Unplugging And Going Primitive

Here in Maine, it happens all the time! Most of us are well prepared, and those that are not, get help from those that are.

The difference between a guy in the Australian outback and someone in "civilized" society is they can survive, the rest can not.

Don't kid yourself. If all the power goes out you have NO water, NO gasoline, NO food that is not in a can. In Chicago, all the food and water will be gone in a week. Your car will run out of gas before you can get to any place where you might even have a SMALL chance of surviving. You can only carry so much ammo and all the animals will already been killed or run off before you get there.

FEMA and every other govt agency will be frozen by the hugs magnitude of this disaster.

Out west, in the desert we,ll all die of dehydration.

There will certainly be pockets of survivors but most will meet an untimely demise.

People never think of those necessary's

Unless, you lived on the farm, where you have potatoes (as well as other roots) in the basement, apples in cold storage, (better hope it happens in winter time, and you know how to fend for yourself. It will not be a party even if you know what your doing.

I PBS, I watch the documentary of a guy by the name of Richard Proenneke who left and went out to the live in back woods for most of his life, with just a plane coming once, maybe twice a year.

Very interesting, showed how he build his cabin and fireplace, which snowed that very night he finished his fire place. How he'd hunt, fish and his root cellar he made, as well as his refrigerator for his meat. As well as how he fashioned his cooking utensils.

In the wintertime, the snow itself, was higher then him, as hit showed the path him made to go out for firewood, out house, root cellar or get meat from his storage.

I recommend this, He had brought along a 8MM camera, and for him to set it up while he canoed off, or as he was hunting is unbelievable.

Then one really gets a prospective of living off the land.... even though there was a plane that came in with your basic supplies. (salt, sugar,... I think he even boil the sap for syrup.)

I grew up on an isolated farm in Ark. You could literally walk out our back door and walk for 20 miles without seeing a fence or a person.

Plenty to eat, if you could catch it.

I'm pretty handy in the woods and I MIGHT survive, in Ark. if I only had to worry about myself.

In Arizona, I'd probably starve to death, if not die of dehydration.

are you on the higher elevation in Arizona?

I was rather surprised how high the elevations are,... which I just found out a few years ago, ....

1,184 feet in my living room, so no.

Typical summertime high temperatures will be over 110°F for weeks at a time. Night time will cool around 10-20 degrees, depending.

Eastern and Northern parts of the state are higher. Flagstaff and the White Mountains are cold in the winter.

So all that may be left are farmers with good root cellars that know how to fend for themselves?

Was that a negative comment? I'm not seeing it.

nope, not at all... the post started off as far as going primitive,... as I experienced in my younger days... yes, I'd adapt... now not so much... the link I gave for Richard Proenneke, That documentary really held my interest....

The thing that bothered me the most is when I look at the scars on my hand and arms... being out in the wilderness around sharp tools may pose a problem... (But I work smarter now than I did when I earned??? those scars)

Now, I have to share a story,...

Again in my youth, I was talking to a girl... (in a tavern) and we were going back and forth on a position she had.....she was talking how much she would like to live in the jungle and sleep out under the stars... and rough it.

After a lengthy exchange,.... I gave up and left with a closing comment.... "you want to live in the jungle,... that's fine and dandy,... just keep this in mind. When you're living in the jungle like you say you want to, you become part of the food chain,.... and not on the upper levels."

I waited so she could rebuttal,... but she realized that she'd have to find a better way to get my phone number. ... .....

it days anytime...

Lyn-

..The purpose of my post is not to discuss my personal chances (of which you seem to have a firm grasp, so why question them at all?) for survival but to discuss primitive survival skills. I realize that it may be difficult to separate the two topics. (end of days and survival skills) What I'm really speaking about is the popularly enjoyed and well practiced art of primitive survival. i.e. the 'title' of the post is literal

The fact that decent survival skills can save your butt should the crap hit the fan is serendipity.

