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ducon
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Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/21/2015 1:40 PM

Removal of the odor and color from the stack gas.
One of our client -Chemical Industries requires suitable equipment for the removal of the odor and color from their stack gas. (If you give me your email address, I will attach Gasifier details and complete gas and coal analysis for your further technical consideration of the removal of the odor and color from the stack gas).
In normal operation the client fully utilizes the gas from coal gasification for their heating purpose their process, while the coal is in full availability. The following gases are produced and fully consumed as per NFPA standards, with no emission problems (lab test report attached).
1. CO2
2. CO
3. H2
4. N2
However when their coal reserves become short (due to non availability of coal) the client, use the minimum coal to keep their refractory hot (otherwise they need a 14 days cycle to reheat their refractory and face other related problems. During this time when the client wants only to keep their refractory hot ( by utilizing the minimum coal) the gas produced for coal gasifier, is not used in the main process and therefore these gases (mainly methane and nitrogen and others as per lab test report attached) are vented from a stack.
Since the plant is now located in the middle of the city where the community and their neighbors complain that a color smoke is emitting form the stack of this chemical plant, also there are yellow color fumes emitting from the stack so they want to remove odor and color from this emission.
The client has eliminated the options of Flaring- This option was eliminated by client due the neighbor hood and community problems.
Keeping in view of above requirement , we solicit your valued support and kind consideration for providing us the your valued your valued guidance. We hope, that information provide are meaningful Information's from our side to make suitable proposal, however if you have some questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
The client is interested to know that which procedure is better and economical in solving their problem.
Friends - any help will be highly appreciated.

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RAMConsult
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#1

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/21/2015 2:50 PM

Interesting. So during keep-warm operation you burn just enough coal to keep the refractory up to temperature for a quick restart when coal becomes available, therefore the only product of combustion that you're interested in is hot air.

What type of coal, how is it burned, and what daily quantities are used? I'm a bit surprised to not see any sulphur in your analysis, especially since you have a yellow plume.

Although you indicate that your client doesn't want to use an exhaust combustor, is there an opportunity to excess air and over-fire to produce the same quantity of heat while consuming the objectionable odors, plus a bag filter house/ESP (Electro-Static Precipitator) combination to remove the dust from the air stream? Not cheap, but it is effective.

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ducon
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#13
In reply to #1

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 9:27 AM

RAMConsultant, glad you liked it to be interesting. Read my answer.

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lyn
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#2

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/21/2015 3:27 PM

I suggest that you use some of the money your company is being paid by your client to hire a consultant who will then be obligated to provide verifiable proof that what he tells you is correct.

Right now your paid presentation should begin with, "Well, we asked a forum on the internet what to do , and these are their recommendations."

I expect your client to say, "You what? You asked strangers on the internet? Is that what we are paying you for? Really?"
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/21/2015 3:49 PM

You asked strangers on the internet? Is that what we are paying you for? Really?"

Actually YES....

That is exactly what they are paying for!

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ducon
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#17
In reply to #3

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 11:24 PM

You had to follow Lyn. He was one of the first with CR4 , an extremely knowledgeable and respectable man with the highest 33000+ entries and good answers. I regret I wrote what I wrote because he disrespected me.

" a roll of duct tape with him" - last words of your slogan. Wish you used it for yourself and not blurted out.

I had left CR4 for this reason and just made a comeback after maybe 1 year. I am mostly on Linkedin and enjoy it the most because people really take part in engineering discussions unlike sarcasm here. Go check my profile "Muhammad Duja".

For others, really interested in engineering discussion check out all threads in various group on the Linkedin.

All sarcasm by everybody indicates only one thing - that they do not know the ____ I am talking about nor care to learn.

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ducon
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#15
In reply to #2

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 4:20 PM

I did not expect this reply from you for, i've known you long.

" The supply of fools will always outstrip the demand " - so rightly the last words of your slogan.

Regretfully, CR4 is no longer a discussion/idea sharing place anymore except insult and sarcasm is slowly creeping in.

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#4

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/21/2015 3:56 PM

Take your pick...

