Bunker EMP Protection for 110 Volt and Coax

Perhaps you should sign in and provide more details on your application and what you are trying to protect against.

As a defence contractor this question alone as it is looks.....potentially dodgy.

I am guessing military EMP hardened systems are out of reach for you. An American doomsday prepper perhaps?

your reply to the question looks a bit ..... " dodgy "

of course its a prepper home. but i didnt use the term doomsday , its just a sanctuary for my family "just in case".

what am i trying to protect against ?

If you can understand english you would see the term " EMP " used so there is a chance i want to prevent damage to electrical devices from EMP ?

If i was "military " i wouldnt be asking questions on this website would i ?

so the questions were simple but the replies simpleton.

Would you prefer I didn't ask questions and give advice to the enemy (whoever that is, cannot guarantee you are American after all).

If you can understand english you would see the term " EMP " used so there is a chance i want to prevent damage to electrical devices from EMP ?

Yes but there are different levels. Improvised EMP device, small Air burst nuclear bomb, not so small Air burst nuclear bomb, etc. Like overcurrent and lightning protection there really isn't a one-solution-solves-them-all product.

My advice would be have spare cameras, generator, computer, etc in safe storage and if you get hit quickly replace the damaged gear with your untouched spares. Heck of a lot cheaper than EMP hardened cable systems and electronics, the money could be used.......elsewhere.

In the event of an attack your shelter should be 'buttoned down' anyway with as much electrical gear disconnected and safely offline to prevent damage. You shouldn't need fancy camera systems before the strike for example if your bunker's location is not known.

Just don't do what yer not supposed to, and we won't have to EMP on you...

Really?

You post anonymously and ask for information that would only be used in case of thermonuclear attack?

Unless you have the 110V source and the coax in your bunker, along with everything you will need for an extended stay, you are wasting your, and our, time. Never mind the camera, everyone else will already be dead.

If you are so paranoid, you should learn how to use Google and search for "EMP resistance".

I'll give you a clue, thick dirt will do it. So will any metal, in the proper thickness.

Water. Distance. I'd tell you more, but then I'd have to kill you.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Move to Idaho and live in a cave.

maybe people are encouraged to post anonymously due to the folks who want to dump buckets on the poster for asking honest questions that dont fit their paradigm.

as far as the risk of posters being a "security threat" or being "the enemy" ( LOL ) , i would think the enemy would be "other nation" military and govt who already have all the information they need .

It is the citizens who should have the information too .

"The bunker" is made from 3/16" steel , reinforced with 3 x 2" hollow section , painted in rustproofing and buried under 5 feet of soil with a right angled access tunnel.

perhaps a spare camera would be feasible , but i want a camera topside to see whats out there after any event occurs .

i understand that if such an event occurs , the utility 110 VAC will likely cease operating , which is why we have a remote generator underground in its own box for backup power ( keeping exhaust away from the shelter ).

the original question is still on the table.

How do you know when to start the generator or get in the bunker for that matter?

If you see the nuke detonate it's already too late to worry about the EMP.

Hopefully there is enough warning from seeing an escalation in tensions first . :/ . If it ever happens , the first one launched wont be one , but more likely a preprogrammed series of dozens aimed at the others perceived strategic resources , followed by ..... :( This bunker cost us no more than the price of a reasonable ski boat including its NBC filtration and generator , at 1/15 th of the cost of the family home its cheap IMO.

A GA (wish I could give you 2) for that totally realistic interpretation of the aftermath of an attack. So few seem to comprehend life quality post Armageddon. How long can you remain in the bunker before supplies force you to the surface where you will surely come into contact with contaminated items or be the victim of foul play? Not sure I want to be around to experience it.

I agree with Lyn on this one. If you survive an nuclear attack you will likely wish you had died. To get a feel for what I mean, watch the movie "This is the End" which is based on the Book of Revelation's.

Furthermore, nuclear testing over the Pacific ocean blew out all the street lights once upon a time in the wee hours of the day. Oops! I believe they were operating on 110 VAC at the time.

Anything operating at the time would be toast, including your watch. A solar clock won't do you any good because the sun won't be visible for at least a year. Any crops in that first year will probably be dismal. People who you thought were friends will become your worst enemy because they will know you have resources locked away. You will need guns to protect you and it will get very ugly and bloody.

In short, we should embrace the big bang because outliving it would be nightmarish.

By the way, the super volcano in the Yellowstone National Park will be more likely to ruin most people's day. It is long overdue and the aftermath will be similar.

Or in the words of the original Nuclear prepper,

Professor Falken from War Games.

"I've planned ahead, we're only three miles away from a primary target."

For those who wish to live through a full out nuclear exchange I recommend Testament. (I will warn you, it is difficult to watch.)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086429/

"On the Beach" is another good one.

