Previous in Forum: 3 Terminal Shaded Pole Inductance Question   Next in Forum: Diesel Generator
Close
Close
Close
15 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6

Surge Arrester

11/12/2015 11:45 PM

Can anyone tell me the reason for surge arrester bursting in the 11kV line?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#1

Re: Surge arrester

11/12/2015 11:51 PM

A really big surge?

Bird poop on the arrester?

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 482
#2

Re: Surge arrester

11/13/2015 12:01 AM

It could either be

  • Lines short
  • Hit by Lightning
  • Swells
__________________
The doctor said "just one post or reply aday in CR4, take it or leave it". I said, "what does that mean?"
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 3)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#3

Re: Surge Arrester

11/13/2015 9:01 AM

There are multiple failure modes, the only reliable way to tell is to examine what's left; look for arcing, burning, tracking, how the shell blew apart, if the safety valve operated, etc., then check the system conditions at the time it failed, switching, lightning, protective device operation, etc.

Just remember, a burst arrester is a good thing, it's a sacrificial item just like a fuse.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Commissariat de Police, Nouvions, occupied France, 1942.
Posts: 2599
Good Answers: 77
#4

Re: Surge Arrester

11/13/2015 10:13 AM

I've got £5 that says the arrestor manufacturer can, Mildred.

__________________
Good moaning!
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#5

Re: Surge Arrester

11/13/2015 10:43 AM

My added WAG is this surge arrestor has not been properly maintained.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Surge Arrester

11/13/2015 12:46 PM

That should be classified as a SWAG since utility grade lightning/surge arresters are "install and forget" devices, they get as much maintenance as the conductors and insulators that they protect do. The only "maintenance" they ever get is replacement, unless they are part of a live-line cleaning procedure because they're in an area with a high environmental contamination potential.

They fail because they were improperly engineered, under-specified, over-worked, poorly manufactured, etc. Here's how power engineers view them, check out the bottom of page 9. No Heaviside equations required, all the hard work's been done for the newbies and whannabes.

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Old Member, New Association

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1639
Good Answers: 73
#7

Re: Surge Arrester

11/13/2015 12:55 PM

What was going on when it burst? Conditions are usually unknown when this kind of damage becomes apparent. Consequently, a mystery is born.

Were there any fried critters near the incident? Any tell-tale carbon on it? Have any nasty sun spots when this failed? Nuclear testing? Anything?

By definition, a surge arrestor provides a short circuit to ground during the event that caused it. Not unlike throwing up a brick wall in front of a speeding train. The wall will not make out so well after the train hits it. The train may or may not do so well depending on how thick the wall was.

I've never heard of surge arrestors being a problem at a generation station. Probably due to minimal impedance at the generator. Out in the field, all kinds of impedance is encountered.

Transients can be really ugly in a circuit that is highly inductive. Too little information for anything but guess work.

__________________
A great troubleshooting tip...."When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eastern Arizona mountains on Route 666 about a mile from God's country
Posts: 1676
Good Answers: 122
#8

Re: Surge Arrester

11/13/2015 7:26 PM

Because too high of voltage was applied to it due to a line voltage surge.

Or; The surge arrester has reached the end of it's service life.

__________________
They said; "Brain size?" I heard; "Train size?" so I said: "I'll take a small one, thank you."
Register to Reply
2
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#9

Re: Surge Arrester

11/13/2015 8:07 PM

I'm not kidding. I just had someone send me a blown fuse from a VFD and ask me, "Why did this fuse fail?" I ignored it, assuming it was a prank from an anonymous work colleague and I would get around to some kind of snarky response when I had time to waste. Turned out the guy was serious, and complained to my boss that I never responded to him. My boss of course didn't know what it was that this idiot asked me and when I told him, we had a laugh together. But I did have to respond. Here is what I said.

"Dear xxxx,I'm sorry for not having responded sooner, I was not sure your inquiry was of a serious nature.

Fuses are designed to clear (open) upon an excess amount of current flowing through them, excess being defined where the clearing point is plotted as a parabolic curve on a graph consisting of a time and current axis, with the shape of the curve based on the current squared against time (I2t). There is about a 99.99943721856% chance that the fuse did not in fact "fail", but rather performed admirably in the pursuit of its raison d'être by melting on the inside to stop the flow of excess current in the circuit to which it was assigned.