Wet Scrubbers (Wet FGD)

Wet scrubbers (or flue gas desulfurization) combine a mixture of lime or limestone and water with power plant flue gases to remove SO2 and acid gases. The mixture is either injected into the scrubber with the flue gas, or the flue gas bubbles up through the mixture. According to EPA, wet scrubbers achieve SO2 and acid gas removal efficiencies of 90 percent to 98 percent. Scrubbers in combination with selective catalytic reduction (SCR) for NOx control can remove up to 80 percent of mercury emissions.1

Dry Scrubbers (Dry FGD)

Dry scrubbers spray very finely powdered lime or other absorbents into a vessel where they combine with power plant flue gases to remove SO2 and acid gases. The resulting sorbent is captured with a fabric filter (also called a baghouse). According to EPA, dry scrubbers achieve removal efficiencies of 90 percent to 93 percent.2

Dry Sorbent Injection (DSI)

DSI systems inject sorbents, such as Trona (a naturally-occurring mineral), into power plant flue gas ductwork to remove SO2 and acid gases. The sorbent is then captured in the PM removal system (either an electrostatic precipitator or a baghouse). DSI systems achieve 40 percent to 75 percent removal.3

Low-NOx Burners (LNB)

Burners inject coal and air into power plant boilers. Low-NOx burners are designed to reduce the level of NOx formed as the coal is burned. Depending on the burner design, DOE reports that low-NOx burners achieve from 40 percent to 50 percent NOx removal.4

Low-NOx Burners with Overfire Air (LNB with OFA)

The removal efficiency of low-NOx burners can be improved by injecting air into the area above the burner. With certain burner types, LNB with OFA can achieve nearly 70 percent NOx removal.5

Selective Non-catalytic Reduction (SNCR)

SNCR systems inject ammonia into power plant flue gases to remove NOx. According to EPA, SNCR achieves about a 35 percent reduction in NOx emissions.6

Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR)

With SCR, ammonia is injected along with the power plant flue gas into a device that contains a catalyst to improve NOx removal efficiencies. According to EPA, SCR can achieve up to 90 percent NOx removal. SCR in combination with SO2 scrubbers can achieve up to 80 percent mercury removal.7

Activated Carbon Injection (ACI)

ACI systems inject finely-powdered activated carbon into power plant flue gases. The carbon is then removed by the PM control system (fabric filter or ESP). ACI can achieve up to 90 percent mercury removal.8

Halogenated ACI (HACI)

Halogenated ACI improves the mercury removal efficiency of ACI by adding a halogen (either bromide or chloride). Removal efficiencies of greater than 90 percent have been reported.9

Fabric Filter Systems/Baghouses

Fabric filters (also called baghouses) remove PM from power plant flue gases by capturing PM on fabric bags that are analogous to vacuum cleaner bags. The captured PM is removed by injecting high-pressure air into the bags or by shaking the bags. Fabric filters can achieve 99 percent to 99.9 percent PM removal.10

Electrostatic Precipitators (ESPs)

ESPs capture PM from power plant flue gases by passing the gases through a device in which charged metal plates are suspended. The PM is attracted to the plates by static electricity. ESPs are classified as either "hot-side" or "cold-side" depending on their location in the flue gas train. According to EPA, new ESPs capture 99 percent to 99.9 percent of PM.11

ESP with Baghouse

A baghouse is installed downstream of an ESP for improved PM control. Additionally, sorbents can be injected to capture mercury, and, in some cases, SO2 and NOx. These systems have been reported to achieve 90 percent mercury capture and, in certain cases, 90 percent SO2 removal and up to 30 percent NOx removal.12

Supercritical Boilers

Supercritical boilers operate at higher steam temperatures and pressures and, therefore, are more efficient than subcritical boilers. Supercritical boilers can achieve thermal efficiencies of up to 40 percent, compared with an average of 33 percent for the existing fleet of coal-fueled EGUs. Because of their efficiency, supercritical units can emit 10 percent to 20 percent less CO2 than subcritical EGUs.13

Ultra-Supercritical Boilers (USC)

USC boilers operate at even higher pressures and temperatures than supercritical boilers. American Electric Power's John W. Turk plant in Arkansas uses USC technology. The plant recently began commercial operation. USC units can achieve up to 44 percent thermal efficiency, resulting in CO2 emissions that are as much as 30 percent lower than those from the existing fleet of coal- fueled EGUs.14

Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC)

IGCC converts coal to a synthetic gas that is combusted in a combined-cycle system (a combustion turbine and a heat recovery steam generator). IGCC can achieve thermal efficiencies that exceed 40 percent, thus emitting as much as 30 percent less CO2 than the existing fleet of coal-fueled power plants. IGCC plants also have very low SO2, NOx, particulate matter and mercury emissions.15

Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)

CCS is a technology system to capture CO2 from power plants and permanently store it underground safely in geologic formations. Currently, CCS is estimated to add 40 percent to 80 percent to the cost of electricity generated by a coal- fueled electric generating unit. CCS can capture and store up to 90 percent of the CO2 from a power plant. No full-scale CCS-equipped power plants are operating in the U.S., although several small-scale demonstrations have taken place.16""

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ducon
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#11
In reply to #4

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 6:03 AM

Solar Eagle, long time. Thank you.