Del might like to know that there is a few pages on bow making that might give a chuckle or two. Wisely he notes that a bow created for immediate survival is not such a good idea as you may die of starvation long before the skill to create a proper bow and arrow will feed you. (unless you are Del) He then goes on to say that it becomes a viable tool (to spend time on the construction of) when you are part of a larger group or somehow have a well developed food chain.

For me it's about connecting with the past more than it's preparing for the future. There are also monumental returns in terms of health through natural fasting and well being ...through well.. being well.

So, based on my military training, pure primitive survival skills - assuming no implements or tools - boil down to three things initially... 1) finding water that is suitable to drink, 2) knowing what kind of things you can eat that do not require preparation... plants, grubs, etc., and 3) shelter from the elements and those things that want to eat you.

After securing the above... you 'improve your fighting position' and focus on refining acquirable resources to leverage what the environment you're in can provide. For example, you would not focus on a funnel fish trap if you weren't near a body of water that had fish in it.

Essentially, after the basic three items mentioned initially - it comes down to knowing how to leverage the environment you're in to your advantage. And, each different type of environment has its own set of unique challenges and a different priority/method of going about it.

Ok, fair enough. Maybe it was the part about, "what would happen if the power went out" that fooled me.

So, you're talking about spending a week or two "roughing it", I think.

Fine. Connecting with the past is a good thing to do.

I have read this book a few times and intend to dig it out and read it again soon...

An Island to Oneself

by Tom Neale (Author), Noel Barber (Introduction)

Thomas Francis "Tom" Neale (November 6, 1902 - November 27, 1977)[1] was a New Zealander bushcraft and survival enthusiast who spent much of his life in the Cook Islands and 16 years in three sessions living alone on the island of Anchorage in the Suwarrow atoll, which was the basis of this autobiography.

When I was 37-38,... I dated a girl who loved fishing. She was surprised to find out with my background, I never went fishing,.. or camping for that matter.

So opening day and for a few years after, When April came We were always out there the first day of fishing, I loved it....

We really didn't rough it, it was secluded, and we brought eggs and bacon... but waking up with it in the mid 20 degrees F, with frost on the tent (I had a air mattress btw) it was great, with the best part whether or not you caught fish, it was the smell of making bacon and eggs on the camp fire.

After the weekend, I looked forward to coming home to a nice warm bed.

So the point I'm making here is Unplugging And Going Primitive is a nice place to visit, but it not the life for me.

Well I live on the beach...so I have all the food and water I need right in the backyard....

One of the things most of these books never seem to touch on is that in a long term "power out" situation there are going to be lots of hungry, desperate folks wandering around once supplies in urban environments run out and you'll likely need to protect yourself and your essentials from them. That would be a priority right up there with water, food and shelter. It also wouldn't be long after the emergency starts as someone else pointed out.

So while you're learning about primitive living think about weapons and defensive positions and tactics. I'm a vet so I have rudimentary training in this. I'm also something of a prepper with survival supplies on hand. My current interest is silent defensive weapons. There's not much future if you attract unwanted friends with noisy firearms.

Lots and lots to think about. And a lot not obvious.

Now you're talking Zombie apocalypse situation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuVQ9nO_LSs

Non-zombie bipedal creatures would be much more dangerous in my opinion.

BTW, that guy in the youtube video is a maroon. Example; when he mentions hygiene products he should have stressed ODORLESS products. Nothing will get you killed quicker in these situations than being un-naturally smelly.

Imagine a world without CR4, then. Sheesh.

You need to get a spot on Bear Grylls show, or Fat Guys in the Woods. Eat those worms and insects.

Bear Grylls is a sham.

I witched his show on desert survival that he did here in Ariz.

Having wandered the Arizona desert for over 40 years on foot, dirt bike and 4WD, I can assure you he got lots of it wrong.

I live in Chicago, and I have a plan for If Society Falls.

I know of a place, about four hours away from the city in good traffic, where I'm going to hole up.

Others around here know of it too, and we'll be meeting there to wait out the Bad Times; there should be enough supplies and resources to keep things going for quite a while.

