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Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 12:44 PM

Hello everybody:

On specifications on the fire protection system for alternating current Generators for hydropower plants, for some cases it is indicated that should be provided a water spray system but, in other cases, the only protection specified against fire is the CO2.
What are the criteria for deciding if one or the other is the most appropriate system chosen?

Thanks for your inputs.

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#1

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 12:47 PM

Safety...

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#2

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 12:55 PM

Local codes are the first place to check.

Next stop will be the manufacturer of the dynamo for their recommendation, then

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages

I'll give you a little hint. NFPA 79 is a good place to start and then you might want to peruse NFPA 850.

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#3

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 1:03 PM
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#4

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 1:45 PM

Water and electricity don't mix. Guidelines can be found in your local codes as to the suitability of different systems in different areas of the plant.

In some cases you need to weigh up cost benefits of more expensive less damaging solutions compared to cheaper solutions that will damage equipment in the event they are deployed or potentially injure or kill anyone trapped in the area when they are deployed, (eg- water, gas).

Consider aerosol generators instead. Much, MUCH safer to equipment and staff but it has a more expensive up-front install cost, however much lower maintenance and replacement cost if deployed (so will save you money and down time in the long run).

http://www.dspa.nl/

Jack - And yes, I sell these too.

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#5

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 2:18 PM

Hello everybody:

Thanks to all for your comments.

Robin, I have already perused the code NFPA 851 Recommended Practice for Fire Protection for Hydroelectric Generating Plants.

I beg your pardon but, I agree more with the direction taken by Jack when answering my questions.

I think that despite of the codes, the decision finally might be based on economic reasons.

So long.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 3:30 PM

It does not matter one iota what you think is right. What matters is what are the relevant codes for the location. Depending on what the local code specifies the fire fighting system can be CO2, river water, or even design things to just burn themselves out as people escape. There is no single method but following the local standards.

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#10
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Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 5:57 PM

It generally takes longer and is more expensive to engineer based upon solo opinions, and usually gets clients' backs up. Using the local codes instead is rather quicker and cheaper for all concerned, especially when backside-covering is required.

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#11
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Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 6:01 PM

You do realize that 851 has been rolled into 850, yes? Ignoring local codes at your own risk. Your insurer will want to know what you are doing as well. To each their own.

Cheers!

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#12
In reply to #5

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/10/2016 9:55 AM

ELEMAN,

You are correct in your decision. Do not pay attention to the conflicting recommendations of Codes and Standards from foreign countries.

Use you own best judgment in this decision. Be aware that many of the older hydrogenation plants in other countries do not incorporate all of the features of the modern NFPA standards.

An engineering decision based on economic reality is best ....

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#13
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Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/10/2016 10:42 AM

I suspect that this arrogant attitude has killed more often than it shows a local code to be flawed.

I see clearly why one would post this kind of comment anonymously, coward.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/10/2016 1:11 PM

That is dangerously incompetent advice.

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/10/2016 1:41 PM

Use you own best judgment in this decision

Local codes and standards must be followed regardless, but they generally allow a choice of multiple solutions allowing functionality and cost considerations to be addressed based on customer budget and needs. Ignoring them and doing your own thing is pure folly.

Be aware that many of the older hydrogenation plants in other countries do not incorporate all of the features of the modern NFPA standards.

I am not fully up on all the applicable NFPA standards, but if they are anything like our local standards then new plant needs to comply with the current code, regardless of what old existing plant may still legally comply with (what we would call a 'grandfather' clause).

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#17
In reply to #12

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/15/2016 5:09 PM

I agree with every reply to this post. The advice you are giving is wrong and bordering on criminal.

Use you own best judgment in this decision. Be aware that many of the older hydrogenation plants in other countries do not incorporate all of the features of the modern NFPA standards.

It is not a hydrogenation plant it is a hydrogeneration plant. You can't even get that right.

Begone, dumba$$

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#6

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 2:28 PM

Cost and real estate primarily.

Both systems, properly designed, will be effective. It can be argued that CO2, being a 3 dimensional agent, will extinguish a fire faster than water, a 2 dimensional agent.

A CO2 system will cost much more than a water system.

A CO2 system (either low or high pressure) will take up a substantial amount of floor space.

Other considerations:

A CO2 system can also extinguish life.

A CO2 system will cause no damage to equipment, property, etc., resulting in little down time of plant. This might not be true for a water system.

You will have to have the CO2 system recharged after use.

If using water, is the existing water supply sufficient? If not, is there money and space for a storage tank?

There are other considerations, but those are the biggies.

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#8

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 3:34 PM

The best source of advice is surely the organisation supplying fire indemnity insurance cover for the facility. And this organisation is on the telephone. So do let the forum know how those telephone calls went, please.

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#9

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/09/2016 4:52 PM

<Beam me up, Scottie>

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#16
In reply to #9

Re: Fire Fighting System for Hydrogenerators

02/11/2016 5:14 AM

Aye, Cap'n.

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Anonymous Poster (1); Brave Sir Robin (2); ELEMAN (1); jack of all trades (2); lyn (2); Mikerho (1); PWSlack (3); redfred (2); SolarEagle (1); Tornado (1); WJMFIRE (1)

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