My choice is :

1. Quencher - gas cooled to saturation

2. Condenser/Absorber - after the gas passes through a packed condenser/absorber for acid gas removal and sub-cooling. In this step any HCI or SO2 in the gas stream is neutralized using caustic solution. Although not considered a particulate removal device, this will however, remove 10% to 15% of the inlet particulate.

H2S will be removal can be achieved with a second packeded bed scrubber using caustic or scavenger reagent.

3. Venturi Scrubber - The final process step undertaken by this for removal of remaining particulate in the gas stream. Water condenses on the particle on particles due to sub cooling in the condenser/absorber, causing their mass and diameter to increase, and enhancing particle removal. As a result the particles entering the Venturi scrubber is less than 3 microns, and allows the particle to be collected at a lower pressure drop.

4. Entrainment Separator - collects and separate the particles.

5. Wet Electrostatic Precipitator - the particle size and the outlet emission requirement may exceed the capabilities of the Venturi scrubber and for additional polishing step if required can be undertaken by a Wet electrostatic precipitator (WESP)

6. Extracting Blower to stack. Final extraction via blower to stack as clean odorless syn gas.

Though, i know all the answers but I posted it thinking it will be an interesting topic for discussions.However, regretfully there are members/big time Gurus who consider back slashing as a part of engineering discussion. There is a saying, " even a fool listens before criticizing".

My answer to the client was simple, that it was his fault that he did not keep 45 days of coal storage and ran out of coal and simply heating the furnace(with whatever available coal) else it will take 14 days to re-start. Since the cost of the above syn gas cleaning system will be 40% cost of the whole existing plant (which will be meaningless the investment since he is not going to recover anything from the exhaust of the stack), he should simply shut off and restart 14 days before his imported coal arrives.

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 11:46 AM

Ha ha, yes usually the case...However we must endeavor to persevere...onward and upward....

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#5

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/21/2015 4:50 PM

Just a "dumb" question from one who knows nothing about these systems. Why can't you use a cleaner fuel like natural gas to maintain the process temperature when the process is idle?

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 5:32 AM

The syn gas from the gasifer is a much cleaner gas than natural gas. Syn gas is generated from coal or biomass in a place where there is no natural gas available so you cannot use natural gas to maintain the process temperature since there is none.

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#25
In reply to #10

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/24/2015 12:13 PM

I was thinking along the same lines as Gringogreg (with the same disclaimers as to familiarity with these systems).

Could an auxiliary heater be used, whether powered by natural gas (trucked in?), propane, or electricity? None of which are malodorous or spew yellow clouds.

The syn gas from the gasifier is a much cleaner gas than natural gas.

I may be missing something, but, if syn gas is cleaner and available...then burn the syn gas.

If it is cleaner, but unavailable, then why not one of the above alternatives?

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/24/2015 12:52 PM

I don't really know if I can explain properly but I will try.

Recall the French Queen's (prior French Revolution) famous words, " if they don't have bread why can't you give them cakes". The late poor rich women did not know what was famine/hunger.

You have to study country to country to understand their problem.

Pakistan was once rich in natural gas and electricity but today has run out of it. There is power shut-down 3-4 hours even upto 8 hours daily area-wise. The Industries generate own power with gas engines since Government unable to supply. There is gas shutdown on Sundays and in winter over 3 months no gas. Absurd but true that in our Norther areas the factories are shutdown for over 3-4 months in winter. Yeah! you never hear such things ever. This is where you have cakes but we have no bread.

Eventually you have then to opt for "alternate fuel" which you can get from HFO/Diesel/Propane (3-5 times the price Vs natural gas) or solids(coal/wood) or biomass. You can operate a boiler generate steam or drive steam turbine for power. Now what to do with all furnaces/driers/gas engines ? How to drive them? So coal/biomass Gasifiers come in application. The gas you get is syn gas/LCV gas (Low calorific value gas) . Calorific value Natural Gas is 8600 Kcal/m3 Vs Syn Gas 1250 Kcal/m3. Irrespective low in Kcal/m3 nevertheless " gas" and clean gas.