And no, I'm not telling any of you where it is. Secrecy is security.

Anybody read "The Road"? I think a lot of people would take the route of "The Woman" and then not have to worry about it anymore. I just can't imagine that things would ever get to the point where there was literally nothing to consume. If things really fell apart, for whatever reason, there would probably be a fairly large purge where people with one weakness or another died off and the strong hoarded things like crazy. A few years later nature would probably start to fill back in and you could support the existing populations without having to actively protect your stuff from others. I imagine that most of the human/civil rights progress would go back into the stone age. I have a friend that notices when I start to worry about things that don't matter and he says that we need a zombie apocalypse to really put things back in perspective.

Read William R. Forstchen's One Second After. It's downloadable for free (google it) and will wake you up.

Although I can appreciate the wanting to reduce one's own living costs and efforts there is a glaring problem I see with most every doomsday scenario that I have ever heard of.

What exactly happens that prevents the millions of people who presently work day in and day out behind the scenes keeping our infrastructures as a whole from continuing on as they did before the great disaster?

That is to say where do the people who run our power plants and refineries and utility systems at all levels go to or what exactly prevents them from going back to work putting things back together or from new people working to pick up where they left off?

I can see where the majority of people who live in large urban areas would be screwed but what about all of us who live in agricultural or other production environments?

I don't see farmers just laying down and dying or becoming Mad Max subhumans because of some major disaster nor do I see those who work to keep or power plants running and our utility systems working just tossing their tools in nearest river and walking away from their jobs and never looking back.

Where I live farmers will keep farming and anyone who has any capacity to work on rebuilding our infrastructure to get things back to what we are accustomed to will be out there doing their best to the best of their resources and capacities.

The road builders will be rebuilding roads, the oil field workers will be repairing and getting any oil wells they can get to work back up and running to supply those oil refineries that are able to run and anyone with half a brain and a will to survive will be finding a way to contribute in every other aspect of life and so on.

And above all every gun toting person who want's to have some degree of civility and comfort back will be working to keep the few raging hoarding idiots under control so those who are able and willing to rebuild our lives can work in some degree of peace.

At least that's what I would expect to see happening here. Life would be rough but I see zero logic in assuming that the vast majority of people are simply going to walk away from what they know how to do best and live like animals over putting as much effort as they can with whatever resources they can put together so that things can be rebuilt.

What happens to all those people,.... well, extinction comes to mind...

Of course, everyone thinks its not going to be themselves.... but, it wouldn't be a party.

I have enough things to worry about without worrying about situations that are not likely to occur within my lifetime...or ever really....This for me falls within the realm of UFO's, bigfoot, ancient aliens, and conspiracy theory's about all manner of things...If everybody would just concentrate on getting the real things right, the world I think would be a better place....$.02

I think the theory is that: Once society breaks down, there will be four groups of people:

1. The people who want to try and rebuild.
2. The people who will try to make do with what there is.
3. The people who will not be able to cope with the change and go insane.
4. The criminal element who will no longer fear punishment and will murder, rape, pillage, etc as they see fit.

Now groups 1 & 2 will pretty much coexist peacefully, in fact, there is not much ideological difference between them, unless other factors come into play, such as the 'rebuilders' wanting to start up a coal-fired plant to restore electricity to a used-to-be-a-suburb, and wanting to 'harvest' a nearby forest foe fuel when the coal supply runs out, facing off against the 'make doers' who want to protect the forest as a source of wild game to supplement the 'urban farming' that is still getting started in that used-to-be-a-suburb.

Group 3 is trouble for anyone nearby, and if violently insane, will likely need to be 'put down' for the protection of the rest of society.

Group 4 is the big problem. They're the street gangs, the 'bad cops on the force,' the wife-and-child-beaters, the drug lords, the aggressive racists. These are the people who will be trying to destroy what is left of society, not because they don't understand what they're doing, but because they believe that might is the only source of authority, and that they see kindness and cooperation as things to be exploited.

