your air filter.second you have byproducts of combustion that blow past your rings. you never mentioned any compression testing data so lets assume you have a reasonable ring seal on a non-high mileage engine. so what can you do? coastal driving differs from desert or prairie driving so I wouldn't expect your trip will see much in the way of sandstorm or dusty driving conditions. so starting out with a clean filter with a lot of surface area like K&N can cover the air. should you hit a dusty patch just rinse it out.your main source of dirt will still by byproducts of combustion.oil filters aren't high tech, regardless of marketing claims most are glorified paper coffee filters.I'd toss a couple behind the seat and change out @5K and top off the oil level. exotic oil might you sleep better knowing your wallet weighs less. if you don't already I'd really strongly suggest an oil cooler

Shell Rotella performs extremely poorly compared to an equivalent Amsoil product.

Look at this data sheet and the graphs toward the bottom.

It has stated performance at:

Diesel Engine Service

• Three times (3X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 50,000 miles/600 hours or one year, whichever comes first. Drain intervals may be extended further with oil analysis.
• 2007-2009 Caterpillar C13 and C15 on-highway engines must follow OEM drain interval.
• 2007-Present Dodge, Ford and GM light-duty diesel pickups must follow OEM-recommended drain interval. Drain intervals may be extended with oil analysis.

Gasoline Engine Service

• Two times (2X) OEM* recommendation, not to exceed 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.

Engine oil does not "wear out" and lose lubrication properties.

The lubrication properties such as cushion factor are impacted by the contamination introduced into the oil.

The source and amount of contamination introduced into the oil is controlled by several factors that include; type & quality of fuel, engine wear, cylinder compression blow-by, type and quantity of oil additives, type and efficiency of air intake filter, type & efficiency of oil & fuel filter, type of service equipment is being used for (long haul, short haul, city, open road, engine RPM, etc.), and the type, size, & quantity of suspended contaminants in the ambient air where the equipment is operating.

If you read the small print, the AMOIL 50,000 mile claim is justified by regular filter changes on a periodic interval.

I have observed several over-the-road freight companies using Shell Rotella that extend their oil changes on tractor engines to the 50,000 mile mark by replacing the filters and using additives.

While the 50,000 mile service interval may work for a company with their own service facility and their ability to write the cost of an engine failure off their taxes, I would not ever consider taking the risk with my personal equipment.

The only experience I have with extend oil performance is... none. Although I do try to procure the highest performing lubricate I can, I still change it frequently. For me, the cost/inconvenience of breaking down someplace remote far outweighs the cost/inconvenience of a remotely-performed oil change.

After working at a municipality where we used Schaeffer's oil and it extended our mileage / hours to about double or triple on different vehicles and machinery.

They also offer oil testing where you send in a sample and they tell you when to change the oil based on chemical and microscopic inspection and how long the oil has been in use and your mileage!

Personally I am not one for recommending oil analysis on normal passenger vehicles being that a single analysis costs around $20 - $25 and a full DIY oil change with filter is about the same.

To be honest unless you have a huge industrial engine that works in a widely varying service application or have had something questionable happen that could affect your engine paying for an oil analysis is not really worth it.

If it was me I would drive the trip and add oil as needed then do a normal change when I got home being the Duramax engines are mechanically pretty well built and forgiving unlike their electrical and emissions systems.

Thanks everyone for your information. Since all RV parks I have ever stayed at have prohibited any vehicle maintenance, I guess I will have to just bring my truck in to a shop for an oil change. I hate to do that since I can, and have, done the task myself for half the cost of a shop doing it. The cost seems to be more for a diesel engine than a gas guzzler.

Thanks again,

Don

I understand your concern re letting somebody else totally screw up a basic bit of routine maintenance that you can do better yourself.

I'd change the oil just before your road trip and it should go the distance with top ups till you return unless you have had serious overheating issues enruite where an oil change is a prudent precaution.

If you have to change oil enroute find a facility that doesn't touch your sump plug and just vacuums the sump empty through the dip stick. Far less can go wrong with this method. Birddog the buggas when they change the filter.

Here, when you buy oil, sticking it in your engine is included as part of the service, and the vacuum system is good. I have a steel sump guard/bashplate under my pickup too so it's a major job to get to the sump plug as well and of course bolts get lost or the bashplate has been bashed and... the vacuum method postpones the sorting of those issues.

Sounds like a great road trip ahead.

I have been using full synthetic for my cars since the 80's. I have used several different makes. They are basically all the same (they would hate me for this!!)!! I have never had an engine problem even though I have exceed 400,000 Kms on some of them, diesels & petrol, but mostly diesels....

You already use Shell Rotella which is a full synthetic I believe, probably LL3 grade I would expect, if so, you are already using one of the best.....

You can safely double your oil change interval at least if you were previously using a mineral oil. What is the allowed distance on mineral oil?

The lubrication and the protection from any good LL3 oil are the best I have ever seen in my whole life. You get it from ANY good name oil company's LL3 Oil.....Pick your favorite name and buy it. Shell Rotella must be at least as good as the rest!!