The response is still the same.

Distance, dirt, metal, water, pick your poison.

IF, you had an identity (admittedly still anonymous but at least that would allow an accumulation of threads and develop a historical record of your responses) along with a coherent explanation of your reasons for asking, the response might have been more to your liking.

Surely there are prepper forums around that would embrace your questions with less skepticism than an engineering forum has, so far.

I specified materials for "spy" satellites used during the cold war. EMP resistance was a concern.

Unless you live within 50 miles of an area that may experience a direct attack, EMP will not be your biggest concern.

Good luck.

I had this conversation once. I see it as find a good seat, watch the fireworks, be close enough to be dust before your skin slides off.

True . GA

Like this?

LOL!!

GA

Someone with brains has posted here!!

Next you'll want us to design a thermonuclear device for you, so you can proof test your bunker, huh?

Us?

nothing will completely block EMP. The M is a dead giveaway.

It does not matter if 110 Volts or coax or both.

How deep the bunker? It is deep isnt it? Some steel involved? Do you already live in it?

Lighting surge not same as EMP surge. Nobody offers this since the cold war ended. Its not a device protection anyway, but if you read Lyns answer careful you will know.

I suggest to keep the spares away from impact and be in the bunker before the EMP wave hits.

All I hear is that the old 386 chips were EMP resistant. Want to bet coaxial cable is as well?

Lead shielding is what you want. Go to your nearest metal supply store where you purchased the 3/16" steel and order severalo hundred square feet of 1/16" LEAD sheeting and wrap it around everything you want safe from an EMP!

While you're at it make a lead helmet for your head too!

And maybe one of these if you want to reproduce again after the BLAST!!!

Or one of these anti-radiation suits from Japan!!!

Good luck and happy barricading!!

Steps 6 and 7 are the only steps that are pertinent during an EMP event

How about a nice game of chess?

I might have to take you up on a game, at least it'd be more productive. Your move?

Let's play Global Thermonuclear War instead.

Ahhh, "War Games", I always liked that movie, up there with "Fail Safe" and the original "Andromeda Strain".

Now you're talking!!

On a more serious note. Several EMP survival sites highly recommend a Faraday cage to disperse the harmful EMP.

One thing that many of the TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) sites conveniently forget is that a Faraday Cage is easily breached if the leads going into it are not adequately treated to prevent the EMP from traveling along them.

Couple that with the fact that unless your camera and AC generator are hardened as well, they will be the first thing fried by the pulse, and don't forget to get a camera with an automatic instantaneous shutter to block both the flash and the radiation pulse as well.

Since the OP hasn't responded in a while, they may b hunkered in the bunker. ��

...or the OP failed to survive recent testing!

And that was just using a coil of wire and car battery.

There are non nuclear EMP weapons, however unless you're planning a ground invasion of (I don't know....lets say North Dakota) or are right next to a high value electronic target then nuclear weapons and their associated blast and fallout will almost certainly be the biggest concern.

Faraday cage around the whole underground (well covered) bunker and run it off a generator inside. Job done. Off grid is the only real safe way.

Why does YOUR Faraday Cage need power? Thats what you imply anyway.....mine doesn't!!

Not sure if it would help with a massive EMP,but a charged Faraday shield was used in a

television manufacturing facility where alignment of chassis was performed.

The entire room was enclosed in a hi voltage dc screen cage to prevent extraneous rf

signals from intruding during calibration of the rf stages.

As for doomsday prep,the choice is an instantaneous death by vaporization or a slow

long protracted painful inevitable death due to starvation or radiation sickness.

Einstein said that he did not know what WW3 would be fought with,but WW4 would be fought with sticks and stones.

I personally,would try to get as close to the center of the explosion as possible.

That is just me,but there are many I am sure that will "not go gentle into that dark night."

A hell of a lot of truth in your post for me too....thanks.

No , read his post again , he meant to run the bunker off a protected generator

I agree that if it happens it won't be two men with muskets at 30 paces.... It's likely to be a few hours at most of "intense activity ". :( There are companies selling "nuke bunkers" made out of corrugated sheet tanks welded together that I rate as being 0.00% effective and an absolute waste of time . Ours has a pressure certification. Ours has a hydraulic jack stored inside with brackets to force the door open if needed , and a heavy mine spec roof over the door to prevent the door being blocked by debris ,a right angled access tunnel , plus a small rear escape hatch which is bolted on from the inside . 12 months of food for the family with a 25 year shelf life costs only $4000 , 1000 gallon water tank , 500 gallon tank for the diesel geni ......... It cost only the price of a ski boat . And I don't miss that boat anyway ;)

And what's it value when neither you nor anyone else has ever used it in their life time?