There's also a subgroup, call it 4a, the 'Warlords/Despots/Landlords.' They want to Rebuild or Make Do, but they want to do it on the backs of their 'slaves.'

Depending on how willing the people in Groups 1 & 2 are to resort to violence in self defense, they may or may not get wiped out, subjugated, or 'converted' by groups 3 & 4.

---

All that assumes that there are enough resources to go around. If there is competition, even groups who should be friendly towards each other can come to blows.

Farming does provide food to put on the table, but all it takes is one 'lean year,' or the discovery that the GMO crops will not grow without a supply of the 'vitamin supplement' that can't be gotten any more because some gang-bangers torched the plant that made it while they were looking for drugs, and now there's barely enough food for the family, and none to share with the starving pilgrims fleeing the horrors of the warlord-controlled city. Are these hungry pilgrims going to just tighten their belts one more notch and hope they can survive the march to the next village, or are they desperate and hunger-crazed enough to try and TAKE what little food there is, and eat the dairy cow and her calf, so they've got the strength to make it to the next town alive.

We seldom see the world going to hell the day after the disaster, unless the story is pure satire. What we normally see is what things are like decades or centuries after 'the big oops,' which, more importantly than the immediate death toll, caused a major disruption in the food production and transportation.

The day of the Big Oops, all the crazies come out, trashing the city infrastructures.

A few days after that, the gangs start acting more openly and aggressively, 'testing the waters' of the police response. Some smaller gangs are driven out of town by the larger competition, and hole up 'out in the wilderness,' taking over truck stops, highway rest areas, or poorly-defended farms, and become modern 'highwaymen,' raiding truckers for their cargo, disrupting food deliveries to the cities.

A few weeks later, neighbor turns on neighbor, as the perishables are all gone in the cities, and even the non-perishables are starting to run low. A man beats an old lady to death so he can get her hoarded supply of canned cream corn and 'potted meat' (cat food) so his young daughter won't spend another night whimpering in her bed from the hunger pangs.

The next day, two men out foraging in the nearby forest preserve shoot each other, because they both misheard the rustling of the leaves from the other's walking as someone trying to sneak up on him.

People stop going to work because their say job selling sweaters/broadcasting the news/performing maintenance on the power plant is not paying in what they need, FOOD, so the 'luxuries' stop as people are too busy foraging and/or gardening to keep from starving. Now the electricity runs out, and the water pipes clog or run dry, and the natural gas stops flowing, and life just became a bit more tougher. Perhaps a few more people go insane at this point.

The reason people talk about 'fleeing the city' or 'going mobile/off the grid' when 'society falls' is, first and foremost, to get away from the crazies and criminals who will be crawling out of the woodwork. After that it's "We need food to feed our kids, and these people won't take our money and won't give us food, and we've TRIED to be fair and given just compensation but these GREEDY PEOPLE just want our LITTLE GIRL to starve to death while they sit back and laugh at us and- screw it, we need to EAT and they're the only ones for MILES around with food that they WON'T SHARE, so we're just going to have to TAKE IT so Suzy won't starve and if they get in the way of my LITTLE GIRL not going to bed hungry tonight then so help me I'll RIP THEIR ARMS OFF and BEAT THEM WITH THE BLOODY ENDS!

And you think the farmers will just sit back and take it? Well, assuming they're not the 'total non-violence Amish, there's going to be a shotgun or hunting rifle aimed at the chest of this raving loonie trying to break in and steal the food right off of little Timmy Junior's plate.

--

You say people don't turn into animals? go to one of those 'tough love' fat camps, one with a good track record of successful treatments, and just watch these people who aren't even really starving, just hungrier than they've been in years, just watch them verbally tear into each other and anyone else who crosses their path.

What I am saying is that in the total track record of all of human history there have been some massive setback points yet every single time we as an overall species picked up what was left and figured out how to rebuild it better than what it was before everything fell apart. Granted some instances took decades to a century or more for us to get back up and going but in every instance we always came back with improvements on whatever practices and technology was used before.