What I would recommend is, if anyone else here was not using a "Long Life 3 Oil" right now in their engine, only a "standard mineral oil". If they made the change, then to use the vehicle as much as possible till just before any long trip as it "cleans" your engine out well. Then replace oil and filter again, just before they leave on their trip.

Then just do the whole trip just making normal checks, not changes.

Anyone who does this will never regret the change. Nor will their engine either....

The biggest "problem" LL3 oil has is that it extends the distance to "run in" a motor dramatically, which I take as a good thing!! My best estimate is that it doubles that period approximately. But all the cars I have owned since 2000 have had fully synthetic oil specified by the manufacturer anyway....

Cars I bought previously to that time had mineral oil from new, so at 10,000 Kms they got their first synthetic (not LL3 then if I remember correctly), all the cars just ran and ran and ran.......

I have never seen it used in an old, worn air cooled engine though, like a Beetle for example, though what is the difference really? It would be a good test. No oil filter, just a "strainer"........

If your RV or any car engine, has a Turbo, especially after pulling off the highway, let the engine run at tick over for a few minutes to let the Turbo cool from the oil still passing through it, before switching off!!

That is good advice for any Turbo engine.....many do not bother, some are lucky.......some not!! But LL3 will protect the Turbo bearings better than mineral oil under the duress of extreme heat.....it simply evaporates instead of burning up!! BIG & VERY IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE!!

Driving an engine the same number of miles/Kms between oil changes as for mineral oils, but with Fully Synthetic LL3 oils, is simply wasting money.....as well as having far more old oil to get rid of.

By the way, 10,000 miles is around 16,000 Kms, I have had cars that had an "oil computer", it calculated when the oil needed to be replaced (VW Diesel) and it usually came out between 30,000 and 35,000 Kms. Including hauling a heavy trailer!!!

So don't worry, remember, we drive FAR faster here, even with trailers than is allowed in most other countries!!

The old beetles might benefit from the synthetics.

One of the weak points was cylinder #3,which ran hotter than the others due to

cooling air being obstructed by the oil cooler.

VW even delayed the timing on #3 lobe of the distributor to reduce load on the #3

cylinder in an attempt to make it run cooler.

It didn't seem to matter,#3 would always drop a valve if not religiously adjusted

every 3000 miles.

So the synthetics might help cool the cylinders in that case.

Synthetic oils may help, I am not clever enough with the mechanics to know either way, but generally they synthetics lubricate better and with even higher temperatures if need be.......

They are thinner I believe than VW recommend, but therefore start work quicker by getting to obscure parts faster....so they might take the heat away a tad faster, so you might be onto a good thing!!

It would be great if someone tested such a car with synthetic, maybe one that has been converted to having a proper oil filter instead of the strainer...? To extend the usable life of the oil as well.....

"It would be great if someone tested such a car with synthetic, maybe one that has been converted to having a proper oil filter instead of the strainer...? To extend the usable life of the oil as well....."

Would a 4 cylinder shop air compressor count?

I run synthetic automotive oil in mine being my shop is not heated and the difference between 10w30 synthetic Vs 10W30 standard oil is it can start up at full pressure down to about -20F without tripping the breaker opposed to +5F.

Actually that is pretty valid as a test!!! Lots of water around from compressing air.....also a massive change for the better with regard to temperature, good idea....

How long have you used it like that?

Does it have an oil filter? Does it even need one?

The Shell Rotella is a petroleum oil. GM's recommendation is to change oil and filter every 5K miles under towing conditions.

I was considering the Mobil Delvac extended performance oil. It is a petroleum oil, with, I believe, additives. Mobil claims that vehicles can go 15K between changes under normal driving conditions.

My C2500 Duramax does have an oil cooler and transmission cooler. I was glad I had both when I was towing through Arizona when the temperature was 112 degrees F.

Regardless of the type of oil you use in the engine,you should also focus on the

transmission.

I recommend an oil cooler for the transmission,which will suffer in the mountains

under heavy load.

Heat destroys transmission fluid,as well as motor oil.

An engine oil cooler would also be a benefit under towing conditions.

Just be sure to keep oil above 160F to prevent condensation in oil,so try to find a

cooler with a thermostat.

I would be certain to change fluid and tranny filter before leaving on the trip.

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

Good luck,and be safe.

That is good advice.

It suggests to me that engine oil coolers are probably not standard in the USA, but here for example they are as "close as damit", standard - we drive faster. So they are needed....I haven't had a car in years that didn't have such a cooler as standard.....

Also, most (I cannot say all!) cars here with automatic gearbox also have an oil cooler for that...often built into the bottom of the radiator..

Manual gearboxes, as far as I am aware, seldom need coolers...maybe when racing?......am I even right?

If you can prove that your engine has always had an oil change at the recommended interval with the SAME brand and type then it would be wise to stick with it. If your engine fails due to faulty lubrication you would have a claim.