Just asking being I have a buddy whos dad set up a similar fallout shelter under the addition to his house back in the 70's. I don't know what he spent on it but it's solid heavy reinforced concrete with a at least 1/2" thick steel sheet liner.

His guns and ammo collection it alone is worth over $1 million. Now some 40 years later it's an expensive gun locker/closet and not much else and he will be dead long before it ever gets used for anything else.

I don't know about you but for the likely near $2 million he sunk into that bunker and related stuff he's got in it he and his family could have traveled the world a few times over and lived a pretty good life instead.

My point is preppers have been sure that their bunkers will be needed in a week or two for the apocalypse since the beginning of time and so far not one of them has been right but a whole lot of money and time has been wasted in order to never live life to it's fullest.

Its a good philosophy to live with optimism and positive intent to enjoy each day of life on this earth.

But it is wise to also keep an ear to the ground where emerging and re-emerging super powers are rattling sabres and behaving like adolf.....

I simply fail to see the point of spending loads of time effort and money to try and make sure I survive the worst of the worst, which so far in all of history has yet to ever happen, just to live on afterwards in what will likely be a hellish nightmare and continual struggle to survive at any basic level opposed to enjoying the here and now that has been happening day in and day out for longer than recorded history.

So what exactly is the big appeal/justification to living in constant fear and preparation and not enjoying the most of the life you do have just to hopefully see the day where everything good we have now turns into a hellish unending nightmare? I hope it's not just so you can savor that single moment where you get to stand proudly on your bunker in your burned out nightmare of a world a scream 'I TOLD YOU SO!' at the top of your lungs to basically nobody.

Sorry I just don't get it.

How do you dispose of the waste?

saniflo unit pumps out shower , wash basin and other waste to a leach pit downhill.

that runs off the generator.

If the generator goes down there is a jabsco handpump that does the same thing only with more grunting groaning and cussin :)
and yes there are blast valves on the air filtration ( x 2 ) , and on the water inlet plus saniflo waste outlet so there are no messy surprises

Just skip the shower, you need the water for live support.

I'd take the 500 gallon diesel tank and make it a water tank too.

What really do you need the generator for? For the video surveillance? Lights? Do you have a battery back up system or do you intend to waste most of the diesel as heat?

Other people have other hobbies. Good luck with yours.

We had people here in the forum before they have been taken away by black helicopters. Dont suffer the same fate. Bunkering down at any other week, just in case, might prevent you from ever going camping again.

There are techniques for "showering" that require minimal water if any . Also "towel tablets" the size of a dime that pop up into wet towels for use as toilet tissue when you sprinkle water on them . Google them just for fun. Generator to run an induction cooker , as you don't use gas or any flame underground due to the carbon monoxide issue , generator also for shortwave / ham radio , recharging stored laptop, camera and phone in case those do come back online , water recycling with a grey water tank (shower and sink) can extend water use. Yes we do intend having an inverter and solar panels when other technicalities are better understood . Don't worry about those black helicopters , we just wave , we are friendlies

Nope, not my idea of spending my time.

Honestly do you think phones come back online after you have been asking for EMP protection?

You might want to sell your services to a space lab. In 20 years when we start settling Mars they will need all the knowledge you have.

Enjoy!

If you want to look for negative interpretations then go for it . its your life.

phones coming back in which parts of the country after what degree of event ?

assuming the entire cell network is wiped out over the whole country which i doubt.

its not a question i will try to quantify and i dont feel i need to.

No help for you there. If there is a serious EMP event to be concerned about, the phones will be offline for a long while. Maybe forever.

Learn how to use a fire while you can. Submitting signals with smoke might be the way forward if there is a forward after what you are trying to be prepared for. . .

Loved your Post, simply great.

GA

Hey Guys, what is the chance that this is the same AP with character flaws that we have at :-

"How to Find a Max Load for the Radio"

He shows similarly flawed logic, a good possible reason why he needs a radio after the Nuclear war has ended and similar unfriendly manners.....

I feel its a good possible chance!!! Far better than 90%!!

Nobody else would feel the need to start a blog Anonymously on such banal subjects.

These are Subjects that any normal person would simply ask openly using their normal Avatar!!!

Let us all know what YOU think!!

If you are really determined to tuff it out,you could revert back to vacuum tube devices like were used 30+ years ago.

They are immune to EMP.

The Russians used them in their MIG's in 'Nam.

Matter of fact,Russia is about the only country that still manufactures vacuum tubes.

Aside from the restoration of old radios,etc. ,there still must be a military and civilian

demand for them there.

Sure,vacuum tubes are power hungry,and not as physically rugged as solid state,but

they do have their redeeming qualities.

The old HAMS (Amatuer Radio) networks will be the main form of civilian

communication after an EMP in the U.S.A.