It is not easy to opt for it because it involves a lot of logistic (acres of open space area for storage of coal/biomass. The right quality of low-sulphur & high heat content coal, conveying system, ash disposal system , environmental issues etc). Nevertheless, on a "No Gas situation" this then becomes the only alternate.

Hope it is clear now?

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/24/2015 1:02 PM

Thanks! That does clear up my confusion, as I was not aware of your limited options, as well as how self sufficient your client has to be even with plenty of coal.

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#6

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/21/2015 9:31 PM

Sounds like send us some of the money and we get this one fixed for you.

If you have some inquiries don't hesitate to PM us on this site, we are sure we could help you design a scrubber system for your specific requirements.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 4:19 AM

What is your purpose for being here? You don't know anything about this, so why are you commenting?

"If you have some inquiries don't hesitate to PM us on this site, we are sure we could help you design a scrubber system for your specific requirements."

You don't know that.

Since you are not very literate in English, maybe instead of spouting what seems like nonsense, you could tell us more about who you are and where you are coming from. That way, we might be more obliged to help you.

Your approach to being a part of this forum is irritating to most people here. You are going to have to give more detail about why you are asking a question.

Your reply to Fredski's post the other day should have gotten you kicked off the forum. I know you apologized (even that was weird, and was replete with blame-shifting - off of you), but that, with the fact that you don't seem to want to take the time to communicate sufficiently, leads me to believe that you are quite immature. If by age, I can understand. If you are over 30, there is no good reason for the attitude.

Got anything to say now?

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#18
In reply to #6

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 11:29 PM

"......but wisdom was far from me" Yes I agree how right you are. Wisdom is never around with people with sarcasm.

If you go to www.youtube.com and type "Gasfier" on search you will find the only available 3D Animated Video by me. That is, if you still wish the lost wisdom to return back to you and your other sarcasm friends.

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#7

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 4:05 AM

Ah so!

You wish for free engineering of a process from which your company will profit

handsomely?

A problem that cannot be solved by researching all sources on the internet?

A problem for which dilligent use of all available resources has yielded no answer?

A problem for which your presumed training cannot provide a solution,or even a

direction in which to pursue the answer?

So,you wish for all of this to be provided in a neat package and placed into your

out stretched hand and open beak?

You wish for others to do all of the work,while you alone collect the rewards of their labor?

No problem!

I am available on a consulting basis.

Simply dial 1-800 THNSTAAFL.(1800846772235)*

*If no answer,call +217 18007722351.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 4:27 AM

Simply dial 1-800 THNSTAAFL.(1800846772235)

There Haint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch?

Maybe some people talk like that, but get it right, man!

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 6:09 AM

"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child."Are you sure you deserve writing this???

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 4:52 PM

If you are a child,I apologize.

Basically,I will help those that help themselves,and avail themselves of available

resources before seeking a ready made solution,without first putting in the prerequiste

legwork.

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/22/2015 11:41 PM

It is not the "child" it is how low you can stoop.

If you care to read my reply I gave the solution.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/23/2015 12:45 AM

In your original post,you asked for help for possible solutions , not for comments on the problem.

Then, after garnering the efforts of others,you claim that you knew the answers all along,and this was just to be considered an interesting topic of discussion,not that you really needed anyone's advice.No...Not you...Neva.

Sure! You knew all of the answers before hand.

Right!ROFLMAO

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/23/2015 1:10 AM

I was not sure of the answer till RAMconsult gave me the ESP hint and Solar Eagle contributed tremendously with the choices. Matching theirs with mine gave me the answer. I am not the most brilliant guy in the world but prefer my friends in CR4 and Linkedin to give me part of their knowledge & experience and when I feel that I am not alone in the same thought, it is only then I answer to my Client.Honestly, i took no money yet because my advice is that he should shut down and wait to restart 14 days prior to his coal arraival from S.Africa/Indonesia.However, since Pakistan signed the Koyoto Protocol(USA has not) he and everybody else has to go for the Gas cleaning system. I apologise to you and everybody else what I wrote back.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/23/2015 6:38 AM

Apology accepted.

Rednek rule#6:Admit your mistakes,even if only to yourself.

A man afraid to apologize for fear of appearing weak is.

(Videri quam esse).

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/24/2015 12:58 AM

"I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow".

My slogan and it helps me getting stronger.

By the way, what are RedNek Rules # 1 thru # 5? Any after # 6?

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Removal of Odor and Color from Stack Gas in a Coal-Fired Gasifier

08/24/2015 5:45 AM

There are a total of 52 Rednek rules.

(Subject to addition as experience dictates.)

They will be revealed when appropriate.

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