I did not actually cut the fuse open to observe the vitrified silica sand on the inside (which when mixed with the melted or vaporized fuse material, becomes commonly known as fulgurite), but I am reasonably sure that had I opened it, I would have been able to confirm it's existence, thus proving that the fuse did indeed do what it was supposed to do. As to what the cause was behind the increase in current that precipitated the event that ended the life of said fuse, I cannot even begin to speculate without a full accounting of all pertinent details surrounding the events leading up to the moment it happened. Being that you provided nothing of the sort, I cannot help you.

For a reasonable charge, including travel time and expenses, I would be happy to assist in the forensic evaluation of the scene of the crime against this poor hapless fuse. I have attached a field labor rate chart for your perusal, please respond with either a purchase order for my services and expenses, or an acknowledgement to myself and my employer (since you chose to involve them in this) indicating that my further services are not needed.

Sincerely,

JRaef " (real name used of course)

What do you think, too condescending?

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Surge Arrester

11/14/2015 5:31 AM

Perfectly put.

Sadly it probably went right over the head of the idiotic customer, but we here all enjoyed it fully!!

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 44.56024"N 15.307971E
Posts: 8277
Good Answers: 270
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Surge Arrester

11/14/2015 11:27 AM

I think I may have added that it was probably caused by an ID-10T error,which is common is such cases.

__________________
"A man never stands so tall as when he stoops to help a child." "Never argue with a stupid person.They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" "To create an apple pie from scratch, first you must create a universe"
Register to Reply
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#12
In reply to #9

Re: Surge Arrester

11/14/2015 3:18 PM

Of course, a burned-out motor and a non-blown fuse would more aptly fit the question of why the fuse failed.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3683
Good Answers: 89
#15
In reply to #12

Re: Surge Arrester

11/17/2015 9:39 AM

Exactly, fuses fail(1) when they fail(2) to fail(3), as I like to tell people unaware of the purpose of 'sacrificial components.'

Then I give them the footnotes:

  1. Fail: To not succeed at the assigned task.
  2. Fail: To not perform as expected.
  3. Fail: To deteriorate, disintegrate or otherwise spontaneously cease to be.
__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Energy Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Old Member, New Association

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1639
Good Answers: 73
#13
In reply to #9

Re: Surge Arrester

11/16/2015 7:56 AM

Bravo! I think you missed your calling! I am usually so overwhelmed by the stupidity of such a question that I can't think of a reasonable response.

As to whether it was too condescending, that would be in the eyes of the receipt just like it is when someone writes a stupid question here. I think the insult is really derived from the person feeling guilty for his ignorance. After all, I believe that this specific truth works in any language: "Ask a stupid question and you will get a stupid answer".

Unfortunately, it seems the stupid people are the ones left in charge after all the smart people figure out that they have no future in a company full of idiots.

Over the years, I've found that humor is the best way to deal with stupid questions, but it is a very slippery slope into humiliation if the words are not well chosen. That is not to say that a smart person can never be a smart-ass but one has to be careful of how often the stops are removed. People like to retaliate, so every response needs to be measured carefully. And it always helps to know the person, else their tolerance might be easily surpassed.

The checks I try to remember to use are this: (1) No editorializing or opinions, (2) Avoid inflammatory language (I struggle with this one), (3) If you don't know this person well, sugar coat everything no matter how much it makes you gag.

Always remember, even stupid people have feelings. Keep the loathing to yourself.

__________________
A great troubleshooting tip...."When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 406
Good Answers: 3
#14

Re: Surge Arrester

11/16/2015 6:57 PM

It did it's job. That is why it is call a surge arrester. Might have been a lighting strike nearby.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 15 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

adreasler (1); Andy Germany (1); Crabtree (1); HiTekRedNek (1); JRaef (1); Legolaz (1); lyn (1); Munster (1); NotUrOrdinaryJoe (2); RAMConsult (2); redfred (1); SHOCKHISCAN (1); Tornado (1)

Previous in Forum: 3 Terminal Shaded Pole Inductance Question   Next in Forum: Diesel Generator

Advertisement