Jim

Maximum wear on an engine occurs in the first 7 seconds after start up.Years ago i developed a simple electric driven oil pump that would run for 7 seconds prior to starting the engine to pre lube but it was rejected due to the fact that , i was told, nobody wanted to wait for their car to start for 7 seconds!

7 seconds is no worse that waiting for the glow plug light to go out before you start a diesel engine.

Modern diesels still have it installed, but only need it below -15°C on my car.......seldom!

I'll trust you on that, the only diesels I drive are old hire vans.

Due to the fact that modern diesels have for some years used incredibly high injection pressures, the hole(s) in the injector are VERY small, the fuel is so finely atomised, it burns even in relatively cold air...

On my car there is not even an indicator nowadays to tell you to wait (red) before starting (green) as I have had previously on my first diesel car, many years ago.

Even the "Diesel heater" is only needed for getting the paraffin flakes in the fuel to melting point (they "appear" at under +4°C), so that they pass through the diesel filter, not for starting. (Just to keep the engine RUNNING!)

A diesel heater is also less often needed than years ago (I cannot say NOT ever needed as it depends on where the diesel is bought and the rules and regs locally, as well as the weather and temperature) here at least I am told!!

Useful idea. It could have been a problem if it stopped the engine starting earlier completely, trying to get out of the way of a train for example, on a crossing.....

I have seen it often that such good ideas are simply ignored......I know of many.....

I told VW (about 2004) that as an owner of the 6 speed manual box, I was appalled that the ratios were so close together, plus the top gear was more for a petrol engine than a diesel, that I could drive up hill and down dale in 6th gear towing a large caravan at between 70 and 90 MPH......it should not have been possible....

I said to him, I want a high 6th gear, to make the engine revs lower, hopefully the consumption as well, when NOT towing!! For towing, I could live with the first 5....

He said "everyone" wants to get up to speed quicker......I said no they don't. If they did, they would not buy diesels!! They want economy.....he did not agree.....

The same engine with the 5 speed box is nice to drive, so I then said that how about the same ratios as the 5 speed for 1 to 5 and a 6th gear with longer legs. No he said....

BUT, sometime later, probably around 2010, the diesels were sent out with just such a gearbox!!! Really nice to drive....then and NOW!!!

This is an easy answer:

What's cheaper, An oil change or a new engine ?

Unless this is a secret road test for Shell Rotella in an upcoming Super Bowl commercial.

I talked with my Chevy service department manager. He told me that even if using an extended service oil, the oil and filter should be changed every 5K miles because, even if the oil is still good, the filter may be at the end of its useful life.

Thanks,

Don

What year is your truck? There are some longer 2 quart oil filters used on some of the bigger trucks that used those diesels. I have used them on anything that they will fit on. An extra quart of oil circulating is always a good thing.

2002 Chevy C2500HD Duramax. It seems to be more of a question of the life of the oil filter rather than the oil. Perhaps a larger oil filter would help.

From what I can see, a NAPA # 1794 filter will work on your truck. It is 2 qt. capacity, and is used on larger trucks. If I remember correctly, Fram # is PH373. Good luck. Send pictures.

Good move if possible!

There is an aftermarket oil filter company (K&N)that uses the same part number for both applications, so that should be a good application.

Don, I've been in the business since 2002 and I've helped a lot of my clients with 3/4 ton diesels.

Listen to your GM rep. Change the oil and filter every 5K miles. I'd use the stock oil filter as well and I recommend using the same brand of oil you've used since new.

In the past, the older style synthetic oils would cause seals and gaskets to shrink or grow. I remember hearing people say that their engine was tight until they switched and now it leaks. You shouldn't have that problem now, since the new synthetics have similar gasket swelling characteristics - that is if you want to go synthetic.

The good news for you is that you have one of the good Duramax engines. Keep an eye out for the injectors - they're known to fail early and they're hard to get at in the early Duramax. The next gen '04 to '07 didn't have the injector problem, but they have issues with overheating when stressed. I believe it was in '07 that they added an exhaust filter to catch particulates. Around '10 they went to urea to clean up the exhaust. Next time you're near a new urea diesel engine (the big three all use this, as well as the imports), notice the smell of the exhaust. For me, I don't mind the old burned diesel smell, but the new exhaust smells funny to me.

At 145K, you have a ton of life left in your motor. Your truck also has the 5 speed Allison transmission - it's a good transmission, but you don't want it to overheat.

If my clients are towing something heavy, I recommend upgrading the external transmission cooler or adding a larger one in addition to the factory unit. My mechanic showed me the factory unit and it's pretty small compared to a nice aftermarket unit. There's a good shop in Inglewood (it's called Inglewood Transmission Service) - they can help you with the tranny cooler upgrade - they sell a bolt on upgrade. A deeper transmission oil pan may also be a good upgrade too.

Good luck Don - let us know what you decide.

Allison service rep told us that an Allison will gain one degree F. per second while at full stall speed. Heat kills. They had a chart comparing fluid life to fluid temp. If you are towing get a cooler.