Natural disaster, disease, famine, political and military meltdown, combinations of all of them at once, whatever. We still had enough good people with good intentions and the will to do what needed to be done for the greater good and the want to pick things up and start over in hopes to make it better the next time around.

As nasty as a few people can be the majority of those who uphold the value of the greater good always keep things in check one way or another. It's why a set of laws and their enforcement are always put in place at the very beginning of any societal rebuild.

Find resources and protect them then find more people who will work with you to improve those resources and protection systems.

That is human nature and our basic in built societal design. If it wasn't we wouldn't be where we are now would we?

That's true, every 'dark age' ends, and ends in a 'Renaissance.' However, when people are talking about 'going primitive,' or 'going to the bunker,' they're talking about trying to survive the first few years of the Dark Age, not trying to live like that forever. The sane will always try to rebuild, but first the crazies and the criminals need to be dealt with/chased out/put down so they don't keep tearing apart what is being rebuilt.

I'm reminded of another plan I was working out for 'surviving the breakdown of society,' one that should work well in the Midwest, where we have a large population of German Friends (aka, 'the Amish'):

1. We set up settlements ringing the Amish enclaves, these will be populated by farmers and other craftsmen, who will be the main 'trading partners' and 'humble apprentices' to learn how to tend the land and survive without modern conveniences. The people in this ring should all be the types of people acceptable to the Amish communities and way of life.
2. Outside that, we have the communities of people who will be working on 'restoring' the 'lost tech,' and experimenting with crop and livestock methods that may not meet Amish approval.
3. Outside that, we have the 'communities' (more like forts) of 'rough men eager to do violence on our behalf,' who have the job of keeping the crazies and criminals from getting into the 'protected space.' The people here would never be welcome in Amish society. They would be tolerated, as all 'English' are tolerated, but it would not be good for the stress levels of our Plain-living tutors to have these people strolling about deep within the 'protected zone.'

Note that all the defenses are to 'keep the bad out,' not to 'keep the good in.' Nobody is held against their will, all residents of the 'protected area' are free to come and go as they wish, and in time, the 'defensive ring can be dismantled, with the people from that area and any volunteers from the other 'rings' founding new communities a bit further out, helping to spread 'civilization' back across the continent.

That's more evidence of your well thought out plans in the event that big things happen.

Be cautious. First you said that you might "hole up" about 4 hours away from the city (in good traffic). Now I can also add Midwestern Amish communities as a possible location to find your bunker.

"I'm not telling any of you where it is. Secrecy is security."

You may as well put a pin in google earth and send out "end of the world Party!" invitations.

As for the plan laid out in your last post? I'm pretty good with the whole idea, but I would like to think it possible to find people for the out most communities that would be rough indeed, but also intellectually capable people who are willing to do what whatever necessary on everyones part. There would be instances where these same people would be called to assist in all areas of the community including the central zone. I fear that using men who are simply eager to do violence on our behalf is far to close to those I would want to be free of. I know that's a step up from where we've been historically, but when the chance to start over presents itself should we really be calling on the goon squad for protection?

Now that i say it..The goon squad is in the business of protection and for that part can be a little difficult to argue with. Add the fact that there are friends and family members who might be well suited to the position and there's the Catch 22

...I'm going back to my squirrel nest!

Who is to say that my two posts refer to the same area?

Who is to say that my two posts refer to two different plans?

Which is true? Both? Neither? Could I have plans I'm not letting on about? Are there secrets I even keep from MYSELF? Am I merely playing a role, acting the fool and being a Devil's Advocate just to keep the conversation interesting? Have I made a smart-alek comment referring to coffee lately? What about my penchant for footnotes? Should that absence be notable, or the fact that I have typed a short 'wall of text' paragraph hen I would normally have spaced it out to control the 'pacing' of my speech?

Secrecy is security, but so is misdirection.

Perhaps a quote from a popular British show about a time traveler might clear things up:

River Song: "Rule number one: the Doctor lies."

Amilia Pond: "Got it."

River: "Good. Rule number two: I lie too."