But all the remaining HAM operators will be preppers who survived and they won't want to talk to anyone in fear that they will give away their bunker location and get raided so all you will ever have for communications is paranoid preppers giving 2 - 3 second burst transmissions at random over days to weeks intervals so that no one can triangulate their signals and find them.

Personally if these people are paranoid now does any rational person think that after all hell breaks loose that they are suddenly going to have 180 personality changes when it becomes painfully clear their thoughts that everyone is out to get them are now actually justified and they really do now only have what's left their provisions to live on?

"The living would envy the dead" N. Khrushchev

Is that right? I thought it was a Herschel Shmoikel Pinchas Yerucham Krustofski quote (Krusty the Clown of Simpsons).

There's a lot of comments in every direction in this thread, and I don't have time to read them all (I leave for a 3-day weekend in 8 hours, and I *DO* need to get some actual work done) So I'll just toss out some general advice:

EMP shielding will protect the items within from an EMP blast (depending on the relative strengths of each. The 'bunker built out of buried steel shipping containers' tactic is actually pretty good for blocking EM, as long as the containers are properly bonded to each other), but that shielding will also block weaker EM intrusions, such as RF signals.

A coax cable running through the EMP shield will act as an 'antenna' channeling the EMP through the cable and into the equipment connected to it. An external power feed will do the same.

To keep the power going safely, the power lines and generating plant would need to be within the EMP shielding as well, and the security cameras would need to be within 'extensions' of the shield so they and their cables will not channel the EMP energy into the bunker.

Bottom line: you cannot have external power and video running into the bunker during the time you're expecting the EMP.

Although, if you had some signal converters to encode the camera's feed into fiber optic data, a glass cable does not conduct electricity, so it would be immune from EMP.

GA

I think they SHOULD build one .

with all the bells and whistles.

Not for its survival value , but for the same reason that it rains just after you wash your car , same reason that if you leave your umbrella at home it most certainly WILL rain.

These guys could be sponsored to build it as a preventative measure as sure as Murphies Law prevails , there wont be a war if you have a bunker .

Without knowing where the Anonymous Prepper lives, this is all moot.

If he lives in an urban area, he's dead, period. No doubts about that.

If, on the other hand, he lives in the middle of a large forest, or off grid (which I doubt) his largest immediate worry may be the local militia commandeering his food, fuel and ammo.

State List of Militia Groups - National Liberty Federation

I live in an urban area. I'd have to drive at least 10 miles to get "out of town" along with 150,000 other people who are trying to leave.Oh, no electricity, no gas, water, fresh food, cooing/heat.......................................

Im waiting for the next reality TV show.

Bunker Builders.

That boat sailed a while back:

Hummm, for some reason the "link inserter" isn't working for me, so you'll have to find it yourself, but it's called, believe it or not "Doomsday Preppers", and it's a "reality show" (they sure use that term loosely, don't they!?), and it shows on Nat Geo

If you want to find information on EMP protection for 110V AC look in the pages of this blog where you will find EMP filters and their circuit diagrams.
https://gridresilience.wordpress.com/

“Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back”!

The first line of defense in EMP protection begins with the grid coming into your house. In a new construction the power meter which is most likely a smart meter which has been known to cause fires, should be mounted on a pole or small building next to your house. The exterior circuit breaker box should have an EMP Shield device installed in the box, and the main wires should then go under ground to the circuit breaker box in the house. Another EMP Shield device should be installed in this box as well as all of the circuit breakers should be the new type with 30 to 36KV surge protectors built into the breakers. A ground needs to be located at the location of the exterior box and one for the box within the house. This is the beginning of your EMP protection, since these circuit breakers are rated for handling surges from lightening which produce currents higher than that of an EMP event.

EMP filters which are a combination of a differential common mode filter in series with a common mode choke filters all of which are designed to make a low pass filter to shield against the RF frequencies of an EMP blast that also have gas discharge suppressors combined with the filter should be used to all major appliances and electronics. The main electrical energy of an EMP blast occurs around 18 MHz with various other lesser amplitude RF energies and hence the electrical wires both of the power grid and those in the walls of our house act as antennas. The maximum expected voltage field strength is 50kV per meter into a free space impedance of 376.73 ohms per meter. If the energy can couple and transfer itself to wire efficiently then the maximum current induced in the wire will be 132.7 amps. A gas discharge device will effectively route this current to ground and survive to do it again since these devices are rated for far higher current capability.

In this circuit diagram there is a differential mode transformer T1 the rest of the inductors are chokes, do not use a transformer for L4 and L5 these must be chokes. The inductors should be rated for 15A or higher. The capacitors are rated 2 to 3 KV. The surge protectors are gas discharge types. This is placed inline with electronic equipment but you can also have these filters located at the breaker box in the house and then again where you electronics are plugged in.