Toyota's Hydrogen Fueled Cars

they've had a few of these on the road in Calif for years. they work but like a Tesla you can't just stop anywhere to refuel. the infrastructure is almost nonexistent for fueling. the engine is cool, the cars work but I doubt they'll ever catch on with the mainstream until fuel is cheap and easy

I think Iceland has (or had) a hydrogen fuel station, but I don't recall what kinds of cars had compatible engines. This was about 5 years ago.

Iceland is small enough to need only one. <wink>

Coal is "so 1973".

There are so many other energy conversion and storage techniques these days: solar-to-hydrogen? Wind-to-hydrogen? Wave-to-hydrogen? Hydro-to hydrogen? Solar-to-battery? Wind-to-battery? Wave-to-battery? Hydro-to-battery?

Among that lot, dino-fuels are clearly on the way out.

Hydrogen from coal and oil is a well established technology and is much less polluting that just burning gas. Hydrogen is a common feedstock in the chemical industry.

But thanks for sharing.

This is ultimately the way to go for a lot of people....Once the fueling structure for these vehicles is in place, they should be cheap to own....California is way ahead with the fueling structure build out...

http://www.cafcp.org/stationmap

Waste heat from the fuel cell needs to be harnessed to tweak overall efficiency, which is already quite good.....

http://phys.org/news/2015-07-boosting-gas-mileage-electricity.html#nRlv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXAf7MsuPjI

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2015/05/lack-of-fuel-limits-hyundai-hydrogen-car-sales/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57fSsbMOYDQ

The days of the combustion engine are limited.I doubt that. Until it becomes economically beneficial i don't see the end of gasoline.Also if you heat water up to a high enough temperature(solar) it takes less energy to split into H&O. I believe its around 3400 deg. F that it splits without electricity.

3400 Btu/lb; that must be really economical, rhymes with comical.

Nearly all current U.S. and most of the world's hydrogen production involves steam reformation of natural gas , which as we know is quite plentiful, at this time...

"

TEAM-METHANE REFORMING

Most hydrogen produced today in the United States is made via steam-methane reforming, a mature production process in which high-temperature steam (700°C-1,000°C) is used to produce hydrogen from a methane source, such as natural gas. In steam-methane reforming, methane reacts with steam under 3-25 bar pressure (1 bar = 14.5 psi) in the presence of a catalyst to produce hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and a relatively small amount of carbon dioxide. Steam reforming is endothermic-that is, heat must be supplied to the process for the reaction to proceed.

Subsequently, in what is called the "water-gas shift reaction," the carbon monoxide and steam are reacted using a catalyst to produce carbon dioxide and more hydrogen. In a final process step called "pressure-swing adsorption," carbon dioxide and other impurities are removed from the gas stream, leaving essentially pure hydrogen. Steam reforming can also be used to produce hydrogen from other fuels, such as ethanol, propane, or even gasoline.

Steam-methane reforming reaction
CH₄ + H₂O (+ heat) → CO + 3H₂

Water-gas shift reaction
CO + H₂O → CO₂ + H₂ (+ small amount of heat)"

http://energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-production-natural-gas-reforming

http://www.digipac.ca/chemical/mtom/contents/chapter4/steamreform.htm

If you separate the hydrogen from methane producing hydrogen and carbon dioxide, and then you oxidize the hydrogen in a fuel cell, don't you end up with the same amount of water vapor and carbon dioxide that would result from just burning the methane?

Maybe, but at less than half the efficiency....so on a miles per mmbtu you would see a big difference....

The cost of hydrogen fuel cell operation vs ICE compares favorably....the fuel cell is twice as efficient as the combustion engine....therefore only requires 1/2 the btu content of fuel per mile, to match costs... the cost per mmbtu are about equal now...

http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/12024_h2_production_cost_natural_gas.pdf

The days of the combustion engine are limited.
Well of course they are. But so are the days of any type of engine, including the Sol (our star). But those limits are pretty far out there.

Granted the ICE's domination of the automobile industry may end in our lifetimes (especially the younger folks on this forum), but in my mind, that's still not a foregone conclusion.

I just put my money on a down payment on the top of the line 4 door Toyota Hindenburg Delux XP Load.

Two older articles come to mind. At one time, I remember reading that the primary source of hydrogen was as a byproduct of producing chlorine , used for mass water purification treatment. Obviously that has changed. Two, that the best use for fuel cells were in the applications related to moving large and heavy masses, such as railroads, trucking, and ocean going cargo (container ships), and the like, that use large quantities of fuel. Again that may have also changed.

Texas City Disaster: And your point is?

Guess

silver painted vehicles get in more accidents?

You can never mention hydrogen as a fuel without someone bringing up a dammed airship that caught fire in 1937. There should be an equivalent to "Godwin's Law" applied to hydrogen. It's time to move on from 1937 - that argument just doesn't work anymore.

You are correct, I cant wait for my version of Lyn's "top of the line 4 door Toyota Hindenburg Delux XP". Besides, the hydrogen would have leaked out of that airship by now.

And how many gas cars have I seen on fire over the years? Four, including my own. Last Chev I ever owned.

If hydrogen can be produced from methane and natural gas, does this mean that oil wealthy middle easteners will again be riding camels and sleeping in tents ?