Amilia: "Right. Wait, does that mean you were lying about the Doctor lying?"

River: (holds a finger to her lips in a 'shush' gesture) "Ah-ah-ah. Spoilers."

Note to self: Take control of the coffee after securing the drinkable water.

"Note to self: Take control of the coffee after securing the drinkable water."

You BASTARD! My one weakness and you capitalize on it! (Unless I only drink coffee at work, or the whole 'coffee addict' bit is just part of a 'character' I play to cover up my Mt. Dew addiction.)

JE in Chicago,

I'm thinking strongly about getting away from it all for a few days, off the grid, just to get away from all the crazies that have come out of the woodwork here in this thread.

I recall with very fond memories those times when I'd jump in my macho 4WD and disappear into the desert for a few days.

1978-79-80-81 I had a fully stocked with food, sealed military rocket can (think giant ammo can) in my camper shell and all the necessities at all times so I could just head out to the desert or the mountains, with or without company.

Those were great times. But they are long past for me.

WOW!.. The post has gone a little off topic. Some of you have suggested some great reading (thanks Tom, Beto, Corb) and I know I have a movie night is set up soon.. Thanks Phoenix.

Lyn- One time when I was in AZ I had my 4X4 Durango and was shut out by snow in the last week of May from driving my favorite little road just East of Sedona, but I made up for it elsewhere! Talk about roughing it.

I don't know where to begin with the rest of the responses.

Nothing much about the joys of primitive survival.

Thanks for contributing the basic knowledge that man is the most feared and dangerous creature of the day or night. nothing really new there. It's a fact mentioned in any comprehensive survival guide.

Even birds have the sense to watch out for their neighbors.

Adreas- You sound like you have a plan.. a solid one, but you lost me with the comment about beating people with their own bloody stumps.

Phys - WHy in the hell would I want to do those things? Thanks anyhow.

One of my favorite memories of Northern Arizona in the wintertime back then was when I was asked to pull a US Forest Service Ranger's Dodge Power Wagon back onto the highway after he tried to pull a stuck motorist out of a snow bank and got stuck too.

Oh, the stories that brown Chevy could tell.

A talking Chevy! How modern for the late 70's. The joy of pulling out a stuck motorist must be compounded greatly in such a situation.

It sound like you had a nice kit in the Chevy. It's amazing how hard it can be to get way and do a lot of nothing. It's perfect to be able to do it at the drop of a hat.

I've been a Prepper for years, ever since my Ranger days, where they taught you all the good stuff how to survive, primitive style.

Glad to see some are awake here, which means those who are are better equipped to survive. Those who aren't will perish when the SHTF.

IMO, it's entirely possible for a deliberate EMP attack, cyberattack, or a Mass Corona Ejection to occur.

The Congressional EMP Commission back in 2004 (with subsequent revisions) stated that at least 90% of Americans would perish within the first year following an EMP event and the electric grid gets fried to a crisp.

Are you Prepared? If you want to learn more, look for some of the Prepper pages on Facebook and join like-minded folk. There's more to it than stocking up beans and bullets and MREs....

Learn the Law of the 6Ps: "Proper Preparedness Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! Don't wait for the SHTF to start learning how to do something, like building a shelter, starting a fire the primitive way, and using methods to secure safe drinking water....

I just watched a documentary about a ice storm that knocked out electricity in an area in Montreal for 5 days back in the mid 90's,.... people that had gas or electric heat suffered, the ones that heated with wood run out and was burning their dining room tables ands other furniture....

It seems there are people that fail to see the consequences of an outage for more than a few days.

I've been through several hurricanes down here in Florida, and lost power for a couple of weeks at times...Living without the A/C was by far the hardest thing to deal with, even though as a young lad we had no A/C, but we would play in the sprinklers everyday, or go swimming....but really after a disaster everybody is so busy cleaning up and repairing everything there is no time to sit around and contemplate doom....that's reality....and everybody was helping everybody else and sharing whatever they had, a disaster like this brings out the best in people, at least that's